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[Lividity Jones]

Pacifien wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...
I think... whatever Rael was before Tali's Mother's death, that person was long gone seven years later.

I think that's likely as well. For all we know, Tali's mother was the only one keeping Rael from diving completely into his work for the Fleet.

That's why I like Mordin's conversation about his nephew, the need to maintain a very personal connection even though his work leads him toward galaxy-turning events. Anyone that dedicated to the cause needs to remember who they're even doing it all for.

Exactly.

Rael put so much of himself into his research that he lost sight of why he was doing it to the point of abuse.

[Phil725]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Well, okay, how about Mari meets Rael in a positive light? There had to be good times between the two before work consumed him.

Are you asking for when they meet or Rael not being a dick in the relationship for once?

So you think Rael was a dick the first time he met Tali's mother?

I think... whatever Rael was before Tali's Mother's death, that person was long gone seven years later.

I do envision him being a much better person before Tali's mother dies.  I assume he was always work first, but you can be work first and still be a good husband/father. I assume his wife's death is what pushed him off the deep end.

[nickFury]

Collider wrote...

I'm not sure whether I would call Rael a "douchebag" father. He clearly cared about Tali, his methods were just off the mark...in the case of the experiments, very off the mark. He's sort of a lesser version of Miranda's father, in a way, but much more sympathetic.

Great *looks at previous post* way to make me feel bad

[Someone With Mass]

Oh. Rael hate/sympathy-mode. That's cool. I can deal with that.

[SpatFieya]

*Fly's back into thread on segway*





Talithread, how I've missed thee!

[Pacifien]

Lividity Jones wrote...
*snip*
Rael was selfless in his efforts to give Tali a home, ignoring the damage his absence did to her.

Some good people simply don't know what it takes to be a good parent. Would Han'Gerrol and Shala'Raan really say Rael was a bad person as a contemporary? He drove his only child to extremes to the point where she could both appreciate all that she had to learn as well as resent everything it took to get her there.

I don't think Tali will look back on her father for his failures in her upbringing or how he came to his end so much as everything else he accomplished that improved the fleet.

[Lividity Jones]

Pacifien wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...
*snip*
Rael was selfless in his efforts to give Tali a home, ignoring the damage his absence did to her.

Some good people simply don't know what it takes to be a good parent. Would Han'Gerrol and Shala'Raan really say Rael was a bad person as a contemporary? He drove his only child to extremes to the point where she could both appreciate all that she had to learn as well as resent everything it took to get her there.

I don't think Tali will look back on her father for his failures in her upbringing or how he came to his end so much as everything else he accomplished that improved the fleet.

Maybe, maybe not.

The dialogue she has if you ignore the Paragon Interrupt, which you have to be a souless bastard to do, suggests otherwise.

[Collider]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Collider wrote...

I'm not sure whether I would call Rael a "douchebag" father. He clearly cared about Tali, his methods were just off the mark...in the case of the experiments, very off the mark. He's sort of a lesser version of Miranda's father, in a way, but much more sympathetic.

Miranda's father was narcessistic at his very core.

That's true.

Rael was selfless in his efforts to give Tali a home, ignoring the damage his absence did to her.

I think there's a significant difference there.

Also true. I still need to think about this one. I can't say he's the best father ever. She seemed awfully strict and posessive. And he never spent time with her. Politics consumed his life.

[Aesaar]

Rael: The most flanderised character in this thread.

"I know he cares about me, but he never really showed it." Tali's words.

Now, pretty much everyone's taken that to mean the only times he ever spent with Tali were spent giving orders. Other than that, he doesn't care.

Ridiculous.

Modifié par Aesaar, 04 juillet 2010 - 02:52 .

[Someone With Mass]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Maybe, maybe not.

The dialogue she has if you ignore the Paragon Interrupt, which you have to be a souless bastard to do, suggests otherwise.

I wouldn't exactly call Sergio a soulless bastard.

[Pacifien]

Lividity Jones wrote...
Maybe, maybe not.

The dialogue she has if you ignore the Paragon Interrupt, which you have to be a souless bastard to do, suggests otherwise.

To be fair, it's an extremely emotional moment for her. Whatever she says is all emotion driven and she'd likely say different under calmer circumstances.

