258292 réponses à ce sujet

[epoch_]

Alphyn wrote...

Why are we talking about raping Tali? Surely, there must be something else to talk about! D:

I don't understand. What else is there to talk about

[Pacifien]

Azint wrote...
If I were to make an issue about her romance; I would not choose pedophilia or rape as my arguement. Both words are strongly used, and people get upset when they are thrown around. It is bad for the arguement when even one party is making an issue of semantics in a fictional setting that has events far more questionable than simple age differences in a romance.

But as far as I can tell, no one made that accusation while people play the argument as if the accusation has been made.

[Tairis Deamhan]

Alphyn wrote...

Why are we talking about raping Tali? Surely, there must be something else to talk about! D:

Because apparently people cant be distracted from their silly arguement.

[Phil725]

CptSkull wrote...

Collider wrote...

Fox would just make a fool of themselves again. This happened before with their show on Mass Effect - I imagine they may be a little more cautious this time and a little more willing to check their facts before jumping the gun and essentially declaring Mass Effect to be the unholy work of satan.

I know, but the unwanted attention made BioWare not show alot in the love scenes in ME2, just a kiss and a fade to black and maybe alittle more.

I highly doubt that was the reasoning.  The scenes in ME2 weren't exactly tame, they just lacked the nudity of the first one.  There's actually a lot more suggestiveness in ME2.  I see Bioware's reasoning behind less nudity as they didn't need to do it.  The ME1 romances needed spiced up at the end, they had to make the sex scene a little nicer in order to improve the whole feel of the romance.  In ME2, they actually focused on the romance arcs instead.  They didn't have to show Jack nude (nuder I guess ) because the romance was all about just that, the romance.  The ending wasn't as important to the ME2 romances as it was to the ME1 ones.

[Ryshan]

Someone With Mass wrote...

uhdnrt wrote...

hmmmm....my music no longer pleases the muse (unable to find inspiration to write. Any suggestions for types of music?

Well, I'm listening to an old friend at the moment.

I bought this song the first time I beat the first game.

Right after I finished listening to it.

It's on my iPod.

[CptSkull]

BEHOLD, parents who blame others for their own kids mistakes:

[jtav]

I was the person Collider PM'd. I certainly don't equate romancing Tali to pedophilia. But she feels much younger than her apparent age [i}to me[/i] because of how easily flustered she is during her romance. Shepard is never allowed to be equally flustered, so it feels like he has all the emotional cards. The longstanding unrequited crush is my least favorite romance plot ever, so I was probably doomed from the beginning. I still love her as a character but neither she nor Jack or Miranda are to my taste as romantic interests at the end of the day.

[BTG_01]

As much as I hate to add to this particular debate, Tali was never a child in either game. If she were, every player would be guilty of criminal negligence by sending her into life-threatening situations.

[Someone With Mass]

CptSkull wrote...

BEHOLD, parents who blame others for their own kids mistakes:

Can't understand how such idiots are allowed to have kids in the first place.

[Alphyn]

Collider wrote...

I don't mind such scenes. I find the emotion and dialog behind the scenes to be exponentially more important. I didn't care for Miranda's scene at all. It was meaningless (so far as the scene portrays) sex. Jacob's romance scene is criticized for absolutely horrid dialog despite similar display of skin. As I understand, Jack's romance scene is to at least some people the less implying of actual sex, and by many is considered the best romance scene in the game (that is an opinion - don't kill me for saying it).

I really liked that each scene in ME2 was unique, rather than the cut and paste barbie dolls in ME1. The ME2 scenes - aside from Jacob and Miranda - had more meaning to them in my opinion.

I agree - Garrus' & Tali's romance scenes were more about trust, Miranda's & Jacob's was more about the sex and stress relief than the actual relationship, and Jack's & Thane's were about tending to the wounds that they have gained. 

I'm not sure if that is right, but it's the feeling I get...

[Azint]

Collider wrote...

I don't mind such scenes. I find the emotion and dialog behind the scenes to be exponentially more important. I didn't care for Miranda's scene at all. It was meaningless (so far as the scene portrays) sex. Jacob's romance scene is criticized for absolutely horrid dialog despite similar display of skin. As I understand, Jack's romance scene is to at least some people the less implying of actual sex, and by many is considered the best romance scene in the game (that is an opinion - don't kill me for saying it).

I really liked that each scene in ME2 was unique, rather than the cut and paste barbie dolls in ME1. The ME2 scenes - aside from Jacob and Miranda - had more meaning to them in my opinion.

My favorite arguement for adding more nudity is the one that goes "This game is rated M for Mature! More nudity makes it more mature, amIrite?"

The irony is what makes it gold.

