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[RiptideX1090]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Aesaar wrote...

Rael: The most flanderised character in this thread.

"I know he cares about me, but he never really showed it." Tali's words.

Now, pretty much everyone's taken that to mean the only times he ever spent with Tali were spent giving orders. Other than that, he doesn't care.

Ridiculous.

Considering the fact that his dying words to her were orders, yeah.

Jonah's mother told him she loved him.

You think seeing that... that's what Tali hoped to hear when she looked up that message...? She was hoping so much to just hear it... to never have to doubt it again... to know that everything she did for him was worth it in the end... and then...

Orders. Keep Giving Tali. It doesn't matter that I'm dead. I'll still keep giving. Everything for the fleet. Nothing left for you.

As I said, Noir makes this clear.

[Phil725]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Collider wrote...

I actually prefer not hugging Tali because you get more dialog and information about her that way. Doesn't make me a "soulless bastard."

Pacifien wrote...

I like the strong emotion behind the paragon interrupt, but in the end, my Shepard simply isn't a hugger.

Wow.

Okay... I'm not sure how to respond to that...

You do have to love the whole "I'm not a soulless bastard, I just prefer to rehear dialogue/don't want to touch a girl instead of comforting my closest friend at her greatest time of need." 

[Collider]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

Collider wrote...
Uh?

This would be one of those moments I was talking about.

?

[SpatFieya]

Collider wrote...

I actually prefer not hugging Tali because you get more dialog and information about her that way. Doesn't make me a "soulless bastard."

If I where in that scenario being Shepard, I don't know if I'd hug her right then, don't get me wrong, I would totally freaking want to, but I would let her get it all out, then move in with the hug. 

[nickFury]

Collider wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

Collider wrote...

I'm not sure whether I would call Rael a "douchebag" father. He clearly cared about Tali, his methods were just off the mark...in the case of the experiments, very off the mark. He's sort of a lesser version of Miranda's father, in a way, but much more sympathetic.

Miranda's father was narcessistic at his very core.

That's true.

Rael was selfless in his efforts to give Tali a home, ignoring the damage his absence did to her.

I think there's a significant difference there.

Also true. I still need to think about this one. I can't say he's the best father ever. She seemed awfully strict and posessive. And he never spent time with her. Politics consumed his life.

I actualy really like the contrast between Xens father and Tali's *excerpt from Reckoning chap1*

Daro could perfectly recall the first time she had seen her father's face. One of the other children had called her ugly out of frustration from being locked inside his new fabric prison. Children new to the suit often had a hard time adjusting, and Daro had simply been the easiest target for this particular child's aggravation. She had also only gotten her suit recently, and as a result of being the oddball of her ship, was left feeling very insecure. The young girl had spent the better part of that day quietly sobbing, alone, afraid that the helmet that incased her head was a punishment from her parents for being hideous. The thought that she had offended her parents had left her distraught. Daro's father had returned from his experiments early that day to find his only child huddled into a ball on the bed, sniffling into the sheets.
Daro's eyes closed as she remembered every detail of the memory, letting it engulf her. She often let herself become enraptured in old memories. They gave her focus, helped her find the strength to continue her Pilgrimage. Memories of her parents were often her happiest. Her father had reached for the clasps that undid her visor, gently setting it aside. He had called her beautiful. Reaching for his own mask, he pulled it aside, showing her his face for the first time she could remember.
He had gladly taken the sick days for it.

makes me wonder if Tali never met Shepard (and Saren was somehow still defeated) if she may have ended up worse than Xen.

Modifié par nickFury, 04 juillet 2010 - 03:02 .

[RiptideX1090]

Aesaar wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

Aesaar wrote...

Rael: The most flanderised character in this thread.

"I know he cares about me, but he never really showed it." Tali's words.

Now, pretty much everyone's taken that to mean the only times he ever spent with Tali were spent giving orders. Other than that, he doesn't care.

Ridiculous.

Considering the fact that his dying words to her were orders, yeah.

He never struck me as someone who'll put sentimentality above actually solving a problem.  Sure, he could have done the same thing as the mother on one of videos and died while telling her he loves her, but really, what does that accomplish?  Doesn't solve the problem.  Instead, he does something practical, which could prevent Tali from being exiled (if she'd done as he wanted).

Dude.

A simple "I love you, Tali. I'm proud of you." Is NOT that hard. Not after everything she's done. Not after everything she's ENDURED. For him.

Tali deserved better. She got better.

[Lividity Jones]

Aesaar wrote...

