258292 réponses à ce sujet

[JeanLuc761]

Lividity Jones wrote...

By all means, have at it.

Still, all her sensitive skin and his... pointiness... I don't envy her.

Yeah, does sound mildly akward.  Still, if Femshep could consider it, I suppose Lia'Vael could too

Anyways, I won't be doing anything more extreme than Garrus's arm around her shoulder or something.

[Lividity Jones]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

By all means, have at it.

Still, all her sensitive skin and his... pointiness... I don't envy her.

Yeah, does sound mildly akward.  Still, if Femshep could consider it, I suppose Lia'Vael could too

Anyways, I won't be doing anything more extreme than Garrus's arm around her shoulder or something.

Sounds good. Looking forward to it.

[Mazder]

Rakia_Time wrote...

 Hello people, i have a small surprize

When it's finished it will have a lot more Tali but for now that's it, criticism is appreciated so i can improve 

Wow, nicely done...i think you should keep this and have a full length version, absolutely beautiful!

[KnotEngaged]

nitefyre410 wrote...
I don't know talk about themes and story ideas that  run through heed... Hell I spark it off. 

Honestly i like the exile option for Tali's Story better its the one i picked for my Main play through of ME.  Reason being that the speech the  Shepherd gives in her favor really holds no weight to it , her being exile to try to protect the fleet from  itself has a more heroic overtone to it and I would love to see   how the plays out in ME 3.  

Thoughts Opinions, Jokes all are welcome... now thread discuss 

Agreed.  The speech is great and all, but no evidence is presented for Tali's defense, therefore, even though the speech is hearfelt and stirring and blah, blah, blah there is not enough evidence to aquit.  Its more believable if Tali gets exiled, despite the speech, it shows that Shepard is will honor her wishes but still fight a losing battle on her behalf.

[TTTX]

Rakia_Time wrote...

 Hello people, i have a small surprize

When it's finished it will have a lot more Tali but for now that's it, criticism is appreciated so i can improve 

I like it and I can't say anything negativ about it.

Looking forward to the full version.

[Lividity Jones]

KnotEngaged wrote...

Agreed.  The speech is great and all, but no evidence is presented for Tali's defense, therefore, even though the speech is hearfelt and stirring and blah, blah, blah there is not enough evidence to aquit.  Its more believable if Tali gets exiled, despite the speech, it shows that Shepard is will honor her wishes but still fight a losing battle on her behalf.

**** that.

[TTTX]

Lividity Jones wrote...

KnotEngaged wrote...

Agreed.  The speech is great and all, but no evidence is presented for Tali's defense, therefore, even though the speech is hearfelt and stirring and blah, blah, blah there is not enough evidence to aquit.  Its more believable if Tali gets exiled, despite the speech, it shows that Shepard is will honor her wishes but still fight a losing battle on her behalf.

**** that.

You said it Jones, I agree.

[Zehtuka]

Rakia_Time wrote...

 Hello people, i have a small surprize

When it's finished it will have a lot more Tali but for now that's it, criticism is appreciated so i can improve 

Looks good so far!

[NCLanceman]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...
I don't know talk about themes and story ideas that  run through heed... Hell I spark it off. 

Honestly i like the exile option for Tali's Story better its the one i picked for my Main play through of ME.  Reason being that the speech the  Shepherd gives in her favor really holds no weight to it , her being exile to try to protect the fleet from  itself has a more heroic overtone to it and I would love to see   how the plays out in ME 3.  

Thoughts Opinions, Jokes all are welcome... now thread discuss 

Thematically, and for Tali as a (fictional) person, I don't like the exile option.  She has sacrificed enough for her people, she shouldn't have to sacrifice her connection to them as well.  Additionally, it puts her in more of a "trapped" position with Shepard:  she has nowhere else to go.  Her romance is more powerful when she can make a choice about being with him because she has the Flotilla to go back to.

I'm also going to disagree with the exile option thematically on the grounds that it's just such a Default Shepard thing to do. Shepard is characterized by the work he does because he puts his heart into it. Giving up on his crewmember's home just because would just be a failure of effort on his part, especially if Kal and Veetor are willing to help. The Chewbacca Defense sounds like just the thing almost any Shepard -except the most rigid and faithless law enforcers- would and should do. It's the heroic option after all: the only two moves on the board is to hand over the evidence or not. Shepard making a third would just be the way to prove he's exactly the hero everyone thinks he is.

[KnotEngaged]

TTTX wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

KnotEngaged wrote...

Agreed.  The speech is great and all, but no evidence is presented for Tali's defense, therefore, even though the speech is hearfelt and stirring and blah, blah, blah there is not enough evidence to aquit.  Its more believable if Tali gets exiled, despite the speech, it shows that Shepard is will honor her wishes but still fight a losing battle on her behalf.

**** that.

You said it Jones, I agree.

