258292 réponses à ce sujet

[Azint]

Kira Shepard wrote...

That's how most governments are anyway. so long as it doesn't upset the established status quo they don't give a damn. they are complacent and therefore useless. in ME3 given the option I WILL remove them from power without hesitation.

You can not just remove a leadership for a government like that. Even if you managed to do that, they would likely have candidates prepared to fill in for the Council you exterminated. Even if they didn't, the whole system would fall into chaos for such an abrupt change and it will more than likely cause much more damage than you hoped to repair.

[CptSkull]

Azint wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Even if that group of people is outcast who the rest of the galaxy looks down on?  I see a much larger uproar over using resources to actually help the quarians.  The people seem to be just fine with the quarians being a downtrodden race stuck in the far reaches of the galaxy.

I really, really hate analogical arguements, but I will use one for this.

Think about Africa, think about how any major power looks upon Africa today. The quarians are not so different from that. Something so noticable, yet consistently downplayed during foreing affairs and media. They are not actually ignored, but the idea is to have people think about something else rather than the downtrodden.

I see the Quarians more as gypsies.

[Calculatrice]

CptSkull wrote...

Azint wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Even if that group of people is outcast who the rest of the galaxy looks down on?  I see a much larger uproar over using resources to actually help the quarians.  The people seem to be just fine with the quarians being a downtrodden race stuck in the far reaches of the galaxy.

I really, really hate analogical arguements, but I will use one for this.

Think about Africa, think about how any major power looks upon Africa today. The quarians are not so different from that. Something so noticable, yet consistently downplayed during foreing affairs and media. They are not actually ignored, but the idea is to have people think about something else rather than the downtrodden.

I see the Quarians more as gypsies.

Yeah, always struck me the same.

[Azint]

Skadhi1 wrote...

No, Africa is not being ignored.  China is in there big time, going after resources.  And the U.S. has established Africa Command to deal with various strategic initiatives.

Africa's problem is that too much of the cash goes to the rulers.  Look at Nigeria.

Fortunately, the Quarians don't seem to have those problems.

I am talking about major powers in the western world, using that as an anology for the Council.

[huntrrz]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Still, allowing genocide to occur because the quarians accidentaly broke the "no AI" rule is a strawman arguement at best.

There has to be another reason.

Exactly.  That's where I come up with the idea of the Council taking advantage of the Geth disaster to disenfranchise potential rivals.  The expulsion and continued exclusion of the Quarians doesn't make sense otherwise.

[Phil725]

Azint wrote...

Phil725 wrote...

Even if that group of people is outcast who the rest of the galaxy looks down on?  I see a much larger uproar over using resources to actually help the quarians.  The people seem to be just fine with the quarians being a downtrodden race stuck in the far reaches of the galaxy.

I really, really hate analogical arguements, but I will use one for this.

Think about Africa, think about how any major power looks upon Africa today. The quarians are not so different from that. Something so noticable, yet consistently downplayed during foreing affairs and media. They are not actually ignored, but the idea is to have people think about something else rather than the downtrodden.

I'm with you on disliking analogical arguments, because they rarely fully apply.  In this case, I don't see how the quarians and Africans are too similar.  Its not like the Africans were once stronger, and now thanks to consistent effort from the rest of the world will stay weak.  The council and general population seem to have a different view than current powers do towards Africa.  The people don't care about the quarians.  They know their situation, and they aren't going to go out of their ways to help them.  As rip said, they serve no purpose for the council.  Everyone seems to be in agreement that they are a lesser race, and are happy as long as they don't bother them.

[Someone With Mass]

All this political BS is making my head hurt. Can we have some Tali, please?

[Collider]

Phil725 wrote...
There are two ways to think about this, logically, and factoring in that its a game.  For the its a game side, I just go back to the belief that nothing we do in ME2 will matter towards the plot in ME3.

I REALLY doubt that.

Bioware has stated that they want all games to stand alone, and that can't happen when you can't do everything in one game if you played another a certain way. 

What constitutes "stand alone" is debatable. I consider ME2 to be "stand alone" because you don't have played ME1 to play the game or understand it. Newbies can pick up the game and understand everything that needs to be understood. That's really all I think that stand alone means. It can be played without the other games.

Kind of like how regardless of whether Wrex is alive or not, you're allowed to go into Tuchanka and do what you need to do.

That's not the same. If Wrex is dead, the Krogan stick to their warmongering, xenophobic ways. If Wrex is alive, things start to change. Similarly, it seems to me that if Legion is dead or otherwise disposed, the Quarians remain as they were after Tali's trial (if you did it). Because they have no other reason to. If he's alive, then things start to change.

Now thinking about it logically is different.  I wouldn't be so quick to say that Legion is the only chance.  What he signifies is that the geth are finally open to branching out and discussing affairs with organics.  Who's to say they wouldn't just try and contact Shep in another way without him? 

The Geth took long enough to contact organics as it is. If they first and only time they even bothered talking to them ends in failure, do you really think they are going to try again, given how long it took them in the first place? No. Legion was one of a kind. If he's destroyed or given to Cerberus (an organization which is far from the best representation of organics)...The Geth aren't really about second chances. They are logical.

I don't see Tali mattering much to the whole process honestly, its up to the geth to agree to peace, and then for the quarians to take that offer or leave it, and I see both happening regardless of where Tali is.

As do I.

I'm aware that there are circumstances that could lead to the quarians not getting Rannoch back in a realistic scenario, but from a player perspective, I would bet a lot of money on it happening in ME3.

It's really hard to imagine that. The average player in ME3 can still have a happy ending without the Quarians retaking Rannoch. Before anyone says, "but that wouldn't be my happy ending ;_;", I am not talking about you.

