258292 réponses à ce sujet

[Collider]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Pretty it up, whatever. Rael was a horrible parent. If you can't acknowledge your child's love for you after all of that... then ****. Something is wrong with you.

Maybe he wasn't a good father or the best father, but he's not a monster.

Whether he is a monster or not depends on the person who looks at him. Perspective.

Stalin wasn't a monster to some either, I'm sure.

I wanted to say that Stalin wasn't really comparable to Rael, but then I remembered the experiments. Point taken.

[RiptideX1090]

Runescapeguy9 wrote...

I'll be back in one moment, sweet thread.

You know... this pic has so many things wrong with it...

Yet... EVERYTHING IS SO RIGHT ABOUT IT.

[Kikaimegami]

I'm going to have to disagree with that, Shadowomega. They gained sentience through the need to create a massive network because they were pushed to capacity.

[Phil725]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Maybe we should've nuked and forget like the Board suggested...

Why, why did she have to beg me to not give them that evidence? Why? Damn it! I bet Daro was involved too and I could have totally gotten her into trouble.

DAMN IT!

I hardly see how letting a group of people desperate to return to their planet that their goal is closer than they think, only thing they need to do is more or less sell their souls is a good idea.  I doubt there would be repurcussions for those involved, I see a splintering of the flotilla, with those with morals and those who want the homeworld back at any cost going their seperate ways being more likely.

[Kira Shepard]

Aesaar wrote...

Collider wrote...

Aesaar wrote...

If you want inexcusable, look at Ekuna. The quarians find a planet (previously uncharted), they start colonising. The Council comes in, tells them to leave or they'll start shooting, then gives the planet to the elcor. What the hell.

That planet was inhospitable to the Quarians.

It was perfectly habitable.  Sure, the gravity was high (its only real flaw), but I think the quarians probably have enough eezo to lighten it, all things considered.

The Council performed the colonisation equivalent of a mugging.

I never read the planet things before. Now I have another reason to nuke the council in ME3.
Damnit I'm pissed.

[Pacifien]

Collider wrote...
For one thing, C-Sec is suspicious and hostile to Quarians, as we could tell by them discriminating against her and holding her up because she is a Quarian, who many think are just beggars and thieves. That coupled with the relative incredulity of Tali having information about Spectre and a well respected matriarch going rogue, makes C-Sec rather implausible. Surely, it's doubtful that a Spectre (who has high security clearance) couldn't best C-Sec. She would need someone more skilled - like the Shadow Broker.

After I mentioned C-Sec, I started thinking that Tali perhaps did contact C-Sec and either immediately gave up on the idea when she was met with incredulity or she had the misfortune of meeting up with a couple corrupt C-Sec officers who had been told that Saren was already on the lookout for a quarian. Then I started thinking it could have been corrupt S-Sec officers who even shot her.

Somehow Garrus learned that a quarian had the evidence he needed. Having him hear that a quarian had visited C-Sec, talking about evidence of vital importance to the Council, might have tipped him off that Tali had exactly what he needed.

ETA: Okay, that or Dr. Michel called him about it. They seemed to have known each other for a bit.

Modifié par Pacifien, 04 juillet 2010 - 03:45 .

[Someone With Mass]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Maybe we should've nuked and forget like the Board suggested...

Why, why did she have to beg me to not give them that evidence? Why? Damn it! I bet Daro was involved too and I could have totally gotten her into trouble.

DAMN IT!

Shh, You're making Legion nervous...

And why couldn't they just scan the Alarei for life signs? If they're not detecting anything, then they can blow it to hell. 

Should've been an option, if you ask me. Would've saved all of us a bunch of trouble. Especially Tali.

[Kikaimegami]

Phil725 wrote...

I hardly see how letting a group of people desperate to return to their planet that their goal is closer than they think, only thing they need to do is more or less sell their souls is a good idea.  I doubt there would be repurcussions for those involved, I see a splintering of the flotilla, with those with morals and those who want the homeworld back at any cost going their seperate ways being more likely.

Retaking Rannoch by force, no matter how they go about it, is going to destroy the entire race, whether that be by hopelessly dividing them into such small sects that they can't function anymore, or getting them all annihilated by the geth.

[Collider]

Kikaimegami wrote...
I think Rael was a monster, a horrible father, and deserved to have his name ground into dirt.. but Tali begged me to not turn over the evidence...

My personal opinion is that it is not right for Shepard to reveal the evidence to the public, Tali or no. It isn't really Shepard's place to interfere in Quarian politics. I have little qualms with telling the Admirals in private though. The Quarian government should decide what to do with the evidence, rather than Shepard blurting out sensitive information that could start social and political instability that the Quarians simply do not need - as they are already considering war (when they should be ready for the Reapers instead) and may face eventual extinction and starvation (in Ascension, it is said that the Quarians will begin running out of supplies in 90 years). I will also add that revealing the evidence is a gamble.

