536 réponses à ce sujet

[Marta Rio]

Em23 wrote...
So why couldn't they give a straight answer?

(Pun intended?)
Because Stanley Woo already pretty much gave us this answer (although he was not as tactful as Collider):

Collider wrote...
They do not owe us any romances in the first
Mass Effect game to begin with, yet they did and even included a
lesbian romance. That is EXTRAORDINARY. Most games with romance don't
have this in the nth degree.
Bioware is not the government. They
are not obligated to provide you with equal or any content of any
sexual orientation.

And we all know how well that went over...

EDIT: Now that I look up the quote again, Mr. Woo was talking about nudity, not homosexual romances.  Although he did reference the "game development not being a democracy" thing.  My point is that when Bioware does give a direct answer to a question, without carefully wording it, people tend to get upset.

Modifié par Marta Rio, 06 avril 2010 - 12:55 .

[TMA LIVE]

What they're saying is the usual PR bull you'd expect, aka dance around the question without giving an answer, while giving you some useless bull****. But I think the real answer is what Casey was trying "not" to 100% say, which is, it'd ruin the game if you truly could romanced "anybody" on the Ship (aka 7 or 8 romances for your one character, including past romance), with 3 gay Male/female romances being the same as if you were of the other sex. As for "defined" characters, he means, this character isn't gay. As much as you like a person, in real life, people don't swing both ways because you're "you". They are defined as being "this" type of person.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 06 avril 2010 - 12:59 .

[Nightwriter]

jlb524 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Could you tell me about what you found offensive? I was just thinking about this, actually, and it occurred to me recently that there were a few homosexual references in the game, but not many of them exactly good...

Like the Morinth/Nef thing.

Here's my post in this thread...

jlb524 wrote...

The thing that gets me is, there is
lesbian sex references in the game already. However, I feel these are
used in some pretty damn offensive ways.

First, there's the Kelly
Chambers fling that devs have pretty much stated isn't serious. Plus,
just look at how much respect she gets on these forums as a bisexual
woman. Way to positively represent bisexual women, BW!

Second,
you have Jack mentioning past sexual relationships with women. Is it
because she's seriously attracted to women? No!! She's straight or
something! It seems like it's just there to make her past seem more
'edgier' and 'troubled'. 'Oh, look! She's such a bad girl! She's
straight but she used to sleep with WOMEN!! *gasp* Don't worry
fellas, she's over that phase in her life and only needs a studly man
now!!'

Don't even get me started on the Morinth/Nef
thing.

Oh, ok, I see what you mean. Sorry I made you repost that. Probably should've just paged back...

You know, I didn't really understand from what Bioware wrote what their exact reasons were. Were they saying time/developing constraints again? They sort of made it sound like they had to decide what they were going to put in and what they weren't, and that they decided this had to go.

[Collider]

@marta: Indeed, there is lesbian content in ME2. ME has lesbian content too.

And guess what? ME3 will have lesbian content again, even more so considering Liara will come back in a big way. It's mind boggling how much of victims some people are acting like in this thread.

[Collider]

Nightwriter wrote...
Oh, ok, I see what you mean. Sorry I made you repost that. Probably should've just paged back...

You know, I didn't really understand from what Bioware wrote what their exact reasons were. Were they saying time/developing constraints again? They sort of made it sound like they had to decide what they were going to put in and what they weren't, and that they decided this had to go.

I think it was fairly clear from the way they spoke of choices, variety, and defined characters that there are saying that they decided that certain characters were not bisexual. I would consider 50% heterosexual and 50% bisexual squad members as having more variety than everyone being bisexual.

[Ziggy]

Collider wrote...

Em23 wrote...
So why couldn't they give a straight answer?

This is a business. They have to consider PR. Going into extremes either way will be bad for their public record. Just be happy there is homosexual content to begin with. Most games don't have even mention homosexuality.

It's a step in the right direction but equality is worth fighting for and there's nothing to loose by trying.

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...

Bioware is not the government. They are not obligated to provide you with equal or any content of any sexual orientation. Don't act as if they giving you the middle finger.

