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Kikaimegami wrote...
No, but they basically condoned it. They didn't do anything to stop it or offer any aid whatsoever to the quarians afterward. Hell, they withheld aid.Collider wrote...
I don't think that the Council themselves comitted genocide. Just that they...kind of allowed it, in a way.
Modifié par Phil725, 04 juillet 2010 - 03:34 .
I know right? Didn't really use it to intentionally tell you to stfu, just wanted an excuse to use it in general.epoch_ wrote...
SpatFieya wrote...
epoch_ wrote...
tali's my favorite LI EVAR!@
That gif is strangely entertaining.
Collider wrote...
Maybe he wasn't a good father or the best father, but he's not a monster.Pretty it up, whatever. Rael was a horrible parent. If you can't acknowledge your child's love for you after all of that... then ****. Something is wrong with you.
FsDxRAGE wrote...
Hi epoch
]Someone With Mass wrote...
Kikaimegami wrote...
The way the Council treated the quarians is completely inexcusable. They didn't create AI on purpose, you jackasses.
I'm just stunned by how the salarians can get away with almost commiting genocide on two races, and still have their seat on the Council but when the quarians made an AI that didn't even leave the Veil or attack until a certain person gave them the right motivation to do so, it was like they'd opened a portal to hell.
I wouldn't say that. Their thinking, though hasn't yield the best results.The Council is just made of a bunch of blind, stubborn morons.
RiptideX1090 wrote...
Aesaar wrote...
He was shot right after he finished telling her how to disable the geth. It's quite possible he just didn't have the time.
And please. Endured? While I hugely enjoyed Noir, it isn't canon, and it might not be representative of the two years she's gone through. She might not have even left the Fleet until recently. Don't use your awesome fanfic as proof, unless it gets endorsed by Bioware.
What we know:
She's been shot at least twice.
She's taken at least one suicide mission on Haestrom. Without Shepard, she WOULD have died.
She has saved the entire galaxy, her people included.
She's brought back valuable geth data for use in Rael's research.
She was about to be exiled, because of him, cast out as a traitor to everything she spent her entire life trying to hold together and fix.
I don't know many kids that would do all of that for their parent's love. Rael owed her that much. He knew he was going to die there. He had time to turn and run. He had time to at least START the sentence.
Nothing.
Pretty it up, whatever. Rael was a horrible parent. If you can't acknowledge your child's love for you after all of that... then ****. Something is wrong with you.
Modifié par Aesaar, 04 juillet 2010 - 03:36 .
That planet was inhospitable to the Quarians.Aesaar wrote...
If you want inexcusable, look at Ekuna. The quarians find a planet (previously uncharted), they start colonising. The Council comes in, tells them to leave or they'll start shooting, then gives the planet to the elcor. What the hell.
BTG_01 wrote...
Collider wrote...
Maybe he wasn't a good father or the best father, but he's not a monster.Pretty it up, whatever. Rael was a horrible parent. If you can't acknowledge your child's love for you after all of that... then ****. Something is wrong with you.
Especially when you compare him to some of the other squadmate's fathers.
I do not dissagree with that assessment but Haestrom and the Collector base are two different things, they know that going through Omega 4 and hitting th base there is an extream chance that even if they succeed they will likely not make it back. Haestrom was a high risk recon op behind enemy lines but was likely planned out so as to offer a resonable chance for the team to get out with the data, that is untill the **** hit the fan.RiptideX1090 wrote...
nickFury wrote...
I dont think Haestrom was thought to be a suicide mission, high risk but not suicide. After all it was an information gathering/research mission and considering the radiation from the star screwed up communications there would be no way for them to send the data back to the fleet without transporting it out of the system someway which likely means they expected someone to survive. I believe reager even says something to the fact that they thought the interference would hide them from geth patrols and it was just really bad luck that got them caught.RiptideX1090 wrote...
Aesaar wrote...
He was shot right after he finished telling her how to disable the geth. It's quite possible he just didn't have the time.
And please. Endured? While I hugely enjoyed Noir, it isn't canon, and it might not be representative of the two years she's gone through. She might not have even left the Fleet until recently. Don't use your awesome fanfic as proof, unless it gets endorsed by Bioware.
What we know:
She's been shot at least twice.
She's taken at least one suicide mission on Haestrom. Without Shepard, she WOULD have died.
She has saved the entire galaxy, her people included.
She's brought back valuable geth data for use in Rael's research.
She was about to be exiled, because of him, cast out as a traitor to everything she spent her entire life trying to hold together and fix.
