258292 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryshan]

Posting it here to see what you guys think.

[uhdnrt]

@Collider: You are correct. The biggest difference is that Miranda is Renegade, Tali is Paragon (comparatively). I find it interesting that you can acquire their loyalty, and they end up leaving the groups that they identified with and based much of their self worth around.



Miranda leaves her father figure (TIM), and Tali leaves her family (the fleet). Through the actions of a single man, both have learned that they are not tools, but people. Both learn they have worth based on who they are, not what they can do.

[Collider]

uhdnrt wrote...

@Collider: You are correct. The biggest difference is that Miranda is Renegade, Tali is Paragon (comparatively). I find it interesting that you can acquire their loyalty, and they end up leaving the groups that they identified with and based much of their self worth around.

Miranda leaves her father figure (TIM), and Tali leaves her family (the fleet). Through the actions of a single man, both have learned that they are not tools, but people. Both learn they have worth based on who they are, not what they can do.

Indeed! I am glad that someone else gets it.

[Formis_Sage]

FsDxRAGE wrote...
I make choices on what I would do if I were in Shepard's shoes...or erm.... boots

That's maybe true but do you really know how would you react if you were in those situations on you own and not in "Shepard's boots"? Would it be the same reaction?
That is what I'm curious about...

Modifié par Formis_Sage, 08 juillet 2010 - 09:47 .

[FsDxRAGE]

Formis_Sage wrote...

FsDxRAGE wrote...
I make choices on what I would do if I were in Shepard's shoes...or erm.... boots

That's maybe true but do you really know how would you react if you were in those situations on you own and not in "Shepard's boots"? Would it be the same reaction?
That is what I'm curious about...

well i don't know, since I am sitting on a safe couch at home

[TK Dude]

Collider wrote...

I found a lot of parallels between Miranda's father and Tali's father. They were both rather controlling of their daughters. In some way, I think that they felt like their daughter was a trophy or something to be presented to other people. Tali was put through the most rigorous military and engineering training in the Quarian Fleet. Considering he is an important Admiral, Rael probably thought he could do no less than that.

Both fathers never really show they cared. Rael did care, but he never indicated so until it was too late. They were never shown love by their fathers - Miranda's father because he cared more about his empire - and Rael because he cared more about politics.

Therefore, both women had to rely on others as "family." Cerberus became Miranda's family. The Fleet was Tali's family. When you have such a large amount of obligations as Cerberus or the Fleet would entail, that is going to affect you. That is a heavy burden on you. What resulted is that Miranda and Tali both had lives dedicated to other people. They almost never do things for themselves. It's always the projects, it's always the fleet, it's always the suicide mission. Their romances are really about them doing something for themselves for once, to treat themselves.

I even saw parallels in their loyalty missions. Miranda and Tali both had people who they thought they could trust. Miranda had Nikhet. Tali had the Fleet/Rael. In their loyalty missions, they first go through denial. They couldn't have done this. They couldn't have betrayed me. It would be counter to everything they had known. But no. They were both used for someone's elses' motives. Nikhet wanted the money that Miranda's father had to offer.

The Admiralty Board used Tali, someone who was supposed to be a well respected member of the Fleet, for their own political agendas.

So both Miranda and Tali were tossed under the bus by people who were supposed to be trustworthy - really - among the only people they thought they could trust.

At the end of their loyalty missions, they are willing to forsake their own happiness, again - for other people. Miranda is willing to never get the chance to speak to her sister, so that her sister is safe. Tali is willing to be exiled and her reputation destroyed so that the horrible nature of the experiments is never let out, so the safety of the Fleet and her father's image is not compromised.

I'm surprised many people do not pick up on these similarities. Miranda and Tali are similar in many regards. They are workaholics who have dedicated their lives to other people. They are both strong women who are geniuses among their races. And their fathers shaped who they are.

I will also add that the factions that Tali and Miranda are affiliated with are pretty much demonized by the galaxy. Cerberus is known as a terrorist organization. The Quarians are stigmatized as thieves, beggars, and scum. Yet they were tireless defenders of their affiliations - and both were strong enough to tell their faction to go to hell when they feel betrayed.

I always felt that were some similarities between Miranda and Tali when I was playing their loyalty missions.
They were both willing to sacrifice their happiness for their own sake.
However, there's differences between these two but I won't go in detail for now.

Modifié par TK Dude, 08 juillet 2010 - 09:52 .

[Someone With Mass]

Formis_Sage wrote...

FsDxRAGE wrote...
I make choices on what I would do if I were in Shepard's shoes...or erm.... boots

That's maybe true but do you really know how would you react if you were in those situations on you own and not in "Shepard's boots"? Would it be the same reaction?
That is what I'm curious about...

Like pulling a gun in someone's face? Probably not.

The thought of having a person's fate and/or future in my hands would simply be too much for me, to be honest.

Fortunately, I have someone that can help me.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 08 juillet 2010 - 09:53 .

[nitefyre410]

uhdnrt wrote...

@Collider: You are correct. The biggest difference is that Miranda is Renegade, Tali is Paragon (comparatively). I find it interesting that you can acquire their loyalty, and they end up leaving the groups that they identified with and based much of their self worth around.

Miranda leaves her father figure (TIM), and Tali leaves her family (the fleet). Through the actions of a single man, both have learned that they are not tools, but people. Both learn they have worth based on who they are, not what they can do.

  

I don't think  Miranda is renegade by  personality. she wants to trust people but the world she lives in she cant  in order to survive. Miranda wants to have faith in people thats why she said "He hurt but did not break me"      

It the same with Tali she was raised in world where you have to put the safe the ship and the fleet first because if not one screw up and a lot people die.  I think thats the Point that  Koris was tying to make that a lot people miss was that Re'al put  the entire fleet in danger by running  his Geth experiments and Tali did  to  by sending parts back.  to fleet. It was selfish act  disguised behind selfless intentions. 

