258292 réponses à ce sujet

[JeanLuc761]

Shadowomega23 wrote...

Well then, good we still have Big Foot, to deal with, cause it doesn't look like he is in that pile.

*looks down*
HE ESCAPED! 
Keep a low profile 


Also, this Emily Wong interview "minific"?  Yeah, it's not so "mini" 

[Azint]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Huh...

Must have missed that bit...

Need to make some edits to my unfinished fanfics...

Do some assignments during the epilogue then speak to Legion. A lot of very interesting conversations.

[Azint]

sergio71785 wrote...

I once found bigfoot. I was going to cut off his feet, but some Omicronians stopped me.

Lrrr

[RiptideX1090]

sergio71785 wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Which they did, to Shepard. The reason they chose Shepard and not the council, is because... well, the council are idiots for one, they wouldn't believe the geth, and Shepard is unique. Like Legion says, Shepard isn't bound by the hardware limitations of most organics, his code is superior, he is willing to work with Legion, to work with the geth, because he's Shepard. He's special like that. It's likely that the geth realize what Shepard is, what he symbolizes, and if anyone can change the galaxy's mind about the geth, Shepard is the one who can do it. You have to start somewhere, and Shepard is the most logical first stepping stone.

Maybe I just don't agree with their process of doing it. If it were my call, I'd send some unarmed probe with a link to the geth collective to let them know. Or hell, send the council a few emails--the geth do have access to the extranet.

Obviously, I don't actually expect them to send them an email, it's just an example. Sending a single mobile platform to talk to the guy that's more used to killing geth than any other in the galaxy just doesn't seem so practical. 

Look at it from the geth's perspective.

They know organics fear them. Their creators tried to wipe them out for merely existing, and they know the galaxy fears them for what the did to the quarians. They also know, that if they came forward to the Citadel, the council would then HAVE to accept what Sovereign was, and you KNOW they'd rather pin it on the geth so they don't have to face that. Even if the true geth came forward, as Legion tried to do if he meets the council, they'd just deflect it as a lie.

Which is why going to Shepard makes sense. Shepard is unique. He knows what the Reapers are, and he has fought them and the Heretics. He's the only logical choice the geth have in an organic ally.

[Zilod]

sergio71785 wrote...

Azint wrote...

Collider wrote...

Pretty please? I want to know if the Geth had actually ever tried to talk for peace. Maybe I just missed it in Legion's conversation.

I wasn't being clear: the geth have only begun seeking outside contact two years ago in-game, to find Shepard. One of the first things Legion says is that the geth are open to peace, but Legion is the first geth to reveal this. The quarians generally hate the geth because they were taught to, history taught them, but the geth have changed, they are in fact sorry. No one knew this until Legion told Shepard, that was their first contact.

Yeah, but no one still knows it except Shepard.

The geth could've sent some unarmed probe to the citadel with a link to the geth collective to communicate peace if they had any interest. 

The fact that they didn't say "Whoa, hold on dudes, those guys that attacked you wasn't us... they're just some retards that broke away from the rest of us." after the citadel attack is mind boggling.

it seem that geths are open to peace but not so "interested" in formalizing it... probably because they think it is possible atm and as long as other races leave them alone it suits to their need and they can keep studying other races and to evolve rather than get deep in politics with creatures they dont know or understand

also i suppose they dont really fear the council races... the heretic fleet almost destroyed the council forces and it seem heretics had less forces compared to "true geths" who still hold the core worlds in perseus veil

[Nivenus]

Collider wrote...

The Geth in ME1 were only depicted as omnicidal robots. Literally. And seeing how there is no personal individuality among the Geth, how are people to assume that the Geth aren't all the same, considering how there is no "I," only "we?" Shepard CAN say that he thinks the Geth were only fighting back, but he doesn't have to. It's not only renegade responses, neutral responses also don't say that they were only fighting back.

I think at least one of the neutral responses was also (a milder version of) "what the hell," more along the lines of "you didn't expect them to defend themselves?" or "that was stupid" than "you tried to wipe them out?"