The fact that they were settling on a crappy planet just shows how limited their options are.  If I was them, I would hold out on the flotilla for as long as I could, while looking for eventual options.  I fully believe that Rannoch will open up, and if it didn't, they would have to settle for some crappy planet until they could get it back.

Not what I meant. I mean what would you have the Council do in regards to Ekuna.

[NCLanceman]

Someone With Mass wrote...

All this political BS is making my head hurt. Can we have some Tali, please?

I find it all fascinating, actually.

Well, not really, I just wanted to use the picture.

[Skadhi1]

Someone With Mass wrote...

All this political BS is making my head hurt. Can we have some Tali, please?

I'm still hoping for some mini-fic about her cooking Shepard a birthday cake.

Or, better yet, meeting his mother, the ship captain (Shepard as spacer).

[Lividity Jones]

SenHai wrote...

Anonymous Reviews Disabled? DAMN YOU JONES DAMN YOU AND RIP TOO!

*trollface.jpg*

[Calculatrice]

Someone With Mass wrote...

All this political BS is making my head hurt. Can we have some Tali, please?

Yes... I need some Tali.

[NuclearBuddha]

Skadhi1 wrote...
Or, better yet, meeting his mother, the ship captain (Shepard as spacer).

Calinstel has one with this.

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 05 juillet 2010 - 10:34 .

[Collider]

huntrrz wrote...

Collider wrote...

huntrrz wrote...

I suspect that the Quarians were too prominent for the Council's liking, and when the opportunity arose to completely disenfranchise them they eagerly took it.

I don't think there is evidence of the Council disliking Quarians before the Morning War. I doubt the Quarians were in much of a place to threaten the Council given their immune systems. They can't exactly be expansive when they die being on most worlds that other races can live on fine. They probably stuck to their little slice of the galaxy, and stayed there.

I didn't say the Council disliked them.  I suspect they saw them as rivals for power, a prominent race on the verge of pushing for a seat on the Council.

We never really got an indication that they were rivals.

Evidence for 'prominence':
They had an embassy on the Citadel.  They were technological geniuses.  They had mapped more relays than anyone else.

So do the Elcor. And the volus. They can't be prominent if all they have is a little part of the galaxy. Literally, that's the only place they could live.

Counter-argument:
They don't "die being on most worlds that other races can live on fine", they actually adapt to new environments which might even make them more of a 'threat' for widespread expansion.

What are you talking about?

To "probably stuck to their little slice of the galaxy" I again offer "They had mapped more relays than anyone else".

So? If they can't expand, it doesn't matter.

[Alphyn]

Someone With Mass wrote...

All this political BS is making my head hurt. Can we have some Tali, please?

I agree - Tali levels are dropping!



Ach, I'm loosin' the power, captain!

[Azint]

Phil725 wrote...

I'm with you on disliking analogical arguments, because they rarely fully apply.  In this case, I don't see how the quarians and Africans are too similar.  Its not like the Africans were once stronger, and now thanks to consistent effort from the rest of the world will stay weak.  The council and general population seem to have a different view than current powers do towards Africa.  The people don't care about the quarians.  They know their situation, and they aren't going to go out of their ways to help them.  As rip said, they serve no purpose for the council.  Everyone seems to be in agreement that they are a lesser race, and are happy as long as they don't bother them.

Exactly why I hate anaological arguements; people look more at the differences than the similarites you are trying to show.

What I am trying to argue is that the quarians are not ignored by the Council, they are not given full attention. There is a difference between the two. If they were actually ignored, then the quarians would be doing whatever they wanted to, which is obviously not the case. They are pushed to the sided becauase the Council does not want to deal with them.

[Calculatrice]

Skadhi1 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

All this political BS is making my head hurt. Can we have some Tali, please?

I'm still hoping for some mini-fic about her cooking Shepard a birthday cake.

Or, better yet, meeting his mother, the ship captain (Shepard as spacer).

Yesssss


A sleep over with pillow fights and truth or dare:innocent:

[Collider]

Lividity Jones wrote...

Collider wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...
If that's the case, then yeah, they need to be disposed.

You can't create a functioning government without enforcing it.

This hands-off, status quo, no making waves thing is bull**** and has only been a hinderance.

Disposed? I don't think so. The rules need to be amended, that's certain. But having a coup is the last thing the galaxy needs. Everything needs to be gradual.

How exactly do you plan on amending rules and policies that have been in place for centuries?

It's a lot more plausible and less chaotic than disposing the current council.

[Someone With Mass]

Skadhi1 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

All this political BS is making my head hurt. Can we have some Tali, please?

I'm still hoping for some mini-fic about her cooking Shepard a birthday cake.

Or, better yet, meeting his mother, the ship captain (Shepard as spacer).

Yeah. That'd be interesting. To see Hannah's reaction when she finds out that her little boy is dating a quarian.

[SpatFieya]

Calculatrice wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

All this political BS is making my head hurt. Can we have some Tali, please?

Yes... I need some Tali.

[Lividity Jones]

Collider wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...

Collider wrote...

Lividity Jones wrote...
If that's the case, then yeah, they need to be disposed.

You can't create a functioning government without enforcing it.

This hands-off, status quo, no making waves thing is bull**** and has only been a hinderance.

Disposed? I don't think so. The rules need to be amended, that's certain. But having a coup is the last thing the galaxy needs. Everything needs to be gradual.

How exactly do you plan on amending rules and policies that have been in place for centuries?

It's a lot more plausible and less chaotic than disposing the current council.

Then how?

Or do you not have an answer?

[Calculatrice]

Good.