258292 réponses à ce sujet

[Goat_Shepard]

kraidy1117 wrote...

SirEmilCrane wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

SirEmilCrane wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...


Again, proof of that number? or is that a number that you decided to make up? It only says billions of Geth died. 99% is not mentioned in the coxed or books at all. Don't make up numbers.

http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Quarian

Read the history section, says billions of quarians lost their lives

Thats not 99% <_< we don't even know what the population was before the war. Again show me where it says 99% and how many lived before the war? Even in the history section it does not say how many survived the war, only that 17 million are alive NOW.

Read it again, it says billions died

Billions does not mean 99%. You don't know how many lived before the war, so you can not say it was 99%.

Can you get billions of quarians off of a burning Rannoch on one fleet? Even if it's a huge fleet, they could not carry off billions of quarians.

Maybe they had to leave billions behind to die

Modifié par Goat_Shepard, 18 avril 2010 - 10:20 .

[kraidy1117]

sergio71785 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Again you don't know the full population before the war, you can not pull out numbers. The only number we have is billions of Quarians. We are not even given a number of surviors. We just know there is around 17 million Quarians alive.

We know that the Flotilla has maintained a steady population (confirmed in-game), they can't let its population grow or drop. Thus, it's obvious 15-20 million Quarians were exiled from their homeworld. 

We don't know their population was, but it's highly, exceedingly unlikely that an advanced race, spanning multiple colonies, would have anything less than a billion. I wouldn't be surprised if they were in the ten billions. 

We got almost 7 billion people right now, and we're not even in space yet. It's a biological law that any species that manages to overcome its environmental boundaries will grow at an exponential rate. Every living creature exists has this capability. Quarians would've been in such a state as the dominant race of their planet. 

If you really don't think the quarian numbers were at least in the 10 digits, then you're just making your argument look even weaker by not accepting something so clear. 

Oh I know there where billions before the war, but we don't know the exact number and all we know is that bllions died. We also don't know how many surviors there was. That was 300 years ago, no one can use the 99% argument, you just can't.

[kraidy1117]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

SirEmilCrane wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

SirEmilCrane wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...


Again, proof of that number? or is that a number that you decided to make up? It only says billions of Geth died. 99% is not mentioned in the coxed or books at all. Don't make up numbers.

http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Quarian

Read the history section, says billions of quarians lost their lives

Thats not 99% <_< we don't even know what the population was before the war. Again show me where it says 99% and how many lived before the war? Even in the history section it does not say how many survived the war, only that 17 million are alive NOW.

Read it again, it says billions died

Billions does not mean 99%. You don't know how many lived before the war, so you can not say it was 99%.

Can you get billions of quarians off of a burning Rannoch on on fleet? Even if it's a huge fleet, they could not carry off billions of quarians.

Maybe they had to leave billions behind to die

If they left billions to die then that was again the Quarians fault, anyways lets end this and get back to talking about Tali.

[sergio71785]

kraidy1117 wrote...

SirEmilCrane wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...


Again, proof of that number? or is that a number that you decided to make up? It only says billions of Geth died. 99% is not mentioned in the coxed or books at all. Don't make up numbers.

http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Quarian

Read the history section, says billions of quarians lost their lives

Thats not 99% <_< we don't even know what the population was before the war. Again show me where it says 99% and how many lived before the war? Even in the history section it does not say how many survived the war, only that 17 million are alive NOW.

Actually, I did the math.

Assuming a VERY conservative 5 billion quarians died, and a very generous 20 million made it out alive:

99.996% of quarians died. 

So you're right, 99% was inaccurate. It was actually a lot worse. 

Modifié par sergio71785, 18 avril 2010 - 10:21 .

[Andaius20]

Well do you have a pair of tinited sunglasses? Just wear those all day and you'd get soemthign similar. Kikai

[SirEmilCrane]

kraidy1117 wrote...

Billions does not mean 99%. You don't know how many lived before the war, so you can not say it was 99%.

You said genocide means over 50% dead. Billions means at least two billion. So assuming that your definition of genocide is correct then the geth committed genocide as there are only 17 million left. So more than one billion died

[Collider]

Use. This. Thread

[kraidy1117]

sergio71785 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

SirEmilCrane wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...


Again, proof of that number? or is that a number that you decided to make up? It only says billions of Geth died. 99% is not mentioned in the coxed or books at all. Don't make up numbers.

http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Quarian

Read the history section, says billions of quarians lost their lives

Thats not 99% <_< we don't even know what the population was before the war. Again show me where it says 99% and how many lived before the war? Even in the history section it does not say how many survived the war, only that 17 million are alive NOW.

Actually, I did the math.

Assuming a VERY conservative 5 billion quarians died, and a very generous 20 million made it out alive:

99.996% of quarians died. 