Anyhow, in regards to ME1, I'm not going to dispute the depiction of the geth in ME1 because you're largely right - except, of course, that the geth were clearly motivated by their belief that Sovereign was the robot messiah and the aforementioned lines in conversations with Tali. These little bits, along with the somewhat sympathetic (although, in the end, still hostile) depiction of the AI terminal on the Citadel made me think that BioWare might not be going with the AI = evil route.

EDIT: My point was that, while it may not be the majority opinion, Shepard's responses indicate that more than a few people in the galaxy believe the geth could be engaged with peacefully.

Modifié par Nivenus, 22 avril 2010 - 06:58 .

[sergio71785]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Look at it from the geth's perspective.

They know organics fear them. Their creators tried to wipe them out for merely existing, and they know the galaxy fears them for what the did to the quarians. They also know, that if they came forward to the Citadel, the council would then HAVE to accept what Sovereign was, and you KNOW they'd rather pin it on the geth so they don't have to face that. Even if the true geth came forward, as Legion tried to do if he meets the council, they'd just deflect it as a lie.

Which is why going to Shepard makes sense. Shepard is unique. He knows what the Reapers are, and he has fought them and the Heretics. He's the only logical choice the geth have in an organic ally.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. <3

I just genuinely think there would've been better ways to begin the process of communicating with organics. 

[RiptideX1090]

sergio71785 wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Look at it from the geth's perspective.

They know organics fear them. Their creators tried to wipe them out for merely existing, and they know the galaxy fears them for what the did to the quarians. They also know, that if they came forward to the Citadel, the council would then HAVE to accept what Sovereign was, and you KNOW they'd rather pin it on the geth so they don't have to face that. Even if the true geth came forward, as Legion tried to do if he meets the council, they'd just deflect it as a lie.

Which is why going to Shepard makes sense. Shepard is unique. He knows what the Reapers are, and he has fought them and the Heretics. He's the only logical choice the geth have in an organic ally.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. <3

I just genuinely think there would've been better ways to begin the process of communicating with organics. 

If you say so.

We'll see what comes of the path they've set up in Mass Effect 3, at least.

[Collider]

Nivenus wrote...
Anyhow, in regards to ME1, I'm not going to dispute the depiction of the geth in ME1 because you're largely right - except, of course, that the geth were clearly motivated by their belief that Sovereign was the robot messiah and the aforementioned lines in conversations with Tali. These little bits, along with the somewhat sympathetic (although, in the end, still hostile) depiction of the AI terminal on the Citadel made me think that BioWare might not be going with the AI = evil route.

If you view this in terms of ME2, it makes sense. The Geth aren't omnicidal at the moment of ME2, instead it was only the Heretics. Bioware had some of the trilogy written down already. but if you view ME1 independently, they go basically go that the current Geth are bad. Religious fanatacism has ZERO to do with this. Religious terrorists, who exist in the real world, are no less responsible for their actions than they would be if without religion influence. Those Geth chose to fight for Sovereign. And since we only see Heretic Geth, and since the Quarians have only seen violent Geth after they evolved, I think distrust of AI is justified. Actually, the stuff you saw on the citadel were VIs, not AIs. Unless you mean that AI sidequest in which the AI wanted to blow everything up.

[sergio71785]

I want to hear a quarian singing. 

[Zilod]

Nivenus wrote...

Collider wrote...

The Geth in ME1 were only depicted as omnicidal robots. Literally. And seeing how there is no personal individuality among the Geth, how are people to assume that the Geth aren't all the same, considering how there is no "I," only "we?" Shepard CAN say that he thinks the Geth were only fighting back, but he doesn't have to. It's not only renegade responses, neutral responses also don't say that they were only fighting back.

I think at least one of the neutral responses was also (a milder version of) "what the hell," more along the lines of "you didn't expect them to defend themselves?" or "that was stupid" than "you tried to wipe them out?"

Anyhow, in regards to ME1, I'm not going to dispute the depiction of the geth in ME1 because you're largely right - except, of course, that the geth were clearly motivated by their belief that Sovereign was the robot messiah and the aforementioned lines in conversations with Tali. These little bits, along with the somewhat sympathetic (although, in the end, still hostile) depiction of the AI terminal on the Citadel made me think that BioWare might not be going with the AI = evil route.

