Maybe it's testament to the story writing. But anyway, I'm an atheist and I actually found the chantry to be a very oppressive religion, and I actually found myself going out of my way, and loosing leliana approval, to insult it's members. Anyone else get a bit angry with it?
Did anyone else get a little rage at the chantry from time to time?
Débuté par
Anakha6
, avril 06 2010 03:04
Retour en haut
#2
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 03:15
yasuraka.hakkyou
-
- Members
- 1 834 messages
"a little" and "a bit" don't come close to describing it for me. I too am an atheist, fyi.
I've heard in the epilogue, depending on a quest you do or dont do, they declare what is basically a crusade over a death of a priest. Not like the death of a Revered Mother, or something, just a priest.
Similar kinda thing with Arlathan: gee Chantry, you're surprised the elves won't help you humans because, ya know, they've been ENSLAVED for centuries? And are just trying to rebuild their culture when you barge in demanding they worship YOUR god? and what do you do? March on them, send them to ghettos and/or condemn them to wandering for who knows how long. Everyone blabbing on about "Maker watch over you" and crap like that gets annoying on a Dalish run, too.
F--- off Chantry.
I've heard in the epilogue, depending on a quest you do or dont do, they declare what is basically a crusade over a death of a priest. Not like the death of a Revered Mother, or something, just a priest.
Similar kinda thing with Arlathan: gee Chantry, you're surprised the elves won't help you humans because, ya know, they've been ENSLAVED for centuries? And are just trying to rebuild their culture when you barge in demanding they worship YOUR god? and what do you do? March on them, send them to ghettos and/or condemn them to wandering for who knows how long. Everyone blabbing on about "Maker watch over you" and crap like that gets annoying on a Dalish run, too.
F--- off Chantry.
Modifié par yasuraka.hakkyou, 06 avril 2010 - 03:18 .
#3
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 03:18
Anakha6
-
- Members
- 76 messages
Lol. I kinda feel the same way. Said 'little' to try not to let on how angry I got over a game. 
#4
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 03:20
yasuraka.hakkyou
-
- Members
- 1 834 messages
yeah, although you must admit that if a game can pull this kinda stuff off, then the writing department must be doing something right lol.
#5
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 03:22
Anakha6
-
- Members
- 76 messages
Shame the coding department aren't quite keeping up then. Dragon age is the most glitched game I have ever played.
#6
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 03:26
Templ
-
- Members
- 75 messages
I don't want anything to do with a person who says "I'm right and you're wrong" without giving any tangible proof. So, no, I'm no fan of the chantry. They can get very annoying at times, but luckily I don't loose my patience easily.
And JFTR, I'm neither atheist nor religious.
EDIT: From whining about the chantry to whinning about game bugs, eh?
And JFTR, I'm neither atheist nor religious.
EDIT: From whining about the chantry to whinning about game bugs, eh?
Modifié par SpaceAlex, 06 avril 2010 - 03:29 .
#7
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 03:28
yasuraka.hakkyou
-
- Members
- 1 834 messages
ha, yeah. I don't think I've had too many glitches or what have you, (but my elf mage was NOT in love with Alistair, Landsmeet), its still frack irritating that there are still glitches from launch I believe that haven't been fixed.
EDIT: chantry to game bugs isn't that wierd, especially considering I perverted an entire (eventual 7 pg) thread with one sentence.
EDIT: chantry to game bugs isn't that wierd, especially considering I perverted an entire (eventual 7 pg) thread with one sentence.
Modifié par yasuraka.hakkyou, 06 avril 2010 - 03:34 .
#8
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 03:33
Anakha6
-
- Members
- 76 messages
Yeah the whole characters instantly assuming you were in love after a certain approval rating thing was annoying.
#9
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 04:04
CybAnt1
-
- Members
- 3 659 messages
BTW, now that a certain troll with a nasty agenda is (AFAIK) banned, I think it's not a bad time to resume discussion of "how the DA game handles religion".
