258292 réponses à ce sujet

[nitefyre410]

I hate top break dreams but the odds of the a human Quarian Alliance are just worst thatn a Krogan having a baby... Look at human history we can barely take care of our own people based off skin tone, religion etc. What makes you think that Human is going to take in 17 million "Job Stealing Vagrants" Sorry it just no going to happen... Shep and Tali have a beautiful thing going but Humanity as whole is not going to accept it... that just well reality.



No the Quarians three choices, pray for peace with the Geth, Take back the Homeworld or the hope the council get off their ass and give a new settlement.. Honesty the Quarians biggest problem is not their immune system that can be fix, gene therapy and all that good stuff its their damn politics.

[Someone With Mass]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Point taken.

Still, allowing genocide to occur because the quarians accidentaly broke the "no AI" rule is a strawman arguement at best.

There has to be another reason.

Or they really are just malicious.

Not to mention how they just let the geth grow behind the Perseus Veil. For all we know, the geth can have a fleet larger than the Citadel and Alliance fleets combined by now.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 05 juillet 2010 - 10:05 .

[Hicrodonma]

I'm with they're malicious on this one. However there could always have been more to it. Now that I think about it there had to be something more. One incident however bad doesn't quite explain all of it I'm sure there is a conspiracy in there somewhere.

[Skadhi1]

Blze001 wrote...


Whaddya mean "if"? The Quarian's have alot they can offer humanity, they're the only ones to make an AI other than the  Protheans and Cerberus (that we know of).

Who knows what else those bucketed minds can come up with.

Exactly.  Suppose they created a platform with a million or so EDIs, all dedicated to solving certain problems.  Can you imagine the advances that would create? 

Conversely, we already use remote control drones in battle.  Quarians could fill that role and provide a superb force multiplier.

Finally, they already are a source of cheap labor.  Right here, right now, the master passion is to get the cheapest labor we can find.   Maybe we should arrange Terran work visas for them.

[Collider]

Phil725 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Collider wrote...
*snip*
Ekuna wasn't completely hospitable to the Quarians. The gravity there could prove costly to their health.

Which is why they started colonizing it anyway, and the council had to give them a month (I think,) before opening fire on them?  If you want to question the quarians intelligence on choosing that planet fine, but it doesn't excuse the council.

They probably saw the planet better in Elcor hands. I can't say I completely disagree with what the Council did. If the gravity on the planet was deadly to the Quarians, I wouldn't give it to them over the Elcor either.

I have more of a problem with the method rather than the actual decision.  Its not like the quarians will be staying there anyway once they get Rannoch back.

More like if they get Rannoch back. I think there are several scenarios in ME2 that would not lead to getting Rannoch back. Most certainly, if Legion was not recruited, it's very doubtful that there will be Geth-Quarian peace, because you lose the only olive branch the Geth have ever bothered to give, and probably will ever bother to give.

If you don't do Legion's loyalty mission (which would also happen if you don't recruit Legion of course), then it's possible that the Heretic virus will infect all of the geth, making that 5% instead 100%. Quarians are definitely dead then in a conventional war.

It's also possible that the fate of Rannoch may be tied to how you dealt with the Heretics. I just hope that destroying them won't bite me in the ass.

If legion died, then you also lose the olive branch that he was.

I consider Tali as a lesser piece to the puzzle. She's Shepard's connection to the Quarians, but I find Legion far more vital. If Tali does matter in this ordeal...it's more likely that she can influence what happens if she's exonerated. If she's exiled, it's less likely. Because everyone thinks that she had brought geth to the Alarei - basically a traitor. No one is going to listen to her then.

Revealing the evidence breaks up the Quarian fleet. I don't know what would result from that.

From what I recall, the quarians didn't take the correct steps in colonizing, and the council had a right to give the planet to someone else.  That didn't mean they needed to use the opportunity to kick and threaten them again just to assert dominance or something.

What would you suggest they do instead?

[NuclearBuddha]

Lividity Jones wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
Having an embassy seems to imply that the race could be considered for the Council at some point, and thus is playing by the Council's rules.  Note who doesn't have embassies:  the batarians, the krogan, etc.  All the outsiders.

The fact that the Council kicked out the quarian embassy for breaking the rules suggests that having one isn't just a matter of "hey we want to talk."

Point taken.

Still, allowing genocide to occur because the quarians accidentaly broke the "no AI" rule is a strawman arguement at best.

There has to be another reason.

Or they really are just malicious.

Not malicious, just lazy.  I think that by the time the quarians went begging to the Council they'd already lost their homeworld.  The Council probably figured "why get into a horrific and costly war over some small-time race?"  They kick out the quarians, tell everyone to stay out of the Veil, give themselves a pat on the back and go back to making sure everything stays quiet.

Seriously:  if you consider the Council's goal to be "don't make waves" everything they do makes sense.