EDIT: My point was that, while it may not be the majority opinion, Shepard's responses indicate that more than a few people in the galaxy believe the geth could be engaged with peacefully.

well even in me1 is hinted that there are different factions among the geths, Tali says that when she speak about her pilgramage and when you recover the data you get the description of the quarian who sing a sad song (or something like that) suggesting that geths actually are still kinda "linked" to the quarians and are not just "killing machines"

there is not much explanation around the issue and for sure is not developed, but the infos are alredy there

[Strawberry Kiwi]

I'm gonna sneak out now, while you guys are confuzzled in that debate of yours...

Modifié par Strawberry Kiwi, 22 avril 2010 - 07:04 .

[JeanLuc761]

 A brief excerpt from the start of my Citadel NewsNet interview:

Emily Wong: Shepard, it was nearly two and a half years ago that you and your team defeated Saren and his geth here at the Citadel. Three months later, all of you disappeared off of the radar. Can you explain what happened?
There is a long pause, Tali grabs Shepard's hand, Shepard takes a deep breath

Shepard: While on a routine mission looking for geth insurgents, the Normandy was ambushed by an unknown enemy ship, later identified as belonging to the Collectors. We never stood a chance. I ordered a general evac, and most of the crew were able to make it to the escape pods. My pilot, Jeff Moreau, remained in the cockpit in the hopes he could save the ship. I ran to the bridge to force him to evacuate. I was able to get him safely to the escape pod, but before I could get inside the Normandy was gutted by a nearby energy projectile. The force threw me against the bulkhead, and my only option was to manually press the eject button for the pod.

Emily Wong: ...So how did you survive that?

Shepard: ...I didn't...a fuel line sparked and detonated, tossing me into space. I watched as the Normandy disintegrated around me. I thought there was a chance I would make it, but as the ship finally detonated, a piece of shrapnel severed my oxygen supply. The last thing I remember from that was struggling vainly to maximize my oxygen supply...I suffocated in under fifteen seconds.

An extremely long pause

Emily Wong: My god...how...how are you here now?

Shepard: I got lucky, with a lot of strings attached. Cerberus, the pro-human group, recovered my body. They spent two years working with their top scientists, attempting to bring me back. Two years and 12 days later, they succeeded, and I awoke from their medically induced coma.

Emily Wong: This is...unbelievable. Miss Zorah, did you or anyone else know about this?

Tali: No, we weren't told a thing. At the time, we all still thought Shepard was dead. It was...the most shocking moment of my life when he returned...looking exactly as he did on the day he was killed.

Emily Wong: It...must have been very difficult for you when Shepard died.

Tali: Yes...it was. I think it was the biggest loss any of us have ever experienced. Shepard was more than a commander...her was our friend. Losing him tore us apart...and we all went our separate ways.

I'm currently writing it in the style of a transcript, but I'll probably translate it to a more traditional format later.

Modifié par JeanLuc761, 22 avril 2010 - 07:03 .

[JeanLuc761]

sergio71785 wrote...



I want to hear Tali singing. 

Fixed 

[Collider]

Nivenus wrote...
EDIT: My point was that, while it may not be the majority opinion, Shepard's responses indicate that more than a few people in the galaxy believe the geth could be engaged with peacefully.

Shepard actually gives no indication of this. He basically just says that the Geth fought back, not that peace is currently achievable. As Azint said, prior to Legion, the Geth made no attempts for peace.

[Azint]

sergio71785 wrote...



I want to hear a quarian singing. 

I want to see more of their culture, more than any other race.

[Nivenus]

Incidentally, I went ahead and looked up the bit about the geth attacking ambassadors.

No such statement that I could found (it may exist though). There is, however, a wider statement that the geth attacked any ships that ventured into the Veil. Some of these may have been ambassadors, as far as I can tell, the geth didn't bother to check. Unsurprisingly, this shows that the geth were just as afraid of organics venturing into the Veil as organics are of geth venturing outside of it.