Not revealing the evidence means nothing changes. Considering that the Admiralty Board being split on war is better than the Admiralty Board possibly deciding on war because they have a superweapon (Rael's research), I think that not revealing the evidence is safer.

I would also add that Rael has suffered enough. He and his team died.

[Collider]

SpatFieya wrote...
The thing is, she attempted to push Shepard away, but that wasn't from the heart. We all know she's wanted Shepard, she was just saying that because her habits and upbringing told her to. Shepard could see through that, and knew what she truly wanted. And she got it. 

Which makes the romance all that more meaningful. 

Indeed.

[Kikaimegami]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Shh, You're making Legion nervous...

And why couldn't they just scan the Alarei for life signs? If they're not detecting anything, then they can blow it to hell. 

Should've been an option, if you ask me. Would've saved all of us a bunch of trouble. Especially Tali.

[Aesaar]

RiptideX1090 wrote...


I'm sure she volunteered. That he let her go as an admiral makes sense. That he let her go as a father without even saying he loved her is appalling.

He wanted her to show Gerrel and Xen so they could finish his work. I respect that he wants to give his kid a home. The fact that he is completely incapable of showing that in any other way than brain raping an entire race however... makes me sick.

Rael doesn't have the benefit of Legion.  As far as he knew, the only geth that existed were the ones who had killed every single organic they'd ever come in contact with (save Saren & co.).  I personally don't think his purpose was to enslave them, only to disable them.  He was working to exploit a weakness of synthetics.  Essentially, the synthetic-killing equivalent of a nerve toxin.  On my first playthrough (prior to encountering Legion), I had no problem with it.  Now, I'm against it for the same reason I'm against a war: it isn't necessary.  The real geth aren't hostile.  

If they were all like the heretics, I'd have the Normandy at the head of the Fleet when the war started, and I'd use Rael's "virus" as often as possible.

Modifié par Aesaar, 04 juillet 2010 - 03:49 .

[Collider]

Shadowomega23 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Aesaar wrote...

If you want inexcusable, look at Ekuna. The quarians find a planet (previously uncharted), they start colonising. The Council comes in, tells them to leave or they'll start shooting, then gives the planet to the elcor. What the hell.

That planet was inhospitable to the Quarians.

I don't know, I remember hearing that it was a world that would have been suitable for the quarians, as someone said it was a rare find. As for the Quarians making the geth into what they become I will repost a theroy I have; it sates the Quarians made the frames and started the geth on the path but it was Soveriegn might have push the geth to Setients. Give me a moment to find it.

If I recall correctly, the gravity on this particular world would have made life very difficult if not deadly to the Quarians.

[Kikaimegami]

Collider wrote...

Not revealing the evidence means nothing changes. Considering that the Admiralty Board being split on war is better than the Admiralty Board possibly deciding on war because they have a superweapon (Rael's research), I think that not revealing the evidence is safer.

I would also add that Rael has suffered enough. He and his team died.

Not a very good superweapon if the geth overpowered them in such a small number

[Someone With Mass]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Retaking Rannoch by force, no matter how they go about it, is going to destroy the entire race, whether that be by hopelessly dividing them into such small sects that they can't function anymore, or getting them all annihilated by the geth.

Well, that's not going to happen.
 
I won't allow it to happen.

Peace. No other options.

[Shadowomega23]

Kikaimegami wrote...

I'm going to have to disagree with that, Shadowomega. They gained sentience through the need to create a massive network because they were pushed to capacity.

A massive network or a Massive brain doesn't make one sentent, they still are about as intelligent as varren as tali put it, but for one to actually ask their overseer a question like Why am I alive, or Do I have a soul. That sounds like there was a little more programming there then was Engineered into them. I remember from previous Si-Fi stories that massive neural networks lead to at least animal level thinking, but it isn't till an outside force acts upon that intelligence that is comes to full sentience. The game Alpha Centerui comes to mind.

[Phil725]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

I hardly see how letting a group of people desperate to return to their planet that their goal is closer than they think, only thing they need to do is more or less sell their souls is a good idea.  I doubt there would be repurcussions for those involved, I see a splintering of the flotilla, with those with morals and those who want the homeworld back at any cost going their seperate ways being more likely.

Retaking Rannoch by force, no matter how they go about it, is going to destroy the entire race, whether that be by hopelessly dividing them into such small sects that they can't function anymore, or getting them all annihilated by the geth.

Rael's plan didn't call for force, he was going the hacking route, and we're led to believe that he was close to succeeding.  If the entire population here's that, a lot of them are going to want to go through with that plan (our admiral sample says at least 2/5 people are just fine with brainwashing the entire geth race.)  By withholding the info, the quarians stay in status quo mode for long enough for Shep to rectify the situation peacefully.