So you're right, 99% was inaccurate. It was actually a lot worse. 

You don't know that 20 million made it out alive. No one knows, if anything it's safer to say 75% where killed. It's more safer then saying 99% because we don't know the full numbers.

[Goat_Shepard]

sergio71785 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

SirEmilCrane wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...


Again, proof of that number? or is that a number that you decided to make up? It only says billions of Geth died. 99% is not mentioned in the coxed or books at all. Don't make up numbers.

http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Quarian

Read the history section, says billions of quarians lost their lives

Thats not 99% <_< we don't even know what the population was before the war. Again show me where it says 99% and how many lived before the war? Even in the history section it does not say how many survived the war, only that 17 million are alive NOW.

Actually, I did the math.

Assuming a VERY conservative 5 billion quarians died, and a very generous 20 million made it out alive:

99.996% of quarians died. 

So you're right, 99% was inaccurate. It was actually a lot worse. 

Ouch. I feel so bad now

Damn you sergio, damn you kraidy....damn you all

[RedTracer7]

 If anyone could examine my idea for as to why quarian's eyes glow, that would be awesome.  I am unaware of any holes in my hypothesis, but a second opinion only helps.

First off, let me establish that I do not believe quarian eyes glow naturally, for there would be little reason for that.  Bioluminesense generally developes in animals without usual access to sunlight.  The quarians have always had such access.

Instead, I believe the quarians have a tapetum lucidum, or a layer of cells directly behind the retina that reflects incoming light.  Cats are an earthly example of this feature.  The reason they have a constant "glow" results from the heads-up displays the quarians have within their masks, as seen when Tali's drops to the floor before... engaging Shepard.  This light, from these displays, reflects off their tapetum lucidum, creating a permanent "cat's eye" look. 

Some may bring up that a cat's reflective properties are very distinct, while quarians have a "hazy eye", in that they seem to emanate from a central location, instead of reflecting back light equally across their entire surface, as my hypothesis would lead you to believe.  I reply that the inherent murkiness of the gases they breath (if this murkiness is intentional or not is open to debate) causes the light to distort, resulting in, and enhancing, the idea that their eyes "glow".

Comments?

[Kikaimegami]

Tali is great because she likes purple. I'm totally down with that.

[kraidy1117]

SirEmilCrane wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

Billions does not mean 99%. You don't know how many lived before the war, so you can not say it was 99%.

You said genocide means over 50% dead. Billions means at least two billion. So assuming that your definition of genocide is correct then the geth committed genocide as there are only 17 million left. So more than one billion died

Million are living now and I aid this is over because realy there is no right or wrong answer to this. Some people feel sorry for the Quarians, some don't That does not mean you are wrong, nor those that mean I am wrong. So lets go back to talking about Tali?

[uhdnrt]

kraidy1117 wrote...
The Geth protected them self, in wars people die. Thats war for you. The Quarians made the mistake of building the geth and then trying to commit Genocide on them. Attemping Genocide is worse then the death of innocent. The Quarians are still alive, they just have to wander around the Galaxy but they are not gone from the Galaxy. If the Geth never protected them self then the Quarians would have coomited Genocide.

ME contradicts you kraidy.  According to the information gained talking with Tali in ME, the quarians attempted to deactivate what they presumed were malfunctioning VI's.  Before it the became a true AI.  The quarians were not aware of exactly how far the geth had already progressed as a true AI.  They were simply attempting to shut down programs before it became a problem.
  The quarians were too late.
  This resulted in them failing to deactivate a fledgling AI, which viewed the attempt as an attempt at destruction (which it would unintentionally have been had the quarians succeeded).   The geth reached consensus because of an order give out to turn all of them off.  In response, they terminated any opposition (read: quarians).  It all boils down to misiniformation and traged, in the initial event.
  Everything after the initial days events, including the murder of milliions of noncombatants, can no longer be listed as self defense.  And since geth platforms are not actually "alive", and te software can be backed up, it was a war in which only one side could truly die.  The geth's brutality (which they see as "efficiency") is a logical deduction given the facts they had.
   If the one reaching the conclusion is a child.
   Only in children, with a child's narcissicistic selfishness (inability to think of anyone other than themself), would such a conclusion be seen as valid.  A young child will not consider the ramifications of its actions other than how the actions benefit it personally.
  The geth, however, are not mentally children.  They compute and think incredibly fast, and can reason as well as an adult.  Consequently, the geth chose the easiest option available: eliminate all opposition.  It is likely that the concensus to self determinate did not arise until later, probably when Saren approched the geth (causing the logic schism).

TL;DR version: The geth, while new to the concept of self during the morning war, had the logic and reasoning abilities to choose their course during the war.  The geth's choice was attempted genocide, to "eliminate oppostion."  A the same time, the quarians are also guilty of attempted genocide; the difference is that the quarians attempted it asaccidentally, not on purpose.