I would say the whole goal of the writers is to keep religion mysterious. I remember discussions from the early development phase of the game where they said this was a goal. Several devs. said specifically one of the things they hated most about D & D was the rulebook where the gods had stats and the fact that the gods were killable. Sure the gods were uber-powerful, were lvl 50 fighter/mage/everything with 25 stats in everything, but the problem is they had STATS. That made them very concrete and made religion very .... matter-of-fact. Why worship something with STATS? That could be killed?
I don't know if they really have an agenda to change how people think about religion in our world, but I do think they want to handle religion in their (fantasy) world in a certain way that enables them to write the kind of story they want to write.
I get the sense that the way the writers are wanting to write the story, they're not necessarily saying that all the religions of Thedas are bunk. No, I get the sense that the Chantry's teachings aren't complete garbage, but they MAY be things that have been mistranslated, mistransmitted through the generations, progressively misunderstood over time. You get the sense that there are teachings which may be distortions of earlier truths. If these is a "vibe" I get from the way the Chantry is written, the writers are saying "maybe it's a bad idea to be too dogmatic over things over which we just can't be that sure".
I would say the whole goal of the writers is to keep religion mysterious. I remember discussions from the early development phase of the game where they said this was a goal. Several devs. said specifically one of the things they hated most about D & D was the rulebook where the gods had stats and the fact that the gods were killable. Sure the gods were uber-powerful, were lvl 50 fighter/mage/everything with 25 stats in everything, but the problem is they had STATS. That made them very concrete and made religion very .... matter-of-fact. Why worship something with STATS? That could be killed?
I don't know if they really have an agenda to change how people think about religion in our world, but I do think they want to handle religion in their (fantasy) world in a certain way that enables them to write the kind of story they want to write.
I get the sense that the way the writers are wanting to write the story, they're not necessarily saying that all the religions of Thedas are bunk. No, I get the sense that the Chantry's teachings aren't complete garbage, but they MAY be things that have been mistranslated, mistransmitted through the generations, progressively misunderstood over time. You get the sense that there are teachings which may be distortions of earlier truths. If these is a "vibe" I get from the way the Chantry is written, the writers are saying "maybe it's a bad idea to be too dogmatic over things over which we just can't be that sure".
#10
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 05:07
kingthrall
-
- Members
- 368 messages
Anakha6 wrote...
Shame the coding department aren't quite keeping up then. Dragon age is the most glitched game I have ever played.
play empire total war with 0 patches and it will throw your argument out the window
#11
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 05:16
yasuraka.hakkyou
-
- Members
- 1 834 messages
Post may have (slight) spoilers, be warned. and a flippin' wall of text, as well.
CybAnt: I think that's a good idea, that the devs are trying to keep religion mysterious. Mysterious, but not terribly subtle. I understand in the real world, that there are a few dominant religions and many more somewhat minor religions, no offense to anyone, but I dislike how they kind of portray the Chantry as more or less the correct history / lore / what have you, unless you follow a few very certain things.
For example, I've heard that taking Oghren along for the UoSA (Urn) leads him to say that the entire gauntlet or w/e is infused with lyrium. That was kind of a relief, as weird as it may be, because it seemed like Andraste's ashes were real and that the Chantry was more or less right. When I heard that, I started thinking that my mage would have realized that, and therefore could have thought Andraste was just a crazy woman with phenomanal luck and / or power, not an actual god-appointed messenger. And that reinforces the idea that Bioware isn't secretly promoting one religion or any such thing. I don't like how easy that is to miss, though, ie people get oghren pretty late usually, and a decent number of people dislike / hate him. BTW, if someone could double-check that oghy does say something like that, and could post it, I'd appreciate it.
Something I find interesting is the Dalish / Chantry take on the fall of the Dales, although my memory is kinda fuzzy (yay DA wiki). Obviously either side is (most likely) going to skew the story in their own favor. The Chantry claims that the Dalish were sacrificing people to their "pagan" gods, acting with that religious arrogance that we all probably know. The Dalish claim that it was simple racism, while the historians claim it was because the Dales refused to help during the Second Blight. I am infuriated at how religions tend to try and shove their beliefs down "your" throat; its how gentle they decide to be that can really get to me. This is a really modern-day view IMO but if someone has different beliefs than you (or none at all), then "you" should leave it at that and not push the issue.
eh, dunno how on-topic that was, but it is a collection of my views and thoughts on DA and religion.
