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[Sky Shadowing]

Phil725 wrote...

Sky Shadowing wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
*snip*

Well said, fellow Talimancer.

I'd like to point out that Bioware did make Tali a love interest because of an outcry of popular support for it.

So they obviously listen.

That said, I was thinkning about the whole situation in my poly sci class this morning, and I realized that Bioware have actually set Tali, and several other characters, up to return. Tali's ship name is "vas Normandy". She's potentially exiled. If she is, she literally has nowhere else to go, no friends, no family. Quarians are looked down at by the Citadel, and she could make it on Omega, but that's not the kind of place she'd go. So where else but with Shepard?

In the end, the evidence to the team returning is actually in the game itself. Nobody has conflicting loyalties. Tali's loyalty quite clearly lies with Shepard. Miranda actually cuts ties with Cerberus, Shepard is Garrus' only friend. Thane wants to make the world a better place (and could die by ME3), Jack has no other loyalties. Shepard is Grunt's Battlemaster. Jacob... nobody cares about, so he might be gone.

Samara and Thane are the ones with the most logistical reasons for leaving. Kasumi and Zaeed are DLC, so not everybody has them, so they're probably gone.

I've heard that thing about Bioware making her an LI because of fan support, and frankly, I don't buy it.  In the end, Tali just doesn't fit in with the ME1 romance arc.  The ME1 romance arc is 3 conversations and a sex scene.  Tali can't introduce the geth and the quarians, develop a relationship with Shep, and find the time to research how to have sex before Ilos.  Not only does it not fit her character, it just doesn't fit from a game perspective.

Skip ahead to ME2, with the basis for a relationship being so obvious, was there any chance that they would skip the opportunity to add the romance?  I just imagine a writer looking at the romance after they were done, and thinking "jackpot. B)"  They wouldn't have kept from adding it if half as many people liked her.  The Tali romance arc goes from unbelievable and out of place to amazing and completely believable.  It would have been impossible to match the emotional impact elsewhere, and Bioware knew it.

I agree with the rest, although I think Thane will be back, simply because I don't think much time will pass, and he'll still be ok.

I agree, Thane will be back, because he's a LI, and you can't write to keep him in the story for only those who romanced him.

As I've said, the 6 Most Likely to Return are Garrus, Tali, Miranda, Jack, Jacob, and Thane- the Love Interests, simply because from a business perspective, their VAs are already going to be brought in to do acting.

[mikethor007]

Oh, and:

1)TALI

2)Garrus

3)Legion

4)Joker

[Someone With Mass]

Well, I have faith in BioWare. They haven't disappointed me yet. I'm sure they'll come up with something that pleases almost everyone.

[Goat_Shepard]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Let's not forget that if it
wasn't for Tali, Shepard wouldn't be a Spectre in the first place.

And
as we've said before, Tali was a romance in ME2 simply because the fans
wanted it.
I don't think that BioWare is going to start ignore
their fans now.

I still don't buy that they did all that for Tali (most dialogue, best loyalty mission, romance, etc) all for 400 dudes making a thread called Tali Love. Doesn't add up, cuz 1000 more people will be turned away from the fact you added a "sick quarian LI".

Phil725 wrote...

MrBoomba wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...

*snip*

I choose the best time to jump into this thread

YOU SPEAK TRUTH, MAN!!

I figure Bioware has their big plan, I sort of feel silly posting in this thread with the title the way it is because..well..it seems to be already achieved. Awaiting confirmation,  of course, but cmon, we know generally what's going on.

This thread serves many more purposes than the one specified in the title. How much have I learned? Have much is left to learn?