In the end, she risked her own exile for her father even though that was exactly what he wouldn't have wanted her to do.

[Lividity Jones]

Aesaar wrote...

Rael: The most flanderised character in this thread.

"I know he cares about me, but he never really showed it." Tali's words.

Now, pretty much everyone's taken that to mean the only times he ever spent with Tali were spent giving orders. Other than that, he doesn't care.

Ridiculous.

Considering the fact that his dying words to her were orders, yeah.

[SpatFieya]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

Maybe, maybe not.

The dialogue she has if you ignore the Paragon Interrupt, which you have to be a souless bastard to do, suggests otherwise.

I wouldn't exactly call Sergio a soulless bastard.

How did Serg get into this?

[Collider]

I actually prefer not hugging Tali because you get more dialog and information about her that way. Doesn't make me a "soulless bastard."

[Pacifien]

I like the strong emotion behind the paragon interrupt, but in the end, my Shepard simply isn't a hugger.

ETA: The hug I'm forced to give Liara irks me. More like "'sup, girl. So I hear you're channeling your mother now. That's cool."

Modifié par Pacifien, 04 juillet 2010 - 02:56 .

[RiptideX1090]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...
I think... whatever Rael was before Tali's Mother's death, that person was long gone seven years later.

I think that's likely as well. For all we know, Tali's mother was the only one keeping Rael from diving completely into his work for the Fleet.

That's why I like Mordin's conversation about his nephew, the need to maintain a very personal connection even though his work leads him toward galaxy-turning events. Anyone that dedicated to the cause needs to remember who they're even doing it all for.

Exactly.

Rael put so much of himself into his research that he lost sight of why he was doing it to the point of abuse.

I think the Noir puts this into perspective.

He was sending his only family on suicide misisons.

Great job dad, if you loved her so much, YOU'D be the one out there taking on the entire Geth Armada.

[Someone With Mass]

SpatFieya wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

Maybe, maybe not.

The dialogue she has if you ignore the Paragon Interrupt, which you have to be a souless bastard to do, suggests otherwise.

I wouldn't exactly call Sergio a soulless bastard.

How did Serg get into this?

He made a video of that moment where he didn't push the button for the Paragon hug.

[Lividity Jones]

Collider wrote...

I actually prefer not hugging Tali because you get more dialog and information about her that way. Doesn't make me a "soulless bastard."

Pacifien wrote...

I like the strong emotion behind the paragon interrupt, but in the end, my Shepard simply isn't a hugger.

Wow.

Okay... I'm not sure how to respond to that...

[Collider]

Rip, was it Rael sending her on the missions, or was it the Admiralty Board in general? I thought it was the Admiralty Board in general and Rael just said to Tali to pick up whatever geth parts she could find while conducting the missions.

[Collider]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Collider wrote...

I actually prefer not hugging Tali because you get more dialog and information about her that way. Doesn't make me a "soulless bastard."

Pacifien wrote...

I like the strong emotion behind the paragon interrupt, but in the end, my Shepard simply isn't a hugger.

Wow.

Okay... I'm not sure how to respond to that...

Uh?

[Pacifien]

Lividity Jones wrote...
Wow.

Okay... I'm not sure how to respond to that...

Just assume I have no soul.

[Aesaar]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Aesaar wrote...

Rael: The most flanderised character in this thread.

"I know he cares about me, but he never really showed it." Tali's words.

Now, pretty much everyone's taken that to mean the only times he ever spent with Tali were spent giving orders. Other than that, he doesn't care.

Ridiculous.

Considering the fact that his dying words to her were orders, yeah.

He never struck me as someone who'll put sentimentality above actually solving a problem.  Sure, he could have done the same thing as the mother on one of videos and died while telling her he loves her, but really, what does that accomplish?  Doesn't solve the problem.  Instead, he does something practical, which could prevent Tali from being exiled (if she'd done as he wanted).

[Lividity Jones]

Collider wrote...

Rip, was it Rael sending her on the missions, or was it the Admiralty Board in general? I thought it was the Admiralty Board in general and Rael just said to Tali to pick up whatever geth parts she could find while conducting the missions.

Which means he was totally cool with it.

Would you be dandy about sending your only child into a place filled with genocidal robots?