CybAnt: I think that's a good idea, that the devs are trying to keep religion mysterious. Mysterious, but not terribly subtle. I understand in the real world, that there are a few dominant religions and many more somewhat minor religions, no offense to anyone, but I dislike how they kind of portray the Chantry as more or less the correct history / lore / what have you, unless you follow a few very certain things.
For example, I've heard that taking Oghren along for the UoSA (Urn) leads him to say that the entire gauntlet or w/e is infused with lyrium. That was kind of a relief, as weird as it may be, because it seemed like Andraste's ashes were real and that the Chantry was more or less right. When I heard that, I started thinking that my mage would have realized that, and therefore could have thought Andraste was just a crazy woman with phenomanal luck and / or power, not an actual god-appointed messenger. And that reinforces the idea that Bioware isn't secretly promoting one religion or any such thing. I don't like how easy that is to miss, though, ie people get oghren pretty late usually, and a decent number of people dislike / hate him. BTW, if someone could double-check that oghy does say something like that, and could post it, I'd appreciate it.
Something I find interesting is the Dalish / Chantry take on the fall of the Dales, although my memory is kinda fuzzy (yay DA wiki). Obviously either side is (most likely) going to skew the story in their own favor. The Chantry claims that the Dalish were sacrificing people to their "pagan" gods, acting with that religious arrogance that we all probably know. The Dalish claim that it was simple racism, while the historians claim it was because the Dales refused to help during the Second Blight. I am infuriated at how religions tend to try and shove their beliefs down "your" throat; its how gentle they decide to be that can really get to me. This is a really modern-day view IMO but if someone has different beliefs than you (or none at all), then "you" should leave it at that and not push the issue.
eh, dunno how on-topic that was, but it is a collection of my views and thoughts on DA and religion.
#14
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 05:24
Gaius Octavian
-
- Members
- 250 messages
yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...
?
me?
Not you YH, I
chu
#15
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 05:25
yasuraka.hakkyou
-
- Members
- 1 834 messages
Ah. This kinda subject does get me a little fired up, I'll admit.
#16
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 05:26
Gaius Octavian
-
- Members
- 250 messages
Heh, it was directed at OP. I CBA to read this whole thing 
#17
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 05:42
Boredmad
-
- Members
- 17 messages
I'm not atheist though not necessarily a very religious individual either, but still I found the Chantry revolting. The more I learned of them the more I wanted to hurt them.
Though the Chantry added a level of realism and dark elements into Dragon Age I particularly liked. The Chantry and its Maker even in a fantasy realm seemed more like what I'd expect from organized religion in such a setting and their concepts were a refreshing change to other fantasy where the Gods within the setting are concrete knowable things, which kills realism to me.
Though the Chantry added a level of realism and dark elements into Dragon Age I particularly liked. The Chantry and its Maker even in a fantasy realm seemed more like what I'd expect from organized religion in such a setting and their concepts were a refreshing change to other fantasy where the Gods within the setting are concrete knowable things, which kills realism to me.
#18
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 05:56
Fredericol
-
- Members
- 91 messages
The Chantry is ... interesting.
It sounds much like a religion that is based on truth but, over the years, a lot of ppl had the opportunity to add their own agenda to the "rules"
Gee now that sounds familiar... adding rules is fun
It sounds much like a religion that is based on truth but, over the years, a lot of ppl had the opportunity to add their own agenda to the "rules"
Gee now that sounds familiar... adding rules is fun
#19
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 06:20
Special_Agent_Goodwrench
-
- Members
- 2 411 messages
I love how quickly they can become hostile.
Ostagar. One of them Chantry people asked my PC if she wanted Maker's blessing or something. My HN is totaly not in the mood and says no. Next thing I know, she's being called a heathen and the Chantry lady is pissed at her.