What can I say?  The truth hurts.  Being objective, if I am an Admiral Shepard's speech comes across as a desperate plea and attempt to cover the fact that he has no evidence to prove Tali's innocence and doesn't sway my opinion of her guilt.  It is tragic, but such is the life of a quarian.

[Lividity Jones]

KnotEngaged wrote...

What can I say?  The truth hurts.  Being objective, if I am an Admiral Shepard's speech comes across as a desperate plea and attempt to cover the fact that he has no evidence to prove Tali's innocence and doesn't sway my opinion of her guilt.  It is tragic, but such is the life of a quarian.

So, you're saying it's perfectly hunkey-dorey to have Tali exiled from the people she has given everything to serve and protect for...

What?

Just because?

Modifié par Lividity Jones, 04 juillet 2010 - 05:31 .

[Phil725]

TTTX wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

KnotEngaged wrote...

Agreed.  The speech is great and all, but no evidence is presented for Tali's defense, therefore, even though the speech is hearfelt and stirring and blah, blah, blah there is not enough evidence to aquit.  Its more believable if Tali gets exiled, despite the speech, it shows that Shepard is will honor her wishes but still fight a losing battle on her behalf.

**** that.

You said it Jones, I agree.

Calling the admirals out in front of the whole flotilla is a huge shock to everyone involved, exiling her after that would look horrible.  Shep basically proves that Tali is a great asset, and that she is an innocent victim caught in the crossfire of a political ****storm.  By the end of the speech, the crowd knows that Tali doesn't deserve exiled, and exiling her would just make the admirals look bad.  The whole purpose of exiling her (bringing attention to Korris' agenda,) has been lost.  What's the reason for exiling her after that?

I can't defend the bare bones charm/intimidate as much as the full investigate speech, but the result isn't out of the question.

[NCLanceman]

KnotEngaged wrote...

What can I say?  The truth hurts.  Being objective, if I am an Admiral Shepard's speech comes across as a desperate plea and attempt to cover the fact that he has no evidence to prove Tali's innocence and doesn't sway my opinion of her guilt.  It is tragic, but such is the life of a quarian.

Of course it is.

Admiral Xen, Koris, and Gerrel aren't really convinced it proves anything either and they say as much. However, they don't have a case either and being called out on their kangaroo court in front of a crowd like that then finding her guilty is too politically damaging to recover from. That's why Tali gets found innocent after these things.

[Savakka1]

Double post

Modifié par Savakka1, 04 juillet 2010 - 05:34 .

[Savakka1]

KnotEngaged wrote...

What can I say?  The truth hurts.  Being objective, if I am an Admiral Shepard's speech comes across as a desperate plea and attempt to cover the fact that he has no evidence to prove Tali's innocence and doesn't sway my opinion of her guilt.  It is tragic, but such is the life of a quarian.

I'm not sure about it, but it doesn't seem that Admiralty has any solid evidence pointing directly at Tali. They only know that Geth have overtaken the Alarei. Tali was a natural/best scapegoat for this, as her father was left onboard.

[nitefyre410]

Lividity Jones wrote...

KnotEngaged wrote...

Agreed.  The speech is great and all, but no evidence is presented for Tali's defense, therefore, even though the speech is hearfelt and stirring and blah, blah, blah there is not enough evidence to aquit.  Its more believable if Tali gets exiled, despite the speech, it shows that Shepard is will honor her wishes but still fight a losing battle on her behalf.

**** that.

  



Alright i drop a topic of discussion and stir up the hornets nest again  look good to see this thread was dying.   Sorry Jones I  am going to have to side with my friend  Knot on this one... that Speech is good and Shep fought the good fight for her but in the  end it just comes off a wishful thinking plus guess who looks like a hero and gets the throw Xen to wolves when that crazy ****'s plans back fires... thats right Tali... do you really think that  Tali would not get word from  Reager, Ra'an or  Veetor when the shooting starts  Oh one of the will send word and Shep and Tali will come a running with Legion to prevent the Second Morning Star War. The Exile returns a hero and Xen faces the firing squad or Airlock... 

[Phil725]

KnotEngaged wrote...
*snip*
What can I say?  The truth hurts.  Being objective, if I am an Admiral Shepard's speech comes across as a desperate plea and attempt to cover the fact that he has no evidence to prove Tali's innocence and doesn't sway my opinion of her guilt.  It is tragic, but such is the life of a quarian.

If you want her exiled because the more tragedy the better then that's fine, but exonerating her is hardly unbelievable.  Just to be clear (since your one line seems to imply that she's guilty,) she is completely innocent.  She's charged with sending dangerous parts to the flotilla, something she didn't do.  She mentions as much on the Alerei, all danger was created by Rael's team assembling the safe pieces.

[Lividity Jones]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Alright i drop a topic of discussion and stir up the hornets nest again  look good to see this thread was dying.   Sorry Jones I  am going to have to side with my friend  Knot on this one... that Speech is good and Shep fought the good fight for her but in the  end it just comes off a wishful thinking plus guess who looks like a hero and gets the throw Xen to wolves when that crazy ****'s plans back fires... thats right Tali... do you really think that  Tali would not get word from  Reager, Ra'an or  Veetor when the shooting starts  Oh one of the will send word and Shep and Tali will come a running with Legion to prevent the Second Morning Star War. The Exile returns a hero and Xen faces the firing squad or Airlock... 