I don't know many kids that would do all of that for their parent's love. Rael owed her that much. He knew he was going to die there. He had time to turn and run. He had time to at least START the sentence.
Nothing.
Pretty it up, whatever. Rael was a horrible parent. If you can't acknowledge your child's love for you after all of that... then ****. Something is wrong with you.
One of the planets in the Dholen system has 50,000 geth ships around it. Approaching that planet is next to suicide. Haestrom is in the same system. If the geth had been able to call for reinforcements, there is no way it would have ended well for them.
And whether it was described as a suicide mission or not is immaterial. Without Shepard, Tali and Reeger would be rotting corpses on a planet that would have baked the suits from their decaying flesh. If Cerberus didn't bring Shepard back, she WOULD be dead.
Suicide mission is therefore a fair assessment.
The thing is, she attempted to push Shepard away, but that wasn't from the heart. We all know she's wanted Shepard, she was just saying that because her habits and upbringing told her to. Shepard could see through that, and knew what she truly wanted. And she got it.Collider wrote...
SpatFieya wrote...
*snip*
I think there is a lot of truth in this. Her entire upbringing was centered around service to the fleet. I don't believe she was doing everything that she did for her father, but more so for other people, the Quarians. That is why, in part, in her romance she is hesitant and pushes Shepard away - all her life she has been acting just for different people. Doing something for herself - such as the romance - is rather "alien" to her, so to speak.
Kikaimegami wrote...
I think Rael was a monster, a horrible father, and deserved to have his name ground into dirt.. but Tali begged me to not turn over the evidence...
Modifié par Someone With Mass, 04 juillet 2010 - 03:38 .
Riptide, you are earning epic amounts of Kikai Points today, seriously.RiptideX1090 wrote...
He basically brain raped a bunch of people so he could develop a way to enslave them.
Only one who comes close is Ronald, and he only did it to a few dozen people, Rael wanted to do it to a whole race. Even Morinth didn't do anything on that scale.
We aren't going to agree on this. New topic.
RAAAGE!epoch_ wrote...
FsDxRAGE wrote...
Hi epoch
good evening rage.
Ah, I get it. Makes sense now. It was a little confusing in game - that I simply have not remembered.Pacifien wrote...
Dr. Michel directed her to Fist because she knew Fist was an agent of the Shadow Broker. So Fist then tells Tali he can organize a meeting in the alley. Only when she gets there, he's not there and no one introduces himself as the Shadow Broker, so she immediately realizes she's in trouble again.Collider wrote...
I haven't played ME1 in a while though. What exactly was the deal in the alley, why did Tali reject, and how exactly did Fist play into all of this?
For one thing, C-Sec is suspicious and hostile to Quarians, as we could tell by them discriminating against her and holding her up because she is a Quarian, who many think are just beggars and thieves. That coupled with the relative incredulity of Tali having information about Spectre and a well respected matriarch going rogue, makes C-Sec rather implausible. Surely, it's doubtful that a Spectre (who has high security clearance) couldn't best C-Sec. She would need someone more skilled - like the Shadow Broker.My memory suspected it was Tali asking Dr. Michel how to reach the Shadow Broker, I just liked my idea better. But if she's been on the Citadel for awhile, I'm sure Tali heard about him and started to think he was her only option. Something made her think C-Sec certainly wasn't an option.
Collider wrote...
That planet was inhospitable to the Quarians.Aesaar wrote...
If you want inexcusable, look at Ekuna. The quarians find a planet (previously uncharted), they start colonising. The Council comes in, tells them to leave or they'll start shooting, then gives the planet to the elcor. What the hell.
Aesaar wrote...
For Haestrom: Again, who's to say she didn't volunteer? I would think far less of Rael if he used his position as admiral to keep Tali out of danger to the detriment of the mission and of others. I'm also doubtful the Haestrom mission was only Rael's doing, since Tali says "the admirals" believed the information was important enough.
On the exile: Last I checked, he wanted her to give the evidence to the admirals so she wouldn't get exiled. Not handing it in was Tali's choice. He was willing to sacrifice his name, his legacy and his project (and possibly any hope of success against the geth) to prevent her exile. That says far more about him than failing to say "I love you".
Why, why did she have to beg me to not give them that evidence? Why? Damn it! I bet Daro was involved too and I could have totally gotten her into trouble.Someone With Mass wrote...
Maybe we should've nuked and forget like the Board suggested...
Modifié par Kikaimegami, 04 juillet 2010 - 03:39 .