[Gust4v]

"You need to hire a Quarian you bosh'tet!"

[sergio71785]

kraidy1117 wrote...
You don't know that 20 million made it out alive. No one knows, if anything it's safer to say 75% where killed. It's more safer then saying 99% because we don't know the full numbers.

Alright, let's go crazy. Let's imagine that a whopping 100 million made it out alive (What happened to all the ships that carried them? Eh, let's ignore that) 

That's 99.98% died.


Hell, let's go totally bonkers. An insane 1 billion made it out alive. 

80% of the quarians died.

And again, that's assuming an exceedingly generous 5 billion total population. 

[Andaius20]

Well I'm off to play some ME 2, have fun folks and done kill each other while I'm gone.

EDIT: ALso Kraidy your lossing badly, I'm let it drop now.

Modifié par Andaius20, 18 avril 2010 - 10:26 .

[Lord Dravek]

Tali would never do that!

Gust4v wrote...

"You need to hire a Quarian you bosh'tet!"

[Sky Shadowing]

kraidy1117 wrote...

sergio71785 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

SirEmilCrane wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...


Again, proof of that number? or is that a number that you decided to make up? It only says billions of Geth died. 99% is not mentioned in the coxed or books at all. Don't make up numbers.

http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Quarian

Read the history section, says billions of quarians lost their lives

Thats not 99% <_< we don't even know what the population was before the war. Again show me where it says 99% and how many lived before the war? Even in the history section it does not say how many survived the war, only that 17 million are alive NOW.

Actually, I did the math.

Assuming a VERY conservative 5 billion quarians died, and a very generous 20 million made it out alive:

99.996% of quarians died. 

So you're right, 99% was inaccurate. It was actually a lot worse. 

You don't know that 20 million made it out alive. No one knows, if anything it's safer to say 75% where killed. It's more safer then saying 99% because we don't know the full numbers.

All evidence indicates that it was roughly around 17 million survivors out of a race of billions.

If the evidence won't convince you, we won't.

[RedTracer7]

runescapeguy9 wrote...

RedTracer7 wrote...

 If anyone could examine my idea for as to why quarian's eyes glow, that would be awesome.  I am unaware of any holes in my hypothesis, but a second opinion only helps.

First off, let me establish that I do not believe quarian eyes glow naturally, for there would be little reason for that.  Bioluminesense generally developes in animals without usual access to sunlight.  The quarians have always had such access.

Instead, I believe the quarians have a tapetum lucidum, or a layer of cells directly behind the retina that reflects incoming light.  Cats are an earthly example of this feature.  The reason they have a constant "glow" results from the heads-up displays the quarians have within their masks, as seen when Tali's drops to the floor before... engaging Shepard.  This light, from these displays, reflects off their tapetum lucidum, creating a permanent "cat's eye" look. 

Some may bring up that a cat's reflective properties are very distinct, while quarians have a "hazy eye", in that they seem to emanate from a central location, instead of reflecting back light equally across their entire surface, as my hypothesis would lead you to believe.  I reply that the inherent murkiness of the gases they breath (if this murkiness is intentional or not is open to debate) causes the light to distort, resulting in, and enhancing, the idea that their eyes "glow".

Comments?

This was the most agreed upon solution if I remember right.

Really?  Because every picture (including your profile pic) that shows Tali's "real face" show her with some sort of naturally glowy eyes.  Secondly, most fanfics seem to describe her as having eyes that are naturally bioluminescent...

[Someone With Mass]

runescapeguy9 wrote...

RedTracer7 wrote...

 If anyone could examine my idea for as to why quarian's eyes glow, that would be awesome.  I am unaware of any holes in my hypothesis, but a second opinion only helps.

First off, let me establish that I do not believe quarian eyes glow naturally, for there would be little reason for that.  Bioluminesense generally developes in animals without usual access to sunlight.  The quarians have always had such access.

Instead, I believe the quarians have a tapetum lucidum, or a layer of cells directly behind the retina that reflects incoming light.  Cats are an earthly example of this feature.  The reason they have a constant "glow" results from the heads-up displays the quarians have within their masks, as seen when Tali's drops to the floor before... engaging Shepard.  This light, from these displays, reflects off their tapetum lucidum, creating a permanent "cat's eye" look. 

Some may bring up that a cat's reflective properties are very distinct, while quarians have a "hazy eye", in that they seem to emanate from a central location, instead of reflecting back light equally across their entire surface, as my hypothesis would lead you to believe.  I reply that the inherent murkiness of the gases they breath (if this murkiness is intentional or not is open to debate) causes the light to distort, resulting in, and enhancing, the idea that their eyes "glow".

Comments?

This was the most agreed upon solution if I remember right.

And it's totally hot when you think about Tali with cat eyes.