[RiptideX1090]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Collider wrote...

Not revealing the evidence means nothing changes. Considering that the Admiralty Board being split on war is better than the Admiralty Board possibly deciding on war because they have a superweapon (Rael's research), I think that not revealing the evidence is safer.

I would also add that Rael has suffered enough. He and his team died.

Not a very good superweapon if the geth overpowered them in such a small number

You make a very good point.

[Collider]

[quote]Pacifien wrote...

[quote]Collider wrote...
Well for one thing, the genophage was sanctioned by the Citadel. For another, the Salarians (presumably) had a seat on the Council, so something of the magnitude of removing them from the Council could be very costly politically. The Quarians did not have as much political power (probably partly because of their relative handicap for expansion - due to their immune systems), so it was easier for the Council to abandon them. [/quote]
Interestingly, the Salarians created the genophage, but they did not use the genophage. It was the non-Council Turians who did. Kind of a backdoor deal, I suspect. You unleash a biological weapon. We'll give you a seat on the Council.

[quote]Not sure what role the Quarians ever had in Citadel space.[/quote]
Possibly nothing relatively speaking. It seems that the Quarians did not often leave their little sphere of the galaxy because of their immune systems. However, its' possibly that due to the Counci's condemnation and the social stigmatization that followed of the Quarians, that the Quarians were driven or otherwise forced out of Citadel space due to politics and being branded as sub-human (as a manner of speaking) by the other species.

[quote]Didn't take much for the Batarians to wash their hands of the Council, and the Council didn't seem too bothered seeing them go. I imagine there are dozens more spacefaring civilizations throughout Citadel and Terminus space that we never see because the developers didn't feel like designing dozens of aliens. Quarians might have been small time, not a loss to the Council.
[/quote]
Probably. I hope they don't reveal another Asari-like race.

[nickFury]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

Collider wrote...

Not revealing the evidence means nothing changes. Considering that the Admiralty Board being split on war is better than the Admiralty Board possibly deciding on war because they have a superweapon (Rael's research), I think that not revealing the evidence is safer.

I would also add that Rael has suffered enough. He and his team died.

Not a very good superweapon if the geth overpowered them in such a small number

You make a very good point.

keep in mind it wasn't functional they were hoping to have a working prototype within a year or two

[Collider]

Aesaar wrote...

Collider wrote...

Aesaar wrote...

If you want inexcusable, look at Ekuna. The quarians find a planet (previously uncharted), they start colonising. The Council comes in, tells them to leave or they'll start shooting, then gives the planet to the elcor. What the hell.

That planet was inhospitable to the Quarians.

It was perfectly habitable.  Sure, the gravity was high (its only real flaw), but I think the quarians probably have enough eezo to lighten it, all things considered.

Would they? The Quarians don't exactly have bountiful coffers of resources.

The Council performed the colonisation equivalent of a mugging.

Seem so.

[Phil725]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

Collider wrote...

Not revealing the evidence means nothing changes. Considering that the Admiralty Board being split on war is better than the Admiralty Board possibly deciding on war because they have a superweapon (Rael's research), I think that not revealing the evidence is safer.

I would also add that Rael has suffered enough. He and his team died.

Not a very good superweapon if the geth overpowered them in such a small number

You make a very good point.

That's hardly relevant.  A virus on this scale at 99% is completely useless, at 100%, you just wiped out billions of sentient lifeforms.  What was the science team supposed to do with an incomplete superweapon?  Throw OSDs at the geth?  The failure on the Alerei was because of the unexpected organization of the geth.  Come to think of it, it kind of parallels the Morning Wars.  The quarians on the verge of shutting down the geth, and the geth unexpectedly rise up and beat them.

[SpatFieya]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Kikaimegami wrote...

Collider wrote...

Not revealing the evidence means nothing changes. Considering that the Admiralty Board being split on war is better than the Admiralty Board possibly deciding on war because they have a superweapon (Rael's research), I think that not revealing the evidence is safer.

I would also add that Rael has suffered enough. He and his team died.

Not a very good superweapon if the geth overpowered them in such a small number

You make a very good point.

Speaking of the super weapon, Xen's message kind of worried me. Sounded like she wasn't only going to destroy the Geth with it, but bring the council races to their knees. 

Makes me wonder what's going to happen to her in ME3. Probably goes out into the void like a dumb ass, get's in trouble, you save her, and can possibly woo her afterwards. She might be one for the renegades though. 

[Someone With Mass]

Kikaimegami wrote...

Uh-huh.

Right...

Remind me to never put you in charge of the main batteries.

[Aesaar]

Kikaimegami wrote...
Not a very good superweapon if the geth overpowered them in such a small number

Who said it was complete?

Modifié par Aesaar, 04 juillet 2010 - 04:02 .