We can all argue the worth and depth to each romance, but hardly anyone will ever come to an agreement on any of them. The best any of us can do is simply state which ones we actually liked, for whatever reason. That said, the only romances in the Mass Effect series I actually liked were Tali's, Garrus', and Jack's. I felt hardly anything for Ashley, Liara, or Kaiden. Miranda's romance seemed to standard for an action film to me, Jacob's romance is simply awkward.

Edit: Thane's romance, it bothered me.

Modifié par Azint, 03 juillet 2010 - 02:45 .

[mikethor007]

uhdnrt wrote...

mikethor007 wrote...

uhdnrt wrote...

hmmmm....my music no longer pleases the muse (unable to find inspiration to write. Any suggestions for types of music?

That music prompt failed?

Nope - just mys current music playlist (Protomen, Sun Kil Moon, and Metroid Metal) is not inspiring like I desire.  Need a new inspiration.  Preferably with lyrics.

Sorry, got a bit confused. Thought you were doing that music prompt you mentioned a few days ago.

[CptSkull]

Someone With Mass wrote...

CptSkull wrote...

BEHOLD, parents who blame others for their own kids mistakes:

Can't understand how such idiots are allowed to have kids in the first place.

I love how the kid is acting like he is some type of "victim" in the situation.

[Someone With Mass]

Phil725 wrote...

I highly doubt that was the reasoning.  The scenes in ME2 weren't exactly tame, they just lacked the nudity of the first one.  There's actually a lot more suggestiveness in ME2.  I see Bioware's reasoning behind less nudity as they didn't need to do it.  The ME1 romances needed spiced up at the end, they had to make the sex scene a little nicer in order to improve the whole feel of the romance.  In ME2, they actually focused on the romance arcs instead.  They didn't have to show Jack nude (nuder I guess ) because the romance was all about just that, the romance.  The ending wasn't as important to the ME2 romances as it was to the ME1 ones.

I completely agree with this. I actually think that some of the conversations at the drive core were more touching than the end of the romance. Especially the last one.

[CptSkull]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

I highly doubt that was the reasoning.  The scenes in ME2 weren't exactly tame, they just lacked the nudity of the first one.  There's actually a lot more suggestiveness in ME2.  I see Bioware's reasoning behind less nudity as they didn't need to do it.  The ME1 romances needed spiced up at the end, they had to make the sex scene a little nicer in order to improve the whole feel of the romance.  In ME2, they actually focused on the romance arcs instead.  They didn't have to show Jack nude (nuder I guess ) because the romance was all about just that, the romance.  The ending wasn't as important to the ME2 romances as it was to the ME1 ones.

I completely agree with this. I actually think that some of the conversations at the drive core were more touching than the end of the romance. Especially the last one.

I guess BioWare doesn't want to give the message that sex=love.

[Phil725]

Pacifien wrote...
*snip*
I'm really not going to take the website as evidence of anything. Even some details from the books have been contradicted in the game. But then we get into the realm of other fandoms where there are levels of canon. I've never bothered, which always made discussions frustrating to, say, avid Star Wars book readers.

Christina Norman mentioned human equivalent ages, but I think that was simply trying to take the easy way out for the discrepency in Mordin's age. But then someone should have probably written Samara's age as 45 or so.

Why do I think of Tali as being 20 versus 24? Her demeanor reminds me of 20 versus 24 from people I have known in my own life. That's how it goes.

If we're going to take real life equivalents into consideration, surely you know that seeing a small window of that person's behavior isn't nearly enough to judge age with any real accuracy.  What we see of Tali is just that, a small window.  As another variable, its a window when she's completely out of her element.

I'm a college student who works at a machine shop with a lot of older guys, I get mistaken for being older at the college, and younger at the shop because of the environment.  I bet Tali would look very old and mature if we followed her two years between ME1/2.

Obviously you're free to believe whatever, but it seems a lot less complicated to me to just accept the facts that are given, even if they go against perception.  A lot of things more outlandish than Tali being 22/24 are actually true in real life.

As far as book vs video game, I've always looked at stories over two different mediums as two seperate universes.  trying to make sure neither clash, or searching for that clash is usually not worth the effort.

[Blze001]

*sneaks in the back*

Lets see....two discussions....one about music and one about sex.....

Gotta love the diversity here.

[Alphyn]

Azint wrote...

My favorite arguement for adding more nudity is the one that goes "This game is rated M for Mature! More nudity makes it more mature, amIrite?"

The irony is what makes it gold.

We can all argue the worth and depth to each romance, but hardly anyone will ever come to an agreement on any of them. The best any of us can do is simply state which ones we actually liked, for whatever reason. That said, the only romances in the Mass Effect series I actually liked were Tali's, Garrus', and Jack's. I felt hardly anything for Ashley, Liara, or Kaiden. Miranda's romance seemed to standard for an action film to me, Jacob's romance is simply awkward.