[Formis_Sage]

uhdnrt wrote...
@Collider: You are correct. The biggest difference is that Miranda is Renegade, Tali is Paragon (comparatively). I find it interesting that you can acquire their loyalty, and they end up leaving the groups that they identified with and based much of their self worth around.

Miranda leaves her father figure (TIM), and Tali leaves her family (the fleet). Through the actions of a single man, both have learned that they are not tools, but people. Both learn they have worth based on who they are, not what they can do.

You both are indeed right in your posts. What I don't like on Miranda is just her personality in compare to Tali.
It's true that they had in some respects similiar life but they have chosen different path in some respects too.

[Tairis Deamhan]

No arguments on the similarities, they are definitely there. Uhdnrt pretty much got it right. The difference is between Paragon and Renegade.

[Formis_Sage]

FsDxRAGE wrote...

Formis_Sage wrote...

FsDxRAGE wrote...
I make choices on what I would do if I were in Shepard's shoes...or erm.... boots

That's maybe true but do you really know how would you react if you were in those situations on you own and not in "Shepard's boots"? Would it be the same reaction?
That is what I'm curious about...

well i don't know, since I am sitting on a safe couch at home

And that's the RPG we are only playing for "heroes" but are not heroes. (In most cases)

[Wiggs Magee]

Ryshan wrote...



Posting it here to see what you guys think.

Well drawn much better than anything i could do . Well done =)

[Someone With Mass]

Formis_Sage wrote...
And that's the RPG we are only playing for "heroes" but are not heroes. (In most cases)

That's pretty much what all video games are for. To escape the reality for a moment, and be that badass you've always wanted to be, but simply chose not to, because there will be consequences if you're beating someone with a baseball bat, or decided to blow up a gas station because they were out of candy bars.
  

[Homebound]

Ryshan wrote...



Posting it here to see what you guys think.

Took me longer than it should have.

[Formis_Sage]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Formis_Sage wrote...
And that's the RPG we are only playing for "heroes" but are not heroes. (In most cases)

That's pretty much what all video games are for. To escape the reality for a moment, and be that badass you've always wanted to be, but simply chose not to, because there will be consequences if you're beating someone with a baseball bat, or decided to blow up a gas station because they were out of candy bars.
  

Indeed, and  RPG brought us Tali so we should be grateful for her.

[Formis_Sage]

Just_mike wrote...

Ryshan wrote...



Posting it here to see what you guys think.

Took me longer than it should have.

6 minutes instead of 5?

[Titanium Man]

Just_mike wrote...


Took me longer than it should have.

I like the use of purple to indicate mortality.

[Homebound]

Formis_Sage wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Formis_Sage wrote...
And that's the RPG we are only playing for "heroes" but are not heroes. (In most cases)

That's pretty much what all video games are for. To escape the reality for a moment, and be that badass you've always wanted to be
  

Speak for yourself, I try to live the dream, not just play it.

[Formis_Sage]

ME1 is awaiting me again.

Keelah se'lai

[Homebound]

Titanium Man wrote...

Just_mike wrote...


Took me longer than it should have.

I like the use of purple to indicate mortality.

Im particularly proud of how her Quarian breasts turned out. Although I think I didnt translate her supple hips well enough. Its hard to do so in this particular art form.

[Titanium Man]

Just_mike wrote...

Titanium Man wrote...

I like the use of purple to indicate mortality.

Im particularly proud of how her Quarian breasts turned out. Although I think I didnt translate her supple hips well enough. Its hard to do so in this particular art form.

This is straying into DeviantArt talk and I am not pleased.

[uhdnrt]

Formis_Sage wrote...
You both are indeed right in your posts. What I don't like on Miranda is just her personality in compare to Tali.
It's true that they had in some respects similar life but they have chosen different path in some respects too.

Granted.  It boils down to (again) the renegade and paragon options.  Miranda chose to rescue her sister, but then concealed the truth from her closest ally.  There are other examples. 

What I am getting at is that, I think the two would actually get along once Miranda learned to overcome some of her ethnocentrism. And (depending on how close you got to romancing her) her jealously of Tali's place in Shepard's...life....

BBL, mini-fic idea!

[Titanium Man]

uhdnrt wrote...
What I am getting at is that, I think the two would actually get along once Miranda learned to overcome some of her ethnocentrism. And (depending on how close you got to romancing her) her jealously of Tali's place in Shepard's...life....

BBL, mini-fic idea!

Make it good, this sounds like a good plot idea.

[Raid1000]

Ryshan wrote...



Posting it here to see what you guys think.

She holds weapon too low, her feets are too short and they are in weird position.
Good job, I realy like patter on cloth.

[Homebound]

uhdnrt wrote...

Formis_Sage wrote...
You both are indeed right in your posts. What I don't like on Miranda is just her personality in compare to Tali.
It's true that they had in some respects similar life but they have chosen different path in some respects too.

Granted.  It boils down to (again) the renegade and paragon options.  Miranda chose to rescue her sister, but then concealed the truth from her closest ally.  There are other examples. 

What I am getting at is that, I think the two would actually get along once Miranda learned to overcome some of her ethnocentrism. And (depending on how close you got to romancing her) her jealously of Tali's place in Shepard's...life....

BBL, mini-fic idea!

lol when you say "Life" what you really mean is Shepard's "bed".

I havent been following this convo so forgive me for saying that TALI CAN WIPE THE FLOOR WITH MIRANDA'S FACE.  \\m/