Oh, how I love the Chantry.
Ostagar. One of them Chantry people asked my PC if she wanted Maker's blessing or something. My HN is totaly not in the mood and says no. Next thing I know, she's being called a heathen and the Chantry lady is pissed at her.
Oh, how I love the Chantry.
#20
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 06:28
yasuraka.hakkyou
-
- Members
- 1 834 messages
^ that interaction is possibly better as a Dalish. She has the arrogance to ask if you want the Maker's blessing, when she should know you worship your own gods, and then she even snaps at you for bringing politics into it when you're just stating the truth.
#21
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 06:33
Frolk
-
- Members
- 412 messages
I'm not religious either, so it didn't take long for me to start forming a negative opinion of the Chantry. I never went so far as to be actively hostile towards its followers, though, at least not in my "Mary Sue" playthrough. Just like in real life, I had to find a way to stand my ground on religious issues while trying not to come off as a jerk (and just like in real life, this is impossible depending on who you're talking with).
I really did like the way the game handled religion. I liked that the dominant religion wasn't held up as either a moral authority, nor was it an epistemological authority (that is, it obviously didn't have a monopoly on truth), as is the case in many fantasy settings. I liked that there were several mutually incompatible religions presented in the game world, allowing one to realize that obviously some of these religions are wrong. I liked that Morrigan and Shale were skeptical about religious dogma, and that they didn't just present strawman arguments against it (though it would have been nice to have a vocal skeptic in my party who didn't have slightly sociopathic tendencies), and I liked that the Player Character had the option of being openly skeptical.
I really did like the way the game handled religion. I liked that the dominant religion wasn't held up as either a moral authority, nor was it an epistemological authority (that is, it obviously didn't have a monopoly on truth), as is the case in many fantasy settings. I liked that there were several mutually incompatible religions presented in the game world, allowing one to realize that obviously some of these religions are wrong. I liked that Morrigan and Shale were skeptical about religious dogma, and that they didn't just present strawman arguments against it (though it would have been nice to have a vocal skeptic in my party who didn't have slightly sociopathic tendencies), and I liked that the Player Character had the option of being openly skeptical.
#22
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 07:42
Rapamaha1
-
- Members
- 195 messages
I had fun time mocking the chantry, specially Leliana, nothing beats the feeling you get when someone comes preaching at you and you slam the harsh facts in someones face.
I know Im a evil person but its how I feel about any religion honestly
I know Im a evil person but its how I feel about any religion honestly
#23
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 07:55
Nukenin
-
- Members
- 571 messages
I'm just a dwarf. I don't cotton to these human flailings.
#24
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 08:02
TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain
-
- Members
- 343 messages
I support the OP. Seriously there were times when I just wanted to rez the chantries to the ground. Especially when I heard they were using Lyrium to addict templars and keep them under their thumb. I especially hated the way they get all upity if you bring up anything they did in the past. I.e. Chanter: Will you take the blessing, the maker will not deny you. PC: If I dont will you enslave my people and rape our women. Chanter: I will not speak politics here take your hate and begone heathen.
Made me want to set her dress on fire, which is why I enjoyed messing with the Revered mother in Awakenings and Bringing sten inside the chantry at lothering XD.
The chantry is much like christianity. If you dont agree with their phylosophy or worship their god, its be burned to the stake and die or run forever. I say I would rather have mages in the seat of power rather than the chantry. Even templars use magic, and are enslaved and in direct control of the chantry. They addict them to lyrium to make sure they have a leash at all times. They tranquilize mages who dont want to go through the fade. Basically no matter what you do, even if it isnt your choice or not, they will always stick their nose in it. Not all of them are completely synical brainwashed puppets with a stick called "The Maker" up their arse. Some of them actually make sense, such as Alistair. He does believe in the maker, but he isnt a self righteous ass about it, infact he respects all other cultures and loves anything to do with magic. If more of the chantry was like this, it wouldnt be so damn intollerable.