I know how you feel about the Ash/Lia/Kai scenes and romance build-up: there's simply no emotion in it; at first, I didn't even know I was in a relationship until one of them came into my cabin and was all like "We're gonna totally die, so we should totally make sweet, awkward love."

[Collider]

Azint wrote...
We can all argue the worth and depth to each romance, but hardly anyone will ever come to an agreement on any of them.

That is indeed true.

The best any of us can do is simply state which ones we actually liked, for whatever reason. That said, the only romances in the Mass Effect series I actually liked were Tali's, Garrus', and Jack's. I felt hardly anything for Ashley, Liara, or Kaiden.

Aside from Liara (due to how fast it is. what happens after the romance starts is okay.), I think all of those characters you listed had great romances. That is of course opinion.

Miranda's romance seemed to standard for an action film to me,

How so? If you don't mind me asking.

Jacob's romance is simply awkward.

I definitely agree with that one.

Edit: Thane's romance, it bothered me.

Why?

[uhdnrt]

mikethor007 wrote...

Sorry, got a bit confused. Thought you were doing that music prompt you mentioned a few days ago.

Ah, now I understand.  What I have been doing lately is requesting music from the thread, to see what sort of story it inspires me to write. The last set of suggestions beget Chapter 2 of Brawling and Chapter 2 of Uncomfortable Conversations. So I am turning to the thread for further inspiration.

[CptSkull]

Alphyn wrote...

Azint wrote...

My favorite arguement for adding more nudity is the one that goes "This game is rated M for Mature! More nudity makes it more mature, amIrite?"

The irony is what makes it gold.

We can all argue the worth and depth to each romance, but hardly anyone will ever come to an agreement on any of them. The best any of us can do is simply state which ones we actually liked, for whatever reason. That said, the only romances in the Mass Effect series I actually liked were Tali's, Garrus', and Jack's. I felt hardly anything for Ashley, Liara, or Kaiden. Miranda's romance seemed to standard for an action film to me, Jacob's romance is simply awkward.

I know how you feel about the Ash/Lia/Kai scenes and romance build-up: there's simply no emotion in it; at first, I didn't even know I was in a relationship until one of them came into my cabin and was all like "We're gonna totally die, so we should totally make sweet, awkward love."

Same here, I didn't even know there were romances in the game until my 2nd playthough,

[Alphyn]

Collider wrote...

Why?

It kinda bothered me too, not sure if it's the same reason as Azint's, but it still bothered me because I felt like I was disrespecting Thane's wife; what with her being dead and all.

Thane didn't even bring up his wife during the entire romance! It's like he's totally forgotten about her and moved onto me. Most of the time, trying to forget about someone you've lost or broken-up with is a good thing, but considering that Thane will NEVER forget her, I also feel as if I'm his wife's replacement.

EDIT: I also think that Kolyat (sp?) would be very angry with me, and with good reason, considering I've just basically took the space that his mother had.

Modifié par Alphyn, 03 juillet 2010 - 02:56 .

[Someone With Mass]

Alphyn wrote...

I know how you feel about the Ash/Lia/Kai scenes and romance build-up: there's simply no emotion in it; at first, I didn't even know I was in a relationship until one of them came into my cabin and was all like "We're gonna totally die, so we should totally make sweet, awkward love."

Hi. How are you doing?

-So you do love me?

Wait, what?

-People never understood how it really works.

Uh, okay. I just wanted to check if you were injured or something.

-Join with me, Shepard! Let's do it!

I should never have talked with you. This is simply not going to work.

-You need me!

Right...I'm just going to back up to the door slowly now...

[Pacifien]

Phil725 wrote...
If we're going to take real life equivalents into consideration, surely you know that seeing a small window of that person's behavior isn't nearly enough to judge age with any real accuracy.  What we see of Tali is just that, a small window.  As another variable, its a window when she's completely out of her element.*snip*

Pretty much every character we see is only a snapshot of who they've been, who they are. So you only get out of the game what you put into it.

We probably agree age is the most trivial of details when drawing a more detailed account of a character. So the fact that you say Tali is 24 and I saw she's 20 is meaningless. Why do you say she's 24? I make the assumption it's because that's what the website says. Why do I say she's 20? Like I said, she reminds me of some people I know in real life who are 20.

Actually, they're something like 27 years old now, but when I knew them, when I compare Tali to them, they were 20.

[Azint]

Collider wrote...

Miranda's romance seemed to standard for an action film to me,

How so? If you don't mind me asking.

I have seen many PG-13 action films that had a similar trail. 

Edit: Thane's romance, it bothered me.

Why?

I felt like I was taking away from his dead wife and son.