They're not obligated to provide us with anything, but we're asking for it b/c we want it.  We're angry b/c they are giving us B.S. reasons for why this wasn't included.

To say there are no positive lesbian content in ME2 I wholly disagree with. Kelly? Samara? Liara?
Samara is a freaking PALADIN. Devoted to justice and good. And she happens to like women. Liara kisses femshep if femshep romanced her.

I think the negative far outweighs the positive.  Kelly is not positive...just look at how's she's treated on these forums.   Liara is from ME1 and her romantic content in ME2 was just about nil.  The Samara romance fell flat.

I'll admit in the past BW did a good job with homosexual romances and content.  I am only critiquing the current direction they seem to be going with this.  This has nothing to do with there past games that featured homosexual content (JE, ME1, DA).

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Casey ****ed up. PG-13? Rrrrrriiiiiiiiight.



Although Ray was very honest. Avoid the controversy of ME1 again. Can't say they didn't have their reasons. Dragon Age I think they took the risk. It was a new IP.

[jlb524]

Nightwriter wrote...

Oh, ok, I see what you mean. Sorry I made you repost that. Probably should've just paged back...

You know, I didn't really understand from what Bioware wrote what their exact reasons were. Were they saying time/developing constraints again? They sort of made it sound like they had to decide what they were going to put in and what they weren't, and that they decided this had to go.

I think it comes down to the fact that ME2 is their attempt with the ME series to gathering 'mainstream' appeal and to grab shooter fans, so homosexuality must be left out.

He's saying these romances were to be 'PG-13' and if homosexuality was added they'd be 'M-rated' and unnacceptable to the 'mainstream'.

[TMA LIVE]

jlb524 wrote...

He's saying these romances were to be 'PG-13' and if homosexuality was added they'd be 'M-rated' and unnacceptable to the 'mainstream'.

(looks at box) Rated M for Mature....

[Nightwriter]

Collider wrote...

Some of you are acting disgusting. Bioware is not being homophobic or intolerant. They do not owe us any romances in the first Mass Effect game to begin with, yet they did and even included a lesbian romance. That is EXTRAORDINARY. Most games with romance don't have this in the nth degree.

Bioware is not the government. They are not obligated to provide you with equal or any content of any sexual orientation. Don't act as if they giving you the middle finger. This is Bioware we are talking about - a company which has provided homosexual content both between males and females, that goes beyond the simplicity of the SIMS, fully fleged romances.

To say there are no positive lesbian content in ME2 I wholly disagree with. Kelly? Samara? Liara?
Samara is a freaking PALADIN. Devoted to justice and good. And she happens to like women. Liara kisses femshep if femshep romanced her.

I try to see it from their perspective. How would I feel if all my chances at romance were removed from my videogame? Sure, they have Liara, but where is she in ME2? Sidelined, so that the hetero romancers could get a chance to boink some more people.

Obviously I don't personally feel this way, but I can see how they would. By your very argument homosexual players don't get to see homosexual romances in other videogames EVER. One of the only dev companies who does it is Bioware, and, yes, they've come to expect it, and rely on it. They get no chances anywhere else.

So I can actually understand where the hostility might come from, even if it can be quite intense - with some.

[Onyx Jaguar]

He misquoted himself. ME 2 I bet without enough pressure could be rated T (if it wasn't for melting Kelly/Lilith) instead of M. (same with the Halo games actually). M = $$$

[Marta Rio]

scyphozoa wrote...

sigh, I don't even care about the issue of sexuality but I hate the idea that I can literally shoot the brains out of the skulls of thousands of enemies in ME2 (and see the brain splatter) but the topic of sexuality is some how more inappropriate than gore and violence.

and why is Bioware making a pg13 game at all? Please focus on your core audience that is well over the age of 13.

American puritanical roots FTW!
But seriously, I agree...the game's rated M, it says so right on the box.  If they don't want to put certain content in there for other reasons, then fine, but why cater to a PG-13/Teen crowd, when the game's already squarely in Mature territory?

[Collider]

jlb524 wrote...
They're not obligated to provide us with anything, but we're asking for it b/c we want it.

Well that's obvious.

We're angry b/c they are giving us B.S. reasons for why this wasn't included.

