258292 réponses à ce sujet

[epoch_]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

The way the Council treated the quarians is completely inexcusable. They didn't create AI on purpose, you jackasses.

Agreed again.
@Epoch - That was disbanded. It's not prostetic.

Prove that the quarians didn't grow her a new arm between ME1 and ME2.

[Phil725]

Collider wrote...

Phil725 wrote...
*snip*

He could, but he doesn't if you don't hug her, he just stands there.

What do you mean? Have you ever not hugged her? Shepard has options to comfort her even without hugging her.

That falls in the whole disconnect between the player and Shep category.  The game gives you two options, comfort hug/stand there and let her cry.

For the record, my canon Shepard hugs her. But I still like, in the metagame sense, not hugging her because I got more (voiced) emotion that way and I learn more things about her. If you don't hug her, IIRC, for example you get to learn that she got the best military and engineering training the Flotilla could offer.

I haven't seen the scene in months, the way I recalled it, Shep just stood there while Tali says her lines, then she says something like "we need to go," and they leave.  If that's not how it happens then nevermind

[nickFury]

Pacifien wrote...

I assume Tali was shot while she was on the Citadel. I imagine as soon as she got the recordings from the damaged geth, the geth were onto her. And if the geth were chasing her, Saren was chasing her. So she ran to the one place she could think of that she might be able to hide and find help (that doesn't lead the geth directly back to the Migrant Fleet).

Saren likely knew she was on the station with evidence that could incriminate him, so he went to various sources to tell them to be on the lookout for the quarian. That's the only way I can figure Fist would have known to sell Tali out to Saren rather than deliver her to the Shadow Broker.

Who knows how long she was trying to evade capture before she was shot. Also, can't quite remember the conversation with Dr. Michel, but I can imagine upon hearing about Tali's plight, it was Dr. Michel's suggestion to get into contact with the Shadow Broker. Makes more sense that way, at least, as I don't know why a quarian on her pilgrimage would really know about the Shadow Broker.

I believe Michel says that Tali was already looking for the Shadow Broker.

[SpatFieya]

Kikaimegami wrote...

The way the Council treated the quarians is completely inexcusable. They didn't create AI on purpose, you jackasses.

Indeed. They've suffered more than enough. 

Lost homeworld and all colonized planets.

Lost countless billions of men, women, and children. 

Have to live on star ships, in suits, and struggle to survive. 

I know a lot see Quarians as a weak species, but in all honesty, they are hardy sons a ****es. To be able to live and survive for that long without any planet to call home? Send their young ones to travel the stars in hopes to bring back something useful? The Galaxy must be full of retards not to respect such feats. 

[BTG_01]

Collider wrote...

I'm not sure if the Council's action were completely indefensible. After all, although inadvertently, the Quarians' actions did result in the Geth developing sapience. I don't actually agree with what the Council did though - that was far too inconsiderate and ignorant of them to do.

If the problem was so serious, why didn't the Council do anything to wipe the geth out in their infancy? It seems like they were only interested in proving culpability, not fixing the problem.

[Collider]

Who knows how long she was trying to evade capture before she was shot. Also, can't quite remember the conversation with Dr. Michel, but I can imagine upon hearing about Tali's plight, it was Dr. Michel's suggestion to get into contact with the Shadow Broker. Makes more sense that way, at least, as I don't know why a quarian on her pilgrimage would really know about the Shadow Broker.

This is exactly what I think happened. Saren sent his thugs (or otherwise arranged thugs) to come after her, she was shot, she either killed her attackers or got away, and then went to the clinic where upon she was given the suggestion of breaking a deal with the Shadow Broker.

I haven't played ME1 in a while though. What exactly was the deal in the alley, why did Tali reject, and how exactly did Fist play into all of this?

[Kikaimegami]

Basically, I very seriously doubt that they could have foreseen the geth gaining sapience. It's a very unique and complicated case.



Hell, even if they'd created the geth AI on purpose, that doesn't give the Council the right to condone genocide.

[RiptideX1090]

Aesaar wrote...


