258292 réponses à ce sujet

[Nivenus]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

That's a double standard. Shooting the geth because the quarian is humanoid is good but shooting the quarian because the geth is cute is bad? Frankly, I think neither is good but that doesn't stop people from arguing both points.

The geth doesn't have family. It doesn't have emotions. It doesn't have spawn. It doesn't even have individuality.

The geth are monsters for what they did to the quarians.

Whether or not the geth have emotions is debateable. Several fans believe they do. And they do reproduce, just not in an organic sense. Legion and the Codex also explicitly state that the geth are not a hive mind. Instead, they have an inverse quality - a mind hive. Each individual geth construct is an amalgamation of several programs which, together, form a unique individual. That doesn't mean the geth are individuals in the same sense as humans or quarians - they refer to themselves in the plural, for instance. But each geth is unique and Legion is a prime example of this.

And in my eyes, what the quarians tried to do the geth is just as monstrous. That doesn't justify what the geth did, it just means both sides are in the wrong.

[RedTracer7]

sergio71785 wrote...

RedTracer7 wrote...

With 300 years of fear and hatred, are the quarians really capable of coexisting peacefully with the Geth?  Legion himself acknolodges that the natural suspicion the quarians hold for ANY AI, especially the Geth, will inevitably result in war.

Yes, because they won't even share the same space. The geth don't use the planet, at all. They live on space stations. They get their resources from asteroids. 

Besides, I suspect the geth will move to another part of the galaxy to work on their megastructure. An asteroid rich system with no planets to attract organics would be the most ideal thing for them.

If we took your first point, that the Geth could just live in space stations, we develop a system in which the Geth could dictate who or what enters Rannoch, and in which the Geth could fire upon the quarians at will.  I do understand, however, that this is kind of hard to believe; the Geth just aren't that malevolent.

300 years of fearing the Geth, however, have shaded the quarians views.  Tali displays this if you bring Legion along to recruit her.  No matter what the Geth do or vice-versa, the result will be a growing fear that leads to war.

Unless, as you say in your second post, the Geth move away.  Which is possible, but brings up the question as to why they haven't already.  

[kraidy1117]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

A war caused by the Quarians....... Why do people seem to forget that.

Having AI is illegal. The citadel council would have set up sanctions against the quarians. The quarians decided to "shut down" the geth. Maybe to reprogram them. They were for manual labor afterall, right? How do you make friends with the illegal sentient machine AND lose the resources that you were supposed to get from the manual labor AND have sanctions against you becuase you have illegal AI?

They try to shut down the geth, the geth go "WAT NOOO" and go Terminator on them. Slaughter a billion Quarians (still not clear on actual number), drive them from their homeworld.

Quarians had no choice. I side with the Quarians to find peace with the geth.

No they where going to shut them down permantly, that means death to a Geth. They had the right to fight back. I am for peace, but if peace can't happen, I am not siding with the Quarians at all.

[tyler1991991]

herbie dog wrote...

/uploads_user/1471000/1470935/28713.jpg

*hugs Tali*
<3

[SirEmilCrane]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Geth have feelings. Geth are not a VI, they are a true AI and have feelings.

Just shut up man
First of all, geth are hyper-advanced VI or at least they were designed that way. Second of all, the geth can reupload to a mobile platform, the quarian can't. The geth has no family, no emotions it doesn't dream or fear anything

[herbie dog]

/uploads_user/1471000/1470935/28545.jpg

[Simon9one]

kraidy1117 wrote...

A war that they casused. It is there own dam fault that there decendents have to live like this. The Geth are diffrent. The Geth never die and still remember the war. The Geth want peace, but if they must they will fight back.

The quarians lashed out against what they thought were simply unshackled AIs....the geth committed genocide.  It could be argued that the quarians started it.  But they were met with the merciless, remorseless killing of most of their population.  300 years later they're still stuck without a home.

Can you really say they deserve that?