Interestingly, the Salarians created the genophage, but they did not use the genophage. It was the non-Council Turians who did. Kind of a backdoor deal, I suspect. You unleash a biological weapon. We'll give you a seat on the Council.Collider wrote...
Well for one thing, the genophage was sanctioned by the Citadel. For another, the Salarians (presumably) had a seat on the Council, so something of the magnitude of removing them from the Council could be very costly politically. The Quarians did not have as much political power (probably partly because of their relative handicap for expansion - due to their immune systems), so it was easier for the Council to abandon them.
Collider wrote...
That planet was inhospitable to the Quarians.Aesaar wrote...
If you want inexcusable, look at Ekuna. The quarians find a planet (previously uncharted), they start colonising. The Council comes in, tells them to leave or they'll start shooting, then gives the planet to the elcor. What the hell.
That is bad, yes.Kikaimegami wrote...
No, but they basically condoned it. They didn't do anything to stop it or offer any aid whatsoever to the quarians afterward. Hell, they withheld aid.Collider wrote...
I don't think that the Council themselves comitted genocide. Just that they...kind of allowed it, in a way.
Shadowomega23 wrote...
Well from what I read of the of Revelation Saren didn't name Nazarn, Sovereign it was named that by someone else, most likely Qian who found the ship. When the ship was first found it was "beyond the Perseus Veil, near the edge of geth space: (ME: Revelation page 322). It even stats Saren was coventing power over "every race that paid homage to the Citadel" (ME: Revelation page 322) even before coming in contact with Sovereign.
Now my theroy is that the Rachi where ment as a test to those that made the Citadel home, but not to see whom will be the chosen race but to push along tech development so that their where the reapers want them. The Asari and Salarens most likely didn't have to many colonies at the time, and where no where near what the Protheans had developed. War pushes tech ever further, and also causes policy changes. After the incident the concil made it policy not to open unexplored Mass Relays unless they knew where they where going. Thus this caused the first conflict war with the humans later, granted Soverign couldn't have forsaw this. Also I believe Sovereign also took part in the awakening of the geth, I know tali mentions improvements where made but nothing of true AI research. Now it is likely Sovereign was likely still looking for allies to help reopen the citadel at this time and decide to push the geth further along then the Quarians wanted, but didn't reveal himself till later due to the fact he may have been found out and could have been destroyed. So later expecting the geth to automaticly follow him he goes there and only gets a small portion to break off and follow. These would be the Heretic geth that attack Eden Prime. With this race being at the forefront of the attack his present would be easily dissmissed at one of their construsts. Thus giving blame to the whole race of geth. I also believe that the reason no ship has returned from the veil with a living crew is like cause by the geth had already split. So it is likely Sovereign did make contact with the geth not long after the last Quarian Vessels left the veil.
Now the Leviethen of Dis could be either another dead reaper hulk or the hulk of one of the races that came before but fell fighting the reapers above the planet. This vessel could have been cut apart and moved for further study, or its Mass Effect core was brought back online and lifted from the planets surface. It could very be likely that this ship if built with bio-metal tech like the reapers it could be that the race that built it tried the very thing that TIM planned on doing if you kept the collector base intact, maybe even use cloning tech so as not to avoid drawing attention to the loss of human colonies like the collectors did when they tried to make their own human reaper. Also from the massive field of Debre field on the other side of the omega-4 relay it is likely that the race that made the reapers had made all their reapers at that same station. It is also likely that the race had split into factions and one faction sought out away of immortality and turned themselves into the reapers. The other faction of that race didnt like where this was going and may have even been at war with them already and sent their fleet to destroy the shipyard. However they failed in this endevor and is likely why there is so many space hulks floating in that area, most of them did look like they saw heavy battle.
The fact that he's her father doesn't really play out in my opinion of him. Tali "gets better" even if you don't romance her. I wish Jack was more like that. You can help her with Aresh, but she still goes on and starts a fight with Miranda over nothing. It's disappointing. I do like Jack as a character though, just thought that there should have been more to offer for Shepards who did not romance her or were of the "wrong" gender.SpatFieya wrote...
Collider wrote...
Maybe he wasn't a good father or the best father, but he's not a monster.Pretty it up, whatever. Rael was a horrible parent. If you can't acknowledge your child's love for you after all of that... then ****. Something is wrong with you.
While we all don't particularly agree on his parenting, I think we all can agree that without these circumstances happening, that the Tali we know would not exist. Selfish thought, but it's true. Yes, he wasn't the best, and he could of done better by far. In the end, though, she did get better (if you romance her). So everything worked out for the best, on both sides.
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