No.

There is a reason it's called a loyalty mission.

Shepard is loyal to Tali. There is absolutely nothing that will stop him from defending her. You cannot convince me otherwise.

You simply cannot.

Modifié par Lividity Jones, 04 juillet 2010 - 05:36 .

[Lividity Jones]

yorkj86 wrote...

At the trial, Shepard's statements amount to argumentum ad misericordiam and general appeal to emotion. There really was no evidence provided on his part. There was evidence to acquit her, but it would besmirch her father's reputation, which is the point, obviously.

And there was also no evidence to exile her.

Talk to the Admirals and then use your speech.

See how it changes.

Shepard calls their bull**** and they realize they have no case and Tali is acquitted.

[KnotEngaged]

Phil725 wrote...

TTTX wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

KnotEngaged wrote...

Agreed.  The speech is great and all, but no evidence is presented for Tali's defense, therefore, even though the speech is hearfelt and stirring and blah, blah, blah there is not enough evidence to aquit.  Its more believable if Tali gets exiled, despite the speech, it shows that Shepard is will honor her wishes but still fight a losing battle on her behalf.

**** that.

You said it Jones, I agree.

Calling the admirals out in front of the whole flotilla is a huge shock to everyone involved, exiling her after that would look horrible.  Shep basically proves that Tali is a great asset, and that she is an innocent victim caught in the crossfire of a political ****storm.  By the end of the speech, the crowd knows that Tali doesn't deserve exiled, and exiling her would just make the admirals look bad.  The whole purpose of exiling her (bringing attention to Korris' agenda,) has been lost.  What's the reason for exiling her after that?

I can't defend the bare bones charm/intimidate as much as the full investigate speech, but the result isn't out of the question.

If Tali is exiled the crowd agrees with the decision of the Admirals (you can hear the people in the hallways of the ship saying this).  Tali doesn't deserve exile, we know this, but I'm playing Devil's Advocate here and trying to be objective.  As a judge my job is to judge the person on trial based on the evidence collected and presented, and a heartfelt speech, while nice, is not evidence.  I think it would have been more realistic and better served the story if that fact was kept in mind by the writers.  Tali's trial is all about politics, but the most important trials in history have always had political overtones to them, and many of them have not gotten the verdict right (Dred Scott, Plessy v Freguson).
I'm not ok with Tali being exiled, I just think that thematically without presenting the actual evidence it should be a much harder thing to avoid in the game.

[NCLanceman]

Lividity Jones wrote...

No.

There is a reason it's called a loyalty mission.

Shepard is loyal to Tali. There is absolutely nothing that will stop him from defending her. You cannot convince me otherwise.

You simply cannot.

To be fair Jones, not handing over the evidence also proves loyalty. One way or another, Shepard gives Tali what she wants and she's eternally grateful. Disloyalty only comes as the result of a particularly vicious Shepard handing over the evidence.

The fact that not handing over the evidence is a terrible solution doesn't factor in.

[Phil725]

nitefyre410 wrote...
*snip*

Alright i drop a topic of discussion and stir up the hornets nest again  look good to see this thread was dying.   Sorry Jones I  am going to have to side with my friend  Knot on this one... that Speech is good and Shep fought the good fight for her but in the  end it just comes off a wishful thinking plus guess who looks like a hero and gets the throw Xen to wolves when that crazy ****'s plans back fires... thats right Tali... do you really think that  Tali would not get word from  Reager, Ra'an or  Veetor when the shooting starts  Oh one of the will send word and Shep and Tali will come a running with Legion to prevent the Second Morning Star War. The Exile returns a hero and Xen faces the firing squad or Airlock... 

How exactly is "you have no evidence, Tali has done more for you than anyone else, she is just an innocent scapegoat caught in your political agendas," wishful thinking?  You think anyone in the courtroom doesn't believe Shep?  The admirals are really just going to exile her out of spite, accomplish nothing and create a public backlash against them?

They have absolutely nothing to gain from exile after the charm/intimidate speeches, they lose their scapegoat, that's what people are missing here.  They knew all along that she was innocent, they were just using her.

[Lividity Jones]

NCLanceman wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

No.

There is a reason it's called a loyalty mission.

Shepard is loyal to Tali. There is absolutely nothing that will stop him from defending her. You cannot convince me otherwise.

You simply cannot.

To be fair Jones, not handing over the evidence also proves loyalty. One way or another, Shepard gives Tali what she wants and she's eternally grateful. Disloyalty only comes as the result of a particularly vicious Shepard handing over the evidence.

The fact that not handing over the evidence is a terrible solution doesn't factor in.

Anything short of an exonerated Tali through speech is unnacceptable.