What do you expect from a business? Being terribly honest about EVERYTHING they are asked is not sound commercially. It is very typical and standard for businesses to lie and hide things from their audience. You can expect it from just about any company of any significant size. Why does it matter if you know their reasoning? They are also not obligated to lay their heart out on a table for you to examine. I also basically got the impression from this interview that they basically said that some characters are bisexual, some are not. Is that not good enough for you?

I think the negative far outweighs the positive.  Kelly is not positive...just look at how's she's treated on these forums.

Did you do her romance? How she's treated in the forums should not matter to you, use your own judgment rather than the judgment of others if you haven't done so. I highly doubt that her romance is as despicable as some say. It's just popular to denounce her for some reason.

Liara is from ME1 and her romantic content in ME2 was just about nil. 

Still positive.

The Samara romance fell flat.

Just because the romance did not progress does not mean it was not a positive rendition of lesbian relations. If you are not talking about that in regards to saying positive versus negative, then reclarify.

I'll admit in the past BW did a good job with homosexual romances and content.  I am only critiquing the current direction they seem to be going with this.  This has nothing to do with there past games that featured homosexual content (JE, ME1, DA).

??? Their current is direction is FANTASTIC. Look at their older games and then look at their newer, you will see that their games are becoming much much more accessible for LGBT players. I don't get the outcry over one single game.

[jlb524]

Nightwriter wrote...

I try to see it from their perspective. How would I feel if all my chances at romance were removed from my videogame? Sure, they have Liara, but where is she in ME2? Sidelined, so that the hetero romancers could get a chance to boink some more people.

Obviously I don't personally feel this way, but I can see how they would. By your very argument homosexual players don't get to see homosexual romances in other videogames EVER. One of the only dev companies who does it is Bioware, and, yes, they've come to expect it, and rely on it. They get no chances anywhere else.

So I can actually understand where the hostility might come from, even if it can be quite intense - with some.

Thanks, I'm glad someone who is not a homosexual is trying to see things from our side of the fence.  It's pretty hard to find decent homosexual romantic content that is handled maturely in most media, especially video games.  Now, a company that has provided it for us in the past seems to be going in the opposite direction....taking out the good stuff and replacing it with content I personally found offensive.  Plus, they're insulting us with B.S. P.R. reasons for this change in direction.

[Collider]

Nightwriter wrote...
I try to see it from their perspective. How would I feel if all my chances at romance were removed from my videogame? Sure, they have Liara, but where is she in ME2? Sidelined, so that the hetero romancers could get a chance to boink some more people.

First of all you are assuming that it was sidelined just for heterosexual players. Liara was sidelined because she could not be a squad mate, so she could survive. Second of all, not all of their chances of romance were "removed" from the video game. Literally, there is lesbian content with Liara, Shiala, Samara, Morinth, and Kelly. That's far from removed.

So I can actually understand where the hostility might come from, even if it can be quite intense - with some.

I think they are unjustified. Some people are acting as if their human rights are being taken away.

[DirtyVagrant]

Shandepared wrote...

In an age of designer babies with genetic engineering exactly how many parents are going to choose to have homosexual children?

<_<

[Onyx Jaguar]

DirtyVagrant wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

In an age of designer babies with genetic engineering exactly how many parents are going to choose to have homosexual children?

<_<

Also with Genetic engineering there wouldn't be a point to having straight children. 

EDIT:  toned down the anger

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 06 avril 2010 - 01:16 .

[Collider]

rynluna wrote...

Collider wrote.
??? Their current is direction is FANTASTIC. Look at their older games and then look at their newer, you will see that their games are becoming much much more accessible for LGBT players. I don't get the outcry over one single game.

That's your opinion but if you ask most of the players who happen to be LGBT, they will disagree with you. 

Mass Effect
Lesbian content with the Consort and Liara
Dragon Age Origins
Lesbian content with Leliana and other NPCs
Gay content with Zevran and other NPCs
Mass Effec t 2
Lesbian content with Shiala, Morinth, Samara, Liara, and Kelly.\\

That's your opinion but if you ask most of the players who happen to be LGBT, they will disagree with you. 

WTF