[Azint]

You seem to really be victimizing the quarians, they tried to commit genocide, that is still wrong. The quarians now suffer for what happened three centuries ago, they do not deserve the fate left to them. The geth do deserve to be treated as a race rather than machines, but they really should tell people that. The quarians need to be shown that the glaxy needs to be shown that, and the geth need to speak up.

/discussion

[Kikaimegami]

runescapeguy9 wrote...

Time to start spamming peace pictures....

Please do.

And I'm sorry about starting this argument to begin with.

[kraidy1117]

Simon9one wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

A war that they casused. It is there own dam fault that there decendents have to live like this. The Geth are diffrent. The Geth never die and still remember the war. The Geth want peace, but if they must they will fight back.

The quarians lashed out against what they thought were simply unshackled AIs....the geth committed genocide.  It could be argued that the quarians started it.  But they were met with the merciless, remorseless killing of most of their population.  300 years later they're still stuck without a home.

Can you really say they deserve that?

Geth did't cause Genocide, the Quarians attemped Genocide. The Geth protected them self. The Geth pushed them back.

[Someone With Mass]

It feels like everyone's repeating the same crap all over again. "The quarians did this, but the geth did that."



ENOUGH!



Now, show Tali some love.

[Andaius20]

Whats going on in here, anything interesting happen as of late?

[kraidy1117]

Azint wrote...

You seem to really be victimizing the quarians, they tried to commit genocide, that is still wrong. The quarians now suffer for what happened three centuries ago, they do not deserve the fate left to them. The geth do deserve to be treated as a race rather than machines, but they really should tell people that. The quarians need to be shown that the glaxy needs to be shown that, and the geth need to speak up.

/discussion

And I am all for peace, but if the Quarians will not listen and go to war I will not help them. I just can't.

[Lividity Jones]

Nivenus wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

Nivenus wrote...

That's a double standard. Shooting the geth because the quarian is humanoid is good but shooting the quarian because the geth is cute is bad? Frankly, I think neither is good but that doesn't stop people from arguing both points.

The geth doesn't have family. It doesn't have emotions. It doesn't have spawn. It doesn't even have individuality.

The geth are monsters for what they did to the quarians.

Whether or not the geth have emotions is debateable. Several fans believe they do. And they do reproduce, just not in an organic sense. Legion and the Codex also explicitly state that the geth are not a hive mind. Instead, they have an inverse quality - a mind hive. Each individual geth construct is an amalgamation of several programs which, together, form a unique individual. That doesn't mean the geth are individuals in the same sense as humans or quarians - they refer to themselves in the plural, for instance. But each geth is unique and Legion is a prime example of this.

And in my eyes, what the quarians tried to do the geth is just as monstrous. That doesn't justify what the geth did, it just means both sides are in the wrong.

The quarians, deactivating the geth, were wrong.

The geth, attempting to slaughter an entire species, were by far worse.

You cannot justify murdering children.

[Kikaimegami]

Let's give peace a chance, huh?

[Nivenus]

Lividity Jones wrote...

The quarians, deactivating the geth, were wrong.

The geth, attempting to slaughter an entire species, were by far worse.

You cannot justify murdering children.

Who says that I'm trying to? I said both sides were in the wrong.

[SirEmilCrane]

Nivenus wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

The quarians, deactivating the geth, were wrong.

The geth, attempting to slaughter an entire species, were by far worse.

You cannot justify murdering children.

Who says that I'm trying to? I said both sides were in the wrong.

Maybe not you, but some people here...

[Kikaimegami]

runescapeguy9 wrote...




IF THEY CAN GET ALONG SO CAN WE

I really should have put some sort of signature on that.

[Lividity Jones]

Nivenus wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

The quarians, deactivating the geth, were wrong.

The geth, attempting to slaughter an entire species, were by far worse.

You cannot justify murdering children.

Who says that I'm trying to? I said both sides were in the wrong.

You aren't, but some are.

It disgusts me.