He was shot right after he finished telling her how to disable the geth.  It's quite possible he just didn't have the time.

And please.  Endured?  While I hugely enjoyed Noir, it isn't canon, and it might not be representative of the two years she's gone through.  She might not have even left the Fleet until recently.  Don't use your awesome fanfic as proof, unless it gets endorsed by Bioware.

What we know:

She's been shot at least twice.

She's taken at least one suicide mission on Haestrom. Without Shepard, she WOULD have died.

She has saved the entire galaxy, her people included.

She's brought back valuable geth data for use in Rael's research.

She was about to be exiled, because of him, cast out as a traitor to everything she spent her entire life trying to hold together and fix.

I don't know many kids that would do all of that for their parent's love. Rael owed her that much. He knew he was going to die there. He had time to turn and run. He had time to at least START the sentence.

Nothing.

Pretty it up, whatever. Rael was a horrible parent. If you can't acknowledge your child's love for you after all of that... then ****. Something is wrong with you.

[Phil725]

Skadhi1 wrote...

Collider wrote...

 And what was the experimentation on children for other than just to see how far human biotics can be pushed? That's much less defensible.

That was a rogue operation.

The Counsel, on the other hand, caused genocide when the Rachni were eliminated, near-genocide of the Krogan, and - perhaps - slow genocide of the Quarians.

Cerberus looks remarkably good-hearted in comparison.

The fact that its a legitimate debate whether a terrorist organization or the governing body for the galaxy is worse is pretty much all anyone needs to know.  I look forward to ridding the galaxy of both of these things in the future

[nickFury]

Kikaimegami wrote...

nickFury wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

The way the Council treated the quarians is completely inexcusable. They didn't create AI on purpose, you jackasses.

this, and technicaly the geth arn't even true AIs

They're a gestalt AI.

I know my point was that the Quarians didn't break any citadel conventions when creating the geth, there was really no way they could have seen it comming.

[Collider]

BTG_01 wrote...

Collider wrote...

I'm not sure if the Council's action were completely indefensible. After all, although inadvertently, the Quarians' actions did result in the Geth developing sapience. I don't actually agree with what the Council did though - that was far too inconsiderate and ignorant of them to do.

If the problem was so serious, why didn't the Council do anything to wipe the geth out in their infancy? It seems like they were only interested in proving culpability, not fixing the problem.

That is a good point. I think, in part, but of their condemnation and punishment to the Quarians was simply not helping them. That may not look good, and it isn't good, but I don't think that's on the level of what Cerberus has done. The Council has a greater sphere of influence, but what Cerberus has done with their own abilities is still worse, just not as far reaching.

[Someone With Mass]

Kikaimegami wrote...

The way the Council treated the quarians is completely inexcusable. They didn't create AI on purpose, you jackasses.

I'm just stunned by how the salarians can get away with almost commiting genocide on two races, and still have their seat on the Council but when the quarians made an AI that didn't even leave the Veil or attack until a certain person gave them the right motivation to do so, it was like they'd opened a portal to hell.

Everything the quarians requested was denied. Their embassy was taken away from them. Planets that could've been colonized by them were denied as well.

The Council is just made of a bunch of blind, stubborn morons.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 04 juillet 2010 - 03:22 .

[BTG_01]

epoch_ wrote...

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

The way the Council treated the quarians is completely inexcusable. They didn't create AI on purpose, you jackasses.

Agreed again.
@Epoch - That was disbanded. It's not prostetic.

Prove that the quarians didn't grow her a new arm between ME1 and ME2.

If galactic medical science were that advanced, they'd probably be able to fix Garrus' face. Unless of course, he requested that they leave it alone. After all, chicks dig scars.

[Kikaimegami]

nickFury wrote...

I know my point was that the Quarians didn't break any citadel conventions when creating the geth, there was really no way they could have seen it comming.

Oh, aye, I totally agree with you there.

[Aesaar]

If you want inexcusable, look at Ekuna. The quarians find a planet (previously uncharted), they start colonising. The Council comes in, tells them to leave or they'll start shooting, then gives the planet to the elcor. What the hell.