A lot, and a lot

I personally am in constant fear of Tali not being a LI or squad mate in ME3 for the fact she can die in ME2. Every time I think "It would be shooting themsevles in the foot" I just think of how she can die in ME2 and all my fear comes rushing back... Which is why I keep in this thread, I do hope they dont, but damnit most games that have a character able to die in a game normally dont come back as a recruitable in the next game

The thing is that there are just so many reasons for them to bring Tali (and all of the characters,) back, and basically none to not.  Even if they don't make her a squad mate, they still have to write her into the story, not on the team, in a convincing way.  Now you're writing a new character to replace her, and a new role (that is almost impossible to make believable, I've tried,) for Tali.  That's extra work than just removing her impact if she died, and on top of that, you lose a whole new group of fans for every character you don't bring back.  They also aren't going to have time to recruit and develop an entire new team if they want to focus on plot at all.  ME2 was made specifically so ME3 didn't need to focus on characters.

The problem with them being able to die can be resolved by minimizing their impact from a plot stand point.  If Tali isn't required to defeat the reapers, but having her there with me makes it 100X better, I'm just fine with that, and I think that's the only logical conclusion.

My fear with the third game is that they don't put much effort into the romance arc, and minimize focus on the characters in general, which is the only part I really care about.  I don't doubt them actually being on the squad, they're just waiting to drum up interest for ME3.

It's not a fear of Tali not returning, it's a fear of a diminished role.

So it's 100x better if Tali's with you even though she doesn't have a
plot, that's still saying "no more spotlight, maybe you'll get 2 romance
convos again" it just makes me think "pew pew....meh".

[smecky-kitteh]

in ME2 there are 6 LI's ints hard to imagen that those 6 plus the ME1 servivors will make the team in mME3 ontop of any other new comers they have. i think tali and garrus will be safe because they are (i feel) the ME icons and they have the biggest fan bases but im not so sure about everyone ells.

[Someone With Mass]

No more suddenly character changes that happened out side the game. (Looking at you, Liara.)



I got sick of that crap very quickly.

[JeanLuc761]

Goat_Shepard wrote...
It's not a fear of Tali not returning, it's a fear of a diminished role.

So it's 100x better if Tali's with you even though she doesn't have a
plot, that's still saying "no more spotlight, maybe you'll get 2 romance
convos again" it just makes me think "pew pew....meh".

Like I've said many, many times, it'd be utter stupidity if the geth/quarian conflict that they set up during ME2 doesn't play a major role in ME3.  There is so much ripe story there for Legion, Tali and the main plot.  That alone, if done right, would comprise even more than Tali's loyalty mission.

And, to try out my new entrance, Captain on deck! 

[Phil725]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

Phil725 wrote...
*snip*

The thing is that there are just so many reasons for them to bring Tali (and all of the characters,) back, and basically none to not.  Even if they don't make her a squad mate, they still have to write her into the story, not on the team, in a convincing way.  Now you're writing a new character to replace her, and a new role (that is almost impossible to make believable, I've tried,) for Tali.  That's extra work than just removing her impact if she died, and on top of that, you lose a whole new group of fans for every character you don't bring back.  They also aren't going to have time to recruit and develop an entire new team if they want to focus on plot at all.  ME2 was made specifically so ME3 didn't need to focus on characters.

The problem with them being able to die can be resolved by minimizing their impact from a plot stand point.  If Tali isn't required to defeat the reapers, but having her there with me makes it 100X better, I'm just fine with that, and I think that's the only logical conclusion.

My fear with the third game is that they don't put much effort into the romance arc, and minimize focus on the characters in general, which is the only part I really care about.  I don't doubt them actually being on the squad, they're just waiting to drum up interest for ME3.

It's not a fear of Tali not returning, it's a fear of a diminished role.

So it's 100x better if Tali's with you even though she doesn't have a
plot, that's still saying "no more spotlight, maybe you'll get 2 romance
convos again" it just makes me think "pew pew....meh".

Not necessarily, Tali isn't integral to the plot of ME2.  You can skip recruiting her altogether.  I don't think you have any problem with her role in ME2.  They could do it just as well in ME3.

I do share your fear of a reduced focus as well.  Its the reason that I don't expect ME3 to be as loved as ME2.  Everyone loves something different in ME2, and there's a good chance that ME3 won't focus on that part as much.  For me, its the characters, and I'm almost certain they'll take a backseat in ME3.  I'm just holding out hope that they go all out on the romance arc.