[solazz]

NuclearBuddha wrote...
Not malicious, just lazy.  I think that by the time the quarians went begging to the Council they'd already lost their homeworld.  The Council probably figured "why get into a horrific and costly war over some small-time race?"  They kick out the quarians, tell everyone to stay out of the Veil, give themselves a pat on the back and go back to making sure everything stays quiet.

Seriously:  if you consider the Council's goal to be "don't make waves" everything they do makes sense.

Pretty much this.

[Lividity Jones]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
Having an embassy seems to imply that the race could be considered for the Council at some point, and thus is playing by the Council's rules.  Note who doesn't have embassies:  the batarians, the krogan, etc.  All the outsiders.

The fact that the Council kicked out the quarian embassy for breaking the rules suggests that having one isn't just a matter of "hey we want to talk."

Point taken.

Still, allowing genocide to occur because the quarians accidentaly broke the "no AI" rule is a strawman arguement at best.

There has to be another reason.

Or they really are just malicious.

Not malicious, just lazy.  I think that by the time the quarians went begging to the Council they'd already lost their homeworld.  The Council probably figured "why get into a horrific and costly war over some small-time race?"  They kick out the quarians, tell everyone to stay out of the Veil, give themselves a pat on the back and go back to making sure everything stays quiet.

Seriously:  if you consider the Council's goal to be "don't make waves" everything they do makes sense.

If that's the case, then yeah, they need to be disposed.

You can't create a functioning government without enforcing it.

This hands-off, status quo, no making waves thing is bull**** and has only been a hinderance.

[Collider]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Collider wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

Collider wrote...

I don't think the Council is bad. They are simply traditionalists and stubborn. I don't like what they did with the Quarians of course, but the Quarians already knew that AI was illegal. I imagine that the Council made an example of the Quarians.

Yeah, letting a species get pushed to the brink of extinction really was necessary there.

That's just negligence. They didn't actively try to make the Quarians extinct.

Regardless, they made a conscious decision to allow genocide to occur.

I guess. I'm not sure about "allowing genocide." They just let the Quarians deal with their mistakes.

I think the Quarian Empire, or whatever it might have actually been called, was a much bigger player in the galaxy before the Morning Wars. Consider the fact they they were a spacefaring race the longest and created space stations that could be compared to the Citadel in size.

That's simply incorrect. The Asari were a spacefaring race the longest. And the Asari are most likely

How exactly are the Quarians going to have an empire worth squat when they have their terrible immune systems? If the Quarians had colonies scattered everywhere, then I doubt the Quarians would be as they are now. I get the impression that Quarians just had their little part in the galaxy and never left it. If they had settlements far away from Geth space, then they would live there and not on the Flotilla.

The three big players were the Council, the Terminus Systems, and the Quarian Empire.

The Council turns their backs on the quarians, in the interest of removing one more factor in enforcing their own laws.

I don't believe that. Quarian Empire? That doesn't sound like something the Codex would simply ommitt, not to mention the absurdity given their immune systems.

[Someone With Mass]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Not malicious, just lazy.  I think that by the time the quarians went begging to the Council they'd already lost their homeworld.  The Council probably figured "why get into a horrific and costly war over some small-time race?"  They kick out the quarians, tell everyone to stay out of the Veil, give themselves a pat on the back and go back to making sure everything stays quiet.

Seriously:  if you consider the Council's goal to be "don't make waves" everything they do makes sense.

Don't forget that they're shortsighted. The geth came back and did a number on them. That's what ya get.

[NuclearBuddha]

Lividity Jones wrote...
If that's the case, then yeah, they need to be disposed.

You can't create a functioning government without enforcing it.

This hands-off, status quo, no making waves thing is bull**** and has only been a hinderance.

They did enforce something:  their no AI law.  It was the easiest way to "end" the crisis.

It works, but only in peacetime.  And if the job is to avoid war at almost any cost, it's always peacetime.  Until it suddenly isn't and everything goes to hell.  That's my point about change coming from without.

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 05 juillet 2010 - 10:12 .

[Lividity Jones]

Collider wrote...

I don't believe that. Quarian Empire? That doesn't sound like something the Codex would simply ommitt, not to mention the absurdity given their immune systems.

Yeah, I know.

Abandoned that theory.

[Collider]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Collider wrote...

The Quarians need to establish themselves as a power in the galaxy before they should, if ever, be on the Council. They need a planet to settle on. The Salarians, Turians, and Asari have had millenias to cultivate their empires. The Quarians only have ships.

After the war, I bet the council races are weakened. Then the quarians can just swoop in and take over everything.

The Quarians are incredibly poor. The Flotilla is barely holding together as it is. They can't take over "everything" - much less from races that had been dominating the galaxy for thousands of years. It just does not happen. 17 million Quarians taking everything from trillions of aliens? Doesn't compute.

[Hicrodonma]

Yeah I have to agree with NB. But that still seems like a really bad idea. Waves are needed. Chaos brings about disruptions, problems, and a whole mess of other things. Those things also bring progress, ingenuity and creativity. Which would bring them up higher both technologically and culturally. This status quo thing is the reason why the Reapers keep whiping everything out.