Hell, if I want to worship nature and spirits, let me. If I wish to worship dragons, let me, but dont try and opress me because the wolf that is held to the wall is the most fierce. Even the dwarves would rather live bellow the earth than listen to the bull the chantry spits. i wish there was a way to off brother burkle in orzammar. He doesnt deserve to live. The dwarves dont give a rats arse about the chant. Yet he keeps insisting, that shows that he doesnt respect anything to do with other cultures.
Im glad I lied to Lelianna when i poored dragons blood into the urn. She stills follows me everywhere and is unaware of what I have done.
Made me want to set her dress on fire, which is why I enjoyed messing with the Revered mother in Awakenings and Bringing sten inside the chantry at lothering XD.
The chantry is much like christianity. If you dont agree with their phylosophy or worship their god, its be burned to the stake and die or run forever. I say I would rather have mages in the seat of power rather than the chantry. Even templars use magic, and are enslaved and in direct control of the chantry. They addict them to lyrium to make sure they have a leash at all times. They tranquilize mages who dont want to go through the fade. Basically no matter what you do, even if it isnt your choice or not, they will always stick their nose in it. Not all of them are completely synical brainwashed puppets with a stick called "The Maker" up their arse. Some of them actually make sense, such as Alistair. He does believe in the maker, but he isnt a self righteous ass about it, infact he respects all other cultures and loves anything to do with magic. If more of the chantry was like this, it wouldnt be so damn intollerable.
Hell, if I want to worship nature and spirits, let me. If I wish to worship dragons, let me, but dont try and opress me because the wolf that is held to the wall is the most fierce. Even the dwarves would rather live bellow the earth than listen to the bull the chantry spits. i wish there was a way to off brother burkle in orzammar. He doesnt deserve to live. The dwarves dont give a rats arse about the chant. Yet he keeps insisting, that shows that he doesnt respect anything to do with other cultures.
Im glad I lied to Lelianna when i poored dragons blood into the urn. She stills follows me everywhere and is unaware of what I have done.
Modifié par TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain, 06 avril 2010 - 08:23 .
#25
Posté 06 avril 2010 - 08:08
TheGriffonsShallRiseAgain
-
- Members
- 343 messages
Agreedyasuraka.hakkyou wrote...
Post may have (slight) spoilers, be warned. and a flippin' wall of text, as well.
CybAnt: I think that's a good idea, that the devs are trying to keep religion mysterious. Mysterious, but not terribly subtle. I understand in the real world, that there are a few dominant religions and many more somewhat minor religions, no offense to anyone, but I dislike how they kind of portray the Chantry as more or less the correct history / lore / what have you, unless you follow a few very certain things.
For example, I've heard that taking Oghren along for the UoSA (Urn) leads him to say that the entire gauntlet or w/e is infused with lyrium. That was kind of a relief, as weird as it may be, because it seemed like Andraste's ashes were real and that the Chantry was more or less right. When I heard that, I started thinking that my mage would have realized that, and therefore could have thought Andraste was just a crazy woman with phenomanal luck and / or power, not an actual god-appointed messenger. And that reinforces the idea that Bioware isn't secretly promoting one religion or any such thing. I don't like how easy that is to miss, though, ie people get oghren pretty late usually, and a decent number of people dislike / hate him. BTW, if someone could double-check that oghy does say something like that, and could post it, I'd appreciate it.
Something I find interesting is the Dalish / Chantry take on the fall of the Dales, although my memory is kinda fuzzy (yay DA wiki). Obviously either side is (most likely) going to skew the story in their own favor. The Chantry claims that the Dalish were sacrificing people to their "pagan" gods, acting with that religious arrogance that we all probably know. The Dalish claim that it was simple racism, while the historians claim it was because the Dales refused to help during the Second Blight. I am infuriated at how religions tend to try and shove their beliefs down "your" throat; its how gentle they decide to be that can really get to me. This is a really modern-day view IMO but if someone has different beliefs than you (or none at all), then "you" should leave it at that and not push the issue.
eh, dunno how on-topic that was, but it is a collection of my views and thoughts on DA and religion.