[Goat_Shepard]

Phil725 wrote...
I've heard that thing about Bioware making her an LI because of fan support, and frankly, I don't buy it.  In the end, Tali just doesn't fit in with the ME1 romance arc.  The ME1 romance arc is 3 conversations and a sex scene.  Tali can't introduce the geth and the quarians, develop a relationship with Shep, and find the time to research how to have sex before Ilos.  Not only does it not fit her character, it just doesn't fit from a game perspective.

Skip ahead to ME2, with the basis for a relationship being so obvious, was there any chance that they would skip the opportunity to add the romance?  I just imagine a writer looking at the romance after they were done, and thinking "jackpot. B)"  They wouldn't have kept from adding it if half as many people liked her.  The Tali romance arc goes from unbelievable and out of place to amazing and completely believable.  It would have been impossible to match the emotional impact elsewhere, and Bioware knew it.

I agree with the rest, although I think Thane will be back, simply because I don't think much time will pass, and he'll still be ok.

The only thing I ever heard was "we didn't think people would like her chicken feet". But I think that's a smokescreen. Bioware isn't dumb, look at ME1, you got all those squaddies, 3 attractive female characters, but one of them is non-romanceable.

Again, they also said they planned on her being a "little sister-type BFF" for ME1, which Idk..doesn't make sense. Let's say Tali had zero support after ME1...would Bioware simply send her off to finish her Pilgrimage and not have her return with Shepard in ME2?

And then you have Garrus...would he have been a LI? Made him a LI based on fandom OR for balance because of Tali?

I really don't know, but you're right, Bioware struck gold

[Someone With Mass]

Rakia_Time wrote...

Hi guys, what's up ?

The usual talk about Tali coming back in ME3.

[Goat_Shepard]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...
It's not a fear of Tali not returning, it's a fear of a diminished role.

So it's 100x better if Tali's with you even though she doesn't have a
plot, that's still saying "no more spotlight, maybe you'll get 2 romance
convos again" it just makes me think "pew pew....meh".

Like I've said many, many times, it'd be utter stupidity if the geth/quarian conflict that they set up during ME2 doesn't play a major role in ME3.  There is so much ripe story there for Legion, Tali and the main plot.  That alone, if done right, would comprise even more than Tali's loyalty mission.

And, to try out my new entrance, Captain on deck! 

lol true, but Bioware has to format the "geth/quarian conflict" so that you can complete it without Tali. That's what I mean by a diminished role. "Well they might not have Tali, so let's put this paragon option there...if they have Tali, maybe she'll be the one that does the paragon option". Sounds good enough, actually, but it wouldn't be like Tali's loyalty mission

[MrBoomba]

MadCat221 wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...

MrBoomba wrote...

I personally am in constant fear of Tali not being a LI or squad mate in ME3 for the fact she can die in ME2. Every time I think "It would be shooting themsevles in the foot" I just think of how she can die in ME2 and all my fear comes rushing back... Which is why I keep in this thread, I do hope they dont, but damnit most games that have a character able to die in a game normally dont come back as a recruitable in the next game

True. I guess we're gauranteed a spot for Tali in ME3...but we need to know the extent of her appearance, and the bigger this thread grows, maybe her role increases. That's at least the mindset here on this thread. It's still silly, because we should know that every squadmember can die and therefor it can be assumed that simply all the squaddies will have less dialogue/less influence.

Tali in ME2 will be considered the Golden Age of Talimance, since I suspect there won't be AS MUCH epicness for Tali in ME3 as in ME2, but compared to the other squaddies, I think she'll come out looking pretty good.

And the dramatic ending might actually be better than ME2's ending

I'm predicting all the chars will have "replacement" chars if they died, ones that you can opt for in place of current chars as well if they survived.  Say... Veetor replaces Tali if she died, or if you opt for Veetor instead, or something.  If Samara/Morinth died, you can get that one Asari chick that was on Feros. 