I think what people tend to forget is that both sides are in the wrong here. The quarians may have unnecessarily incited the fight, but the geth sure as hell finished it. Both sides have reason to be upset. Ultimately, I think the responsibility lies on the quarians (though I would never say they deserve their fate or that modern quarians should be held responsible) but that doesn't negate the wrongs committed by the geth themselves.

Collider wrote...

Nivenus wrote...
EDIT: My point was that, while it may not be the majority opinion, Shepard's responses indicate that more than a few people in the galaxy believe the geth could be engaged with peacefully.

Shepard actually gives no indication of this. He basically just says that the Geth fought back, not that peace is currently achievable. As Azint said, prior to Legion, the Geth made no attempts for peace.

Sure he gives an indication. It indicates that some organics feel at least a small degree of sympathy for the geth, which indicates a hope for peace. Sure, it's not outright said, but there is such a thing as reading between the lines and critical thinking. What the line implies is more than what it says.

Again, I'm not indicating this is the majority view, but it certainly seems to exist (similar evidence exists in the Codex along the lines of activists who believe "synthetic" is a more politically correct term than "AI").

Modifié par Nivenus, 22 avril 2010 - 07:08 .

[Lividity Jones]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

 A brief excerpt from the start of my Citadel NewsNet interview:

Emily Wong: Shepard, it was nearly two and a half years ago that you and your team defeated Saren and his geth here at the Citadel. Three months later, all of you disappeared off of the radar. Can you explain what happened?
There is a long pause, Tali grabs Shepard's hand, Shepard takes a deep breath

Shepard: While on a routine mission looking for geth insurgents, the Normandy was ambushed by an unknown enemy ship, later identified as belonging to the Collectors. We never stood a chance. I ordered a general evac, and most of the crew were able to make it to the escape pods. My pilot, Jeff Moreau, remained in the cockpit in the hopes he could save the ship. I ran to the bridge to force him to evacuate. I was able to get him safely to the escape pod, but before I could get inside the Normandy was gutted by a nearby energy projectile. The force threw me against the bulkhead, and my only option was to manually press the eject button for the pod.

Emily Wong: ...So how did you survive that?

Shepard: ...I didn't...a fuel line sparked and detonated, tossing me into space. I watched as the Normandy disintegrated around me. I thought there was a chance I would make it, but as the ship finally detonated, a piece of shrapnel severed my oxygen supply. The last thing I remember from that was struggling vainly to maximize my oxygen supply...I suffocated in under fifteen seconds.

An extremely long pause

Emily Wong: My god...how...how are you here now?

Shepard: I got lucky, with a lot of strings attached. Cerberus, the pro-human group, recovered my body. They spent two years working with their top scientists, attempting to bring me back. Two years and 12 days later, they succeeded, and I awoke from their medically induced coma.

Emily Wong: This is...unbelievable. Miss Zorah, did you or anyone else know about this?

Tali: No, we weren't told a thing. At the time, we all still thought Shepard was dead. It was...the most shocking moment of my life when he returned...looking exactly as he did on the day he was killed.

Emily Wong: It...must have been very difficult for you when Shepard died.

Tali: Yes...it was. I think it was the biggest loss any of us have ever experienced. Shepard was more than a commander...her was our friend. Losing him tore us apart...and we all went our separate ways.

I'm currently writing it in the style of a transcript, but I'll probably translate it to a more traditional format later.

Yes! Yeeesss!

More! Write more!

It is glorious!

[pvt fc jenkins]

[Nivenus]

DOUBLE POST

Modifié par Nivenus, 22 avril 2010 - 07:07 .

[sergio71785]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

 A brief excerpt from the start of my Citadel NewsNet interview:

Emily Wong: Shepard, it was nearly two and a half years ago that you and your team defeated Saren and his geth here at the Citadel. Three months later, all of you disappeared off of the radar. Can you explain what happened?
There is a long pause, Tali grabs Shepard's hand, Shepard takes a deep breath

Shepard: While on a routine mission looking for geth insurgents, the Normandy was ambushed by an unknown enemy ship, later identified as belonging to the Collectors. We never stood a chance. I ordered a general evac, and most of the crew were able to make it to the escape pods. My pilot, Jeff Moreau, remained in the cockpit in the hopes he could save the ship. I ran to the bridge to force him to evacuate. I was able to get him safely to the escape pod, but before I could get inside the Normandy was gutted by a nearby energy projectile. The force threw me against the bulkhead, and my only option was to manually press the eject button for the pod.