[Goat_Shepard]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Simon9one wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

A war that they casused. It is there own dam fault that there decendents have to live like this. The Geth are diffrent. The Geth never die and still remember the war. The Geth want peace, but if they must they will fight back.

The quarians lashed out against what they thought were simply unshackled AIs....the geth committed genocide.  It could be argued that the quarians started it.  But they were met with the merciless, remorseless killing of most of their population.  300 years later they're still stuck without a home.

Can you really say they deserve that?

Geth did't cause Genocide, the Quarians attemped Genocide. The Geth protected them self. The Geth pushed them back.

But that doesn't mean this generation of quarians deserve anything. Nobody deserves anything but mutual understanding.

Read this:

Nivenus wrote...

Whether or not the geth have emotions is  debateable. Several fans believe they do. And they do reproduce, just
not in an organic sense. Legion and the Codex also explicitly state that the geth are not a hive mind. Instead, they have an inverse quality - a mind hive. Each individual geth construct is an amalgamation of several programs which, together, form a unique individual. That doesn't mean  the geth are individuals in the same sense as humans or quarians - they  refer to themselves in the plural, for instance. But each geth is unique and Legion is a prime example of this.

And in my eyes,  what the quarians tried to do the geth is just as monstrous. That  doesn't justify what the geth did, it just means both sides are in the wrong.

Then this

Azint wrote...

You seem to really be victimizing the  quarians, they tried to commit genocide, that is still wrong. The  quarians now suffer for what happened three centuries ago, they  do not deserve the fate left to them. The geth do deserve to be treated  as a race rather than machines, but they really should tell people that. The quarians need to be shown that the glaxy needs to be shown that,  and the geth need to speak up.

/discussion

I'm done here.

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 18 avril 2010 - 09:53 .

[Collider]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Simon9one wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

A war that they casused. It is there own dam fault that there decendents have to live like this. The Geth are diffrent. The Geth never die and still remember the war. The Geth want peace, but if they must they will fight back.

The quarians lashed out against what they thought were simply unshackled AIs....the geth committed genocide.  It could be argued that the quarians started it.  But they were met with the merciless, remorseless killing of most of their population.  300 years later they're still stuck without a home.

Can you really say they deserve that?

Geth did't cause Genocide, the Quarians attemped Genocide. The Geth protected them self. The Geth pushed them back.

The Geth killed billions. That's essentially genocide.
I don't belive for a second that what the Quarians did was genocide. They only knew of a few models that started asking philosophical questions. That they did not know if all of the Geth were like that. The Geth were hardware, not people. To risk sanctions simply because of malfunctioning hardware does not seem logical. I don't think either side was in the right. Pinning it all on the Quarians seems incredibly wrong.

[sergio71785]

RedTracer7 wrote...
300 years of fearing the Geth, however, have shaded the quarians views.  Tali displays this if you bring Legion along to recruit her. 

That's not really the best example. 

Every geth Tali has ever encountered has opened fire on her. She was just in an area where dozens of geth killed her friends. It's only logical she'd see a mobile platform and want to open fire on it.

It's like... if in during WW2 or something, you run into a fellow Allied soldier, and there's a guy with a n4zi uniform standing behind you. 

EDIT: Apparently the National Socialist German Workers' Party is a bad word.

Modifié par sergio71785, 18 avril 2010 - 09:53 .

[RedTracer7]

Someone With Mass wrote...

It feels like everyone's repeating the same crap all over again. "The quarians did this, but the geth did that."

ENOUGH!

Now, show Tali some love.

Why? The ability of a video game to create such complex discussions with dynamics ranging from justifications for war to the definition of genocide does nothing to hurt the game, nor it's community.  The fact that you are in a thread devoted to the shining example of one of two races that bring up such questions should lead you to believe that such discussions will, naturally, pop up.  By further examining these issues, we develop a better understanding for the quarian and geth races as a whole, and as Tali the individual.

[Ormagodenator]

got to go,

be back later.