If those chars are dead too, well then, you're paying the price for your Renegadeness.  What, you didn't think there'd be repercussions?  Typical renegade...  <_<

Yes, this is a very good point. Looking back at ME1(the year ago I had played it) I do remember many characters you save who devote themselves to some sort of way to make up for their missdeeds or something as such. This is most likely the replacements if characters die in ME2 that is, if the speculations on this topic is on spot.

[NuclearBuddha]

Son, I am disappoint.

[Someone With Mass]

Goat_Shepard wrote...


lol true, but Bioware has to format the "geth/quarian conflict" so that you can complete it without Tali. That's what I mean by a diminished role. "Well they might not have Tali, so let's put this paragon option there...if they have Tali, maybe she'll be the one that does the paragon option". Sounds good enough, actually, but it wouldn't be like Tali's loyalty mission

Tali's missions were the best ones, hand down. Almost got a little nostalgic when it was time to shoot geth in the face again.

[Goat_Shepard]

MadCat221 wrote...

I'm predicting all the chars will have "replacement" chars if they died, ones that you can opt for in place of current chars as well if they survived.  Say... Veetor replaces Tali if she died, or if you opt for Veetor instead, or something.  If Samara/Morinth died, you can get that one Asari chick that was on Feros. 

If those chars are dead too, well then, you're paying the price for your Renegadeness.  What, you didn't think there'd be repercussions?  Typical renegade...  <_<

I thought the replacement character thing would happen, but that is sort of rewarding your Renegadeness, isn't it? New content if you kill your squad?

I think there will be no replacement characters, MAYBE two brand new squaddies (Batarian, Vorcha???)

[Phil725]

Goat_Shepard wrote...
*snip*

The only thing I ever heard was "we didn't think people would like her chicken feet". But I think that's a smokescreen. Bioware isn't dumb, look at ME1, you got all those squaddies, 3 attractive female characters, but one of them is non-romanceable.

Again, they also said they planned on her being a "little sister-type BFF" for ME1, which Idk..doesn't make sense. Let's say Tali had zero support after ME1...would Bioware simply send her off to finish her Pilgrimage and not have her return with Shepard in ME2?

And then you have Garrus...would he have been a LI? Made him a LI based on fandom OR for balance because of Tali?

I really don't know, but you're right, Bioware struck gold

I think the whole "chicken feet" thing was just in response to her being so popular.  It would be stupid on their part to expect her to be completely unpopular, especially when they can tell her character is intriguing and mysterious.  It is possible that they didn't expect this much though.

I think Garrus and Tali were always set to come back in ME2 as well.  That was pretty much their only selling point to ME1 fans.  "Hey, we've changed pretty much everything about ME1, but Tali and Garrus are back :wizard:"

I think they could tell that the romance arcs for those characters would be more emotionally engaging as well.  When the biggest limitation to a believable romance is it happening in 3 conversations, you can't replace the time factor for those two.  I don't see how Bioware could have possibly missed that opportunity, and they didn't.

[MrBoomba]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Son, I am disappoint.

This needs to be fixed... Now

[Someone With Mass]

Phil725 wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...
*snip*

The only thing I ever heard was "we didn't think people would like her chicken feet". But I think that's a smokescreen. Bioware isn't dumb, look at ME1, you got all those squaddies, 3 attractive female characters, but one of them is non-romanceable.

Again, they also said they planned on her being a "little sister-type BFF" for ME1, which Idk..doesn't make sense. Let's say Tali had zero support after ME1...would Bioware simply send her off to finish her Pilgrimage and not have her return with Shepard in ME2?

And then you have Garrus...would he have been a LI? Made him a LI based on fandom OR for balance because of Tali?

I really don't know, but you're right, Bioware struck gold

I think the whole "chicken feet" thing was just in response to her being so popular.  It would be stupid on their part to expect her to be completely unpopular, especially when they can tell her character is intriguing and mysterious.  It is possible that they didn't expect this much though.