[NuclearBuddha]

Collider wrote...
I don't believe that. Quarian Empire? That doesn't sound like something the Codex would simply ommitt, not to mention the absurdity given their immune systems.

Collider talkin' truth.

[Collider]

Blze001 wrote...

I definitely wouldn't put it past the Council to put their own superiority over another species.

Quarians were definitely the most technologically advanced race before the Morning Wars, they let them almost get exterminated and still wont work with them.

Asari were. Probably. Unless someone would like to prove otherwise.

[RiptideX1090]

Lividity Jones wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
The quarians were a council race.

They had an embassy.

They were never on the Council.

Unless that counts for some reason.

Having an embassy seems to imply that the race could be considered for the Council at some point, and thus is playing by the Council's rules.  Note who doesn't have embassies:  the batarians, the krogan, etc.  All the outsiders.

The fact that the Council kicked out the quarian embassy for breaking the rules suggests that having one isn't just a matter of "hey we want to talk."

Point taken.

Still, allowing genocide to occur because the quarians accidentaly broke the "no AI" rule is a strawman arguement at best.

There has to be another reason.

Or they really are just malicious.

The quarians are of no use to the Council.

Because of that, they don't give a damn.

Come on, this is politics 101.

[Collider]

Lividity Jones wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
The quarians were a council race.

They had an embassy.

They were never on the Council.

Unless that counts for some reason.

Having an embassy seems to imply that the race could be considered for the Council at some point, and thus is playing by the Council's rules.  Note who doesn't have embassies:  the batarians, the krogan, etc.  All the outsiders.

The fact that the Council kicked out the quarian embassy for breaking the rules suggests that having one isn't just a matter of "hey we want to talk."

Point taken.

Still, allowing genocide to occur because the quarians accidentaly broke the "no AI" rule is a strawman arguement at best.

There has to be another reason.

Or they really are just malicious.

The council aren't an evil entity. They are simply playing politics.

[Collider]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
Having an embassy seems to imply that the race could be considered for the Council at some point, and thus is playing by the Council's rules.  Note who doesn't have embassies:  the batarians, the krogan, etc.  All the outsiders.

The fact that the Council kicked out the quarian embassy for breaking the rules suggests that having one isn't just a matter of "hey we want to talk."

Point taken.

Still, allowing genocide to occur because the quarians accidentaly broke the "no AI" rule is a strawman arguement at best.

There has to be another reason.

Or they really are just malicious.

Not malicious, just lazy.  I think that by the time the quarians went begging to the Council they'd already lost their homeworld.  The Council probably figured "why get into a horrific and costly war over some small-time race?"  They kick out the quarians, tell everyone to stay out of the Veil, give themselves a pat on the back and go back to making sure everything stays quiet.

That's actually a great point. They wouldn't want to start a war over a small time race, yes.

[Collider]

Lividity Jones wrote...
If that's the case, then yeah, they need to be disposed.

You can't create a functioning government without enforcing it.

This hands-off, status quo, no making waves thing is bull**** and has only been a hinderance.

Disposed? I don't think so. The rules need to be amended, that's certain. But having a coup is the last thing the galaxy needs. Everything needs to be gradual.

[NuclearBuddha]

Collider wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
Not malicious, just lazy.  I think that by the time the quarians went begging to the Council they'd already lost their homeworld.  The Council probably figured "why get into a horrific and costly war over some small-time race?"  They kick out the quarians, tell everyone to stay out of the Veil, give themselves a pat on the back and go back to making sure everything stays quiet.

That's actually a great point. They wouldn't want to start a war over a small time race, yes.

Not to mention that the war was already lost at that point.  The quarians didn't go begging until Rannoch was overrun, according to the wikia.

[Blze001]

Collider wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
The quarians were a council race.

They had an embassy.

They were never on the Council.

Unless that counts for some reason.

Having an embassy seems to imply that the race could be considered for the Council at some point, and thus is playing by the Council's rules.  Note who doesn't have embassies:  the batarians, the krogan, etc.  All the outsiders.

The fact that the Council kicked out the quarian embassy for breaking the rules suggests that having one isn't just a matter of "hey we want to talk."

Point taken.

Still, allowing genocide to occur because the quarians accidentaly broke the "no AI" rule is a strawman arguement at best.

There has to be another reason.

Or they really are just malicious.

The council aren't an evil entity. They are simply playing politics.

And the seemingly golden rule of politics, unfortuneately, is to make the little people littler and keep the big people bigger.

Sucks for the Quarians/Hanar/Volus/etc, but there it is.

[SpatFieya]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

The quarians are of no use to the Council.

Because of that, they don't give a damn.

Come on, this is politics 101.

Sad but true.

In politics something is not usually done because it's the right thing to do, but because it helps the politician. If something is of no use, or has no benefits, it's a waste of time.