[Kikaimegami]

BTG_01 wrote...

If galactic medical science were that advanced, they'd probably be able to fix Garrus' face. Unless of course, he requested that they leave it alone. After all, chicks dig scars.

*points to her sig*

[epoch_]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

epoch_ wrote...

Prove that the quarians didn't grow her a new arm between ME1 and ME2.

If they grew her a new arm they will grow children.
Chew on that for a while.

I truly hope that was a joke.

[Pacifien]

Collider wrote...
I haven't played ME1 in a while though. What exactly was the deal in the alley, why did Tali reject, and how exactly did Fist play into all of this?

Dr. Michel directed her to Fist because she knew Fist was an agent of the Shadow Broker. So Fist then tells Tali he can organize a meeting in the alley. Only when she gets there, he's not there and no one introduces himself as the Shadow Broker, so she immediately realizes she's in trouble again.

My memory suspected it was Tali asking Dr. Michel how to reach the Shadow Broker, I just liked my idea better. But if she's been on the Citadel for awhile, I'm sure Tali heard about him and started to think he was her only option. Something made her think C-Sec certainly wasn't an option.

Modifié par Pacifien, 04 juillet 2010 - 03:24 .

[BTG_01]

Collider wrote...

BTG_01 wrote...

If the problem was so serious, why didn't the Council do anything to wipe the geth out in their infancy? It seems like they were only interested in proving culpability, not fixing the problem.

That is a good point. I think, in part, but of their condemnation and punishment to the Quarians was simply not helping them. That may not look good, and it isn't good, but I don't think that's on the level of what Cerberus has done. The Council has a greater sphere of influence, but what Cerberus has done with their own abilities is still worse, just not as far reaching.

That is true. The Council are more like obstructive bureaucrats, they certainly aren't terrorists.

[Pacifien]

Someone With Mass wrote...
I'm just stunned by how the salarians can get away with almost commiting genocide on two races, and still have their seat on the Council but when the quarians made an AI that didn't even leave the Veil or attack until a certain person gave them the right motivation to do so, it was like they'd opened a portal to hell.

Well, you know, perk of being on the Council is that you're on the Council. Salarians had themselves covered.

[Kikaimegami]

Aesaar wrote...

If you want inexcusable, look at Ekuna. The quarians find a planet (previously uncharted), they start colonising. The Council comes in, tells them to leave or they'll start shooting, then gives the planet to the elcor. What the hell.

That is seriously a load of bullsh*t.

You'd think if the Council had their way, they'd just rather the geth wiped them out completely <_<

I don't believe the way the quarians reacted to the geth was justified or excusable, but Jesus Christ guys, don't add insult to injury you heartless bastards.

[Someone With Mass]

Didn't one of the developers at BW say that ME1 Tali's arm wasn't prosthetic?

[Collider]

Skadhi1 wrote...

Collider wrote...

 And what was the experimentation on children for other than just to see how far human biotics can be pushed? That's much less defensible.

That was a rogue operation.

So Cerberus says. It's very possible that the project was from the beginning to experiment on children, but went "more" out of hand as time came on. I would say that experimentation on children is bad enough to begin. If not experimentation on children, there's also the rachni, the husks, the creepers, the thresher maws, etc. If you think that all of those were rogue cells, then not only is Cerberus incompetent, their incompetency yields crimes against nature and violations of rights commonly said to be innate to all humans (ironically enough).

The Counsel, on the other hand, caused genocide when the Rachni were eliminated, near-genocide of the Krogan, and - perhaps - slow genocide of the Quarians.

The Rachni were the initial and primary aggressors. If they had not been repulsed, it's very likely that the Rachni would have overrun the galaxy. It's self defense.

The Krogan genophage was also self-defense. It was not genocide, it was sterility.

The Council contributed to the withering of the Quarian race, but they didn't actively kill any of the Quarians. So it's not nearly the same.

Cerberus looks remarkably good-hearted in comparison.

Human dominance is not a good intention.