I think Garrus and Tali were always set to come back in ME2 as well.  That was pretty much their only selling point to ME1 fans.  "Hey, we've changed pretty much everything about ME1, but Tali and Garrus are back :wizard:"

I think they could tell that the romance arcs for those characters would be more emotionally engaging as well.  When the biggest limitation to a believable romance is it happening in 3 conversations, you can't replace the time factor for those two.  I don't see how Bioware could have possibly missed that opportunity, and they didn't.

Or maybe they just wanted to expand on the story of the quarians. Tali was the only one in the first game.

[JeanLuc761]

Goat_Shepard wrote...

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Goat_Shepard wrote...
It's not a fear of Tali not returning, it's a fear of a diminished role.

So it's 100x better if Tali's with you even though she doesn't have a
plot, that's still saying "no more spotlight, maybe you'll get 2 romance
convos again" it just makes me think "pew pew....meh".

Like I've said many, many times, it'd be utter stupidity if the geth/quarian conflict that they set up during ME2 doesn't play a major role in ME3.  There is so much ripe story there for Legion, Tali and the main plot.  That alone, if done right, would comprise even more than Tali's loyalty mission.

And, to try out my new entrance, Captain on deck! 

lol true, but Bioware has to format the "geth/quarian conflict" so that you can complete it without Tali. That's what I mean by a diminished role. "Well they might not have Tali, so let's put this paragon option there...if they have Tali, maybe she'll be the one that does the paragon option". Sounds good enough, actually, but it wouldn't be like Tali's loyalty mission

While you make a good point, Tali shouldn't be INTEGRAL to the conflict resolution, Bioware could put just as much character emphasis on her during that subplot as they did during her loyalty mission.  For example, and this is actually the basic plot for a fanfiction I have coming up:

Tali could have some business to take care of on the Flotilla (memorial service for her father or something, quarians only).  While she's gone, Legion tells you that he wishes to go to Rannoch, to show you the planet.  They go, and Legion demonstrates how the geth have been cleaning up the world, making it suitable for rehabilitation.  Shepard returns to the flotilla, excited as all hell, and makes a formal announcement to the Admirality board that the geth are willing to enter peace negociations and return the homeworld.  

Now, at no point in this was Tali crucial to this entire process, but delivering the news direct to her face will hold 100x more meaning than if she was not around.  

[Phil725]

MrBoomba wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...
*snip*

I'm predicting all the chars will have "replacement" chars if they died, ones that you can opt for in place of current chars as well if they survived.  Say... Veetor replaces Tali if she died, or if you opt for Veetor instead, or something.  If Samara/Morinth died, you can get that one Asari chick that was on Feros. 

If those chars are dead too, well then, you're paying the price for your Renegadeness.  What, you didn't think there'd be repercussions?  Typical renegade...  <_<

Yes, this is a very good point. Looking back at ME1(the year ago I had played it) I do remember many characters you save who devote themselves to some sort of way to make up for their missdeeds or something as such. This is most likely the replacements if characters die in ME2 that is, if the speculations on this topic is on spot.

No chance for this happening in my mind.  Its too much writing to make 24+ squad mates.  Replacement characters just aren't practical, you're denying half of the game content to people without ME2, and it isn't making people pay for their bad choices at all.  I really think its as simple as they're dead, you go on without them. 

[smecky-kitteh]

bye bye tali fans

[NuclearBuddha]

Someone With Mass wrote...
Or maybe they just wanted to expand on the story of the quarians. Tali was the only one in the first game.

There seems like a disproportionate focus on quarians, though.  I mean, we know a lot about them (aside from the obvious) for a race that is a drop in the ocean on a galactic scale.  In ME1 we got Tali's chatter on them (which seemed like the most amount of talk on any single race).  In ME2 her dialogue far outpaces all the other dialogue in terms of length.  Even one of the novels featured quarians heavily.