He never struck me as someone who'll put sentimentality above actually solving a problem.  Sure, he could have done the same thing as the mother on one of videos and died while telling her he loves her, but really, what does that accomplish?  Doesn't solve the problem.  Instead, he does something practical, which could prevent Tali from being exiled (if she'd done as he wanted).

So because of practicality, he's excused for being emotionally absent and, as a whole, abusive?

[Collider]

Phil725 wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

Collider wrote...

I actually prefer not hugging Tali because you get more dialog and information about her that way. Doesn't make me a "soulless bastard."

Pacifien wrote...

I like the strong emotion behind the paragon interrupt, but in the end, my Shepard simply isn't a hugger.

Wow.

Okay... I'm not sure how to respond to that...

You do have to love the whole "I'm not a soulless bastard, I just prefer to rehear dialogue/don't want to touch a girl instead of comforting my closest friend at her greatest time of need." 

I don't like things to be assumed of me or anyone simply because of something like this, let alone the fact that it's a video game.

[Skadhi1]

I wonder - could it be that Quarian males tend to be emotionally cold? Is Rael normal in their culture?

[SpatFieya]

Someone With Mass wrote...

He made a video of that moment where he didn't push the button for the Paragon hug.

Ah, I see.

I'll admit, first play through I wasn't quick enough. I tell you, I've never heard video game diologue so damn emotional. Ended up restarting the whole mission just so I could paragon hug.

Modifié par SpatFieya, 04 juillet 2010 - 03:00 .

[Pacifien]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Collider wrote...
Rip, was it Rael sending her on the missions, or was it the Admiralty Board in general? I thought it was the Admiralty Board in general and Rael just said to Tali to pick up whatever geth parts she could find while conducting the missions.

Which means he was totally cool with it.

Would you be dandy about sending your only child into a place filled with genocidal robots?

I wonder if he overcompensated for any possible criticism that he was biased to his only child by then sending her to the more dangerous assignments.

Plus, I assume Tali had some say in the matter. She likely joined whatever quarian force handled such missions. (A quarian STG most likely)

[InHarmsWay]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Aesaar wrote...

Rael: The most flanderised character in this thread.

"I know he cares about me, but he never really showed it." Tali's words.

Now, pretty much everyone's taken that to mean the only times he ever spent with Tali were spent giving orders. Other than that, he doesn't care.

Ridiculous.

Considering the fact that his dying words to her were orders, yeah.

And according to Tali, never said he loved her. Never! Not even with his last words. If you miss the paragon interupt, she'll tell you that he never cared and didn't seemed surprised that he used his last words to give her more orders. Really depressing.

Modifié par InHarmsWay, 04 juillet 2010 - 03:03 .

[RiptideX1090]

SpatFieya wrote...

Collider wrote...

I actually prefer not hugging Tali because you get more dialog and information about her that way. Doesn't make me a "soulless bastard."

If I where in that scenario being Shepard, I don't know if I'd hug her right then, don't get me wrong, I would totally freaking want to, but I would let her get it all out, then move in with the hug. 

One of only three people I consider family is sobbing inconsolably over their dead father, the only family they have left?

**** yeah I'm gonna hug them. I'll hold them for hours if I have to. Tali. Garrus. Whatever. Doesn't matter. My friend is that ****ed up, weeping on their knees, bet your ass I'm gonna be there.

[Collider]

Pacifien wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

Collider wrote...
Rip, was it Rael sending her on the missions, or was it the Admiralty Board in general? I thought it was the Admiralty Board in general and Rael just said to Tali to pick up whatever geth parts she could find while conducting the missions.

Which means he was totally cool with it.

Would you be dandy about sending your only child into a place filled with genocidal robots?

I wonder if he overcompensated for any possible criticism that he was biased to his only child by then sending her to the more dangerous assignments.

Plus, I assume Tali had some say in the matter. She likely joined whatever quarian force handled such missions. (A quarian STG most likely)

She may have. Considering the Quarian emphasis on service to the state, it's also possible that in some circumstances she did not have the choice. A possible indication of this was what Tali said on her loyalty mission - that she would have joined Shepard earlier had she not had missions assigned to her.

Given her apparent dedication to her people, though  (although not their government as we later find out), it's likely that she would accept certain missions anyways.

[Lividity Jones]

Pacifien wrote...

I wonder if he overcompensated for any possible criticism that he was biased to his only child by then sending her to the more dangerous assignments.

Plus, I assume Tali had some say in the matter. She likely joined whatever quarian force handled such missions. (A quarian STG most likely)

If Tali did volunteer, which honestly does sound like something she would do, and Rael really cared, he would have protested or at least asked her if she was sure.