Emily Wong: ...So how did you survive that?

Shepard: ...I didn't...a fuel line sparked and detonated, tossing me into space. I watched as the Normandy disintegrated around me. I thought there was a chance I would make it, but as the ship finally detonated, a piece of shrapnel severed my oxygen supply. The last thing I remember from that was struggling vainly to maximize my oxygen supply...I suffocated in under fifteen seconds.

An extremely long pause

Emily Wong: My god...how...how are you here now?

Shepard: I got lucky, with a lot of strings attached. Cerberus, the pro-human group, recovered my body. They spent two years working with their top scientists, attempting to bring me back. Two years and 12 days later, they succeeded, and I awoke from their medically induced coma.

Emily Wong: This is...unbelievable. Miss Zorah, did you or anyone else know about this?

Tali: No, we weren't told a thing. At the time, we all still thought Shepard was dead. It was...the most shocking moment of my life when he returned...looking exactly as he did on the day he was killed.

Emily Wong: It...must have been very difficult for you when Shepard died.

Tali: Yes...it was. I think it was the biggest loss any of us have ever experienced. Shepard was more than a commander...her was our friend. Losing him tore us apart...and we all went our separate ways.

I'm currently writing it in the style of a transcript, but I'll probably translate it to a more traditional format later.

One very minor thing I noticed. At the start, I think it should be "here on the Citadel" rather than "here at the Citadel" 

"At" kinda implies somewhere other than the current location.

[Archonsg]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

sergio71785 wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Look at it from the geth's perspective.

They know organics fear them. Their creators tried to wipe them out for merely existing, and they know the galaxy fears them for what the did to the quarians. They also know, that if they came forward to the Citadel, the council would then HAVE to accept what Sovereign was, and you KNOW they'd rather pin it on the geth so they don't have to face that. Even if the true geth came forward, as Legion tried to do if he meets the council, they'd just deflect it as a lie.

Which is why going to Shepard makes sense. Shepard is unique. He knows what the Reapers are, and he has fought them and the Heretics. He's the only logical choice the geth have in an organic ally.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. <3

I just genuinely think there would've been better ways to begin the process of communicating with organics. 

If you say so.

We'll see what comes of the path they've set up in Mass Effect 3, at least.

One thing of note here. IF the council and almost everyone in power and control of media / infomation are willing to disregard the reaper threat, and was willing to write Shepard off as a loon even after he saved them and proved that there might actually be something to what he is saying, what chance has the geth have at any hope of communications?
The Salarian council member would flip flop between indecision and incredubility, the Asari would just fade into the background letting the Turian say "It's a trap! I say we bomb them all!"

Modifié par Archonsg, 22 avril 2010 - 07:09 .

[RiptideX1090]

Archonsg wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

sergio71785 wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Look at it from the geth's perspective.

They know organics fear them. Their creators tried to wipe them out for merely existing, and they know the galaxy fears them for what the did to the quarians. They also know, that if they came forward to the Citadel, the council would then HAVE to accept what Sovereign was, and you KNOW they'd rather pin it on the geth so they don't have to face that. Even if the true geth came forward, as Legion tried to do if he meets the council, they'd just deflect it as a lie.

Which is why going to Shepard makes sense. Shepard is unique. He knows what the Reapers are, and he has fought them and the Heretics. He's the only logical choice the geth have in an organic ally.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. <3

I just genuinely think there would've been better ways to begin the process of communicating with organics. 

If you say so.

We'll see what comes of the path they've set up in Mass Effect 3, at least.

One thing of note here. IF the council and almost everyone in power and control of media / infomation are willing to disregard the reaper threat, and was willing to write Shepard off as a loon even after he saved them and proved that there might actually be something to what he is saying, what chance has the geth have at any hope of communications?
The Salarian council member would flip flop between indecision and incredubility, the Asari would just fade into the background letting the Turian say "It's a trap! I saw we bomb them all!"

Isn't that more or less what I just said?