Nope. Nothing. Emotionally absent.

[Phil725]

Collider wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

*snip*
You do have to love the whole "I'm not a soulless bastard, I just prefer to rehear dialogue/don't want to touch a girl instead of comforting my closest friend at her greatest time of need." 

I don't like things to be assumed of me or anyone simply because of something like this, let alone the fact that it's a video game.

Given the fact that judging a person for one action in a video game was an obvious joke, the soulless bastard thing clearly only applies to this specific hypothetical, and your explanation hardly made you appear soul-ly

[Collider]

Phil725 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

*snip*
You do have to love the whole "I'm not a soulless bastard, I just prefer to rehear dialogue/don't want to touch a girl instead of comforting my closest friend at her greatest time of need." 

I don't like things to be assumed of me or anyone simply because of something like this, let alone the fact that it's a video game.

Given the fact that judging a person for one action in a video game was an obvious joke, the soulless bastard thing clearly only applies to this specific hypothetical, and your explanation hardly made you appear soul-ly

Sorry, was just a bit of a knee-jerk.

[Someone With Mass]

*Sigh*

Yes, yes.

We all know Rael put his work ahead of his family and that wasn't the best move, even if it was for the good of the fleet.

Can we talk about something else now?

This just leads to the same dead end as always.

What's done is done.

[Auzden]

hey guys how is the tali thread tonight?

[Phil725]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

SpatFieya wrote...
*snip*
If I where in that scenario being Shepard, I don't know if I'd hug her right then, don't get me wrong, I would totally freaking want to, but I would let her get it all out, then move in with the hug. 

One of only three people I consider family is sobbing inconsolably over their dead father, the only family they have left?

**** yeah I'm gonna hug them. I'll hold them for hours if I have to. Tali. Garrus. Whatever. Doesn't matter. My friend is that ****ed up, weeping on their knees, bet your ass I'm gonna be there.

Totally agreed, I've never understood the whole "let her get things off her chest" explanation for weeping over her dead father, or the earlier conversation.  There's plenty of time for that stuff later, right now, she needs comforted by the one person that cares for her above all else.

[Pacifien]

RiptideX1090 wrote...
**** yeah I'm gonna hug them. I'll hold them for hours if I have to. Tali. Garrus. Whatever. Doesn't matter. My friend is that ****ed up, weeping on their knees, bet your ass I'm gonna be there.

Yeah, see, if this happens to me, all I can do is whisper to the guy next to me "What do you when a girl is crying?"

[Collider]

InHarmsWay wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

Aesaar wrote...

Rael: The most flanderised character in this thread.

"I know he cares about me, but he never really showed it." Tali's words.

Now, pretty much everyone's taken that to mean the only times he ever spent with Tali were spent giving orders. Other than that, he doesn't care.

Ridiculous.

Considering the fact that his dying words to her were orders, yeah.

And according to Tali, never said he loved her. Never! Not even with his last words. If you miss the paragon interupt, she'll tell you that he never cared and didn't seemed surprised that he used his last words to give her more orders. Really depressing.

That is a good point. I think he cared, though. Hmm. It's possible that he may have viewed her daughter as a sort of trophy. I keep reminding myself of Miranda's father. As LJ notes, Rael is clearly not a complete narcissist as Miranda's father, but I stil think there are some parallels.

[Kikaimegami]

I'm not a hugger. I dislike physical contact and am outwardly unemotional most of the time. I'm the very definition of an introvert.



But if I were in that situation, I'd hug her, because it's the right thing to do. She needs it.

[Collider]

Phil725 wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

SpatFieya wrote...
*snip*
If I where in that scenario being Shepard, I don't know if I'd hug her right then, don't get me wrong, I would totally freaking want to, but I would let her get it all out, then move in with the hug. 

One of only three people I consider family is sobbing inconsolably over their dead father, the only family they have left?

**** yeah I'm gonna hug them. I'll hold them for hours if I have to. Tali. Garrus. Whatever. Doesn't matter. My friend is that ****ed up, weeping on their knees, bet your ass I'm gonna be there.

Totally agreed, I've never understood the whole "let her get things off her chest" explanation for weeping over her dead father, or the earlier conversation.  There's plenty of time for that stuff later, right now, she needs comforted by the one person that cares for her above all else.

It's not as if Shepard cannot comfort Tali if he does not hug her. Because he can. Literally.

[Pacifien]

Well, if Lividity Jones wants suggestions for another mini-fic that can jumpstart a completely different conversation, I do resuggest my Tali enters Dr. Michel's clinic for the first time.