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[RiptideX1090]

Azint wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Now I feel dead inside.

Rip, it's a television show.

I know.

But now, when I'm writing Reckoning... I'm going to be hearing those sobs in my head the whole time.

GAH. **** my life...

[Zuranamee]

Well since sleeping is apparently too difficult right now, guess we're back... btw, won't this get locked again if it keeps veering off-topic? Or have the mods given up on it?

[NuclearBuddha]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
But it's not the average viewer wandering in without knowing.  It's freaking Goat.  He's sat through a crapload of discussions here.

Are we talking about the biological children debate again? Or another discussion I missed?

Goat's been around forever (or used to be, at least).  He's probably seen just about every discussion twice.

[Collider]

RedTracer7 wrote...

Collider wrote...

In the interest of starting discussion, I have this query:

At the end of Tali's loyalty mission and during her trial, you have to choice of whether to withhold the evidence of her father's experiments, or to let the evidence be known.

If you withhold the evidence, you're not telling the Quarian public of the war crimes conducted by someone of their government. Don't they deserve to know?

Let's answer why it is or is not moral to withhold the evidence without resorting to "It's Tali"

Quarian society lacks political ties, political parties, or any form of direct representation.  As such, "leaders" in their "government" generally act according to their own motives.  Thus, Rael's death does not reflect on anyone politically, economically, or socially.  His actions were his own, as were his motives.

By releasing the information, you damage the psyche and reputation of a productive member of quarian society (Tali).  By keeping the information, you hurt noone besides those already dead, and this does not matter as I outlined above.

As such, I see it as more useful, and actually more inline with the communal nature of quarian society, to withhold the information.

Good point, but if possible, let's try to answer this question without factoring in Tali.

[Azint]

Collider wrote...

Let's answer why it is or is not moral to withhold the evidence without resorting to "It's Tali"

Since when have I ever answered a question like that?

In the interest of starting discussion, I have this query:

At the end of Tali's loyalty mission and during her trial, you have to choice of whether to withhold the evidence of her father's experiments, or to let the evidence be known.

If you withhold the evidence, you're not telling the Quarian public of the war crimes conducted by someone of their government. Don't they deserve to know?

Seeing as how the quarians themselves can not settle on a decision, I actually did predict that it may cause more harm to the composition of their fleet integrity than it would solve any problem. The quarians are not ready to make any sort of decision like that obviously, so whatever would help them is a better option. Not all truths are meant to be shared.

[RiptideX1090]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
But it's not the average viewer wandering in without knowing.  It's freaking Goat.  He's sat through a crapload of discussions here.

Are we talking about the biological children debate again? Or another discussion I missed?

Goat's been around forever (or used to be, at least).  He's probably seen just about every discussion twice.

I know who he is.

What did he do that bothers you though?

[RiptideX1090]

Zuranamee wrote...

Well since sleeping is apparently too difficult right now, guess we're back... btw, won't this get locked again if it keeps veering off-topic? Or have the mods given up on it?

We've actually been keeping it more or less even. We always go back to Tali eventually.

In short? Don't question a good thing.

[NuclearBuddha]

RiptideX1090 wrote...
What did he do that bothers you though?

Thinks we're unserious.  Oh well.  Like a guy who used to troll the thread with a Miranda avatar can judge.  LOL.

[SpatFieya]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Azint wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Now I feel dead inside.

Rip, it's a television show.

I know.

But now, when I'm writing Reckoning... I'm going to be hearing those sobs in my head the whole time.

GAH. **** my life...

Find the lumberjack manliness inside thee to prevail!

[Azint]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Azint wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
Looking back through, I saw Korn mentioned.  Meh.  I saw them in concert once and basically every other band I saw that night was better.  Then again, they were facing off against Powerman 5000, System of a Down, and Metallica.

Now that is hardly a fair comparison...

I know.  I think it was System that opened.  Serj came out dressed like Castro in short shorts and announced quite loudly that the satanic bunny rabbits were going to eat everyone.  And then they rocked.

They split up before I became a fan.

I have little chance of ever seeing SoaD in concert.

Though I am going to see Disturbed and Avenged Sevenfold this coming September.

[NuclearBuddha]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Zuranamee wrote...
Well since sleeping is apparently too difficult right now, guess we're back... btw, won't this get locked again if it keeps veering off-topic? Or have the mods given up on it?

We've actually been keeping it more or less even. We always go back to Tali eventually.

In short? Don't question a good thing.

This, and it looks like Woo's been working out any anger issues on the DA2 forum.

Modifié par NuclearBuddha, 14 juillet 2010 - 07:28 .

[Zuranamee]

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Zuranamee wrote...

Well since sleeping is apparently too difficult right now, guess we're back... btw, won't this get locked again if it keeps veering off-topic? Or have the mods given up on it?

We've actually been keeping it more or less even. We always go back to Tali eventually.

In short? Don't question a good thing.

Fine by us, as long as it's on topic half the time it'll keep our attention.

[SpatFieya]

Azint wrote...
They split up before I became a fan.

I have little chance of ever seeing SoaD in concert.

Though I am going to see Disturbed and Avenged Sevenfold this coming September.

Saw Disturbed and Five Finger Death Punch at the house of blues. Damn good show. Those guys know how to perform.

[Collider]

See last page for possible explanation for why Goat may feel as he does (I don't speak for him however).

[RiptideX1090]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...
What did he do that bothers you though?

Thinks we're unserious.  Oh well.  Like a guy who used to troll the thread with a Miranda avatar can judge.  LOL.

Unserious?

Elaborate, please? I don't follow.

[NuclearBuddha]

Azint wrote...
Though I am going to see Disturbed and Avenged Sevenfold this coming September.

A7x isn't my thing, but I imagine Disturbed with tear some sh*t up.

[RiptideX1090]

SpatFieya wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Azint wrote...

RiptideX1090 wrote...

Now I feel dead inside.

Rip, it's a television show.

I know.

But now, when I'm writing Reckoning... I'm going to be hearing those sobs in my head the whole time.

GAH. **** my life...

Find the lumberjack manliness inside thee to prevail!

We'll get it done.

But damn if I don't feel bad about it along the way...

[NuclearBuddha]

RiptideX1090 wrote...
Unserious?

Elaborate, please? I don't follow.

Ask Collider.

[Azint]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

This, and it looks like Woo's been working out any anger issues on the DA2 forum.

The DA2 forums are ripe for picking. I had a field day when DA2 was announced.

I am a hammerhead snark.

[NuclearBuddha]

Collider wrote...
See last page for possible explanation for why Goat may feel as he does (I don't speak for him however).

Complain or make the world thread a better place.  Shrug.

[RiptideX1090]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Azint wrote...
Though I am going to see Disturbed and Avenged Sevenfold this coming September.

A7x isn't my thing, but I imagine Disturbed with tear some sh*t up.

Disturbed really is something special. I normally NEVER like more than one or two songs by a single band. Disturbed, Metallica, Powerman 5000 and Trans-Siberian Orchestra are some of the very rare exceptions to that rule.

[NuclearBuddha]

Azint wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
This, and it looks like Woo's been working out any anger issues on the DA2 forum.

The DA2 forums are ripe for picking. I had a field day when DA2 was announced.

I am a hammerhead snark.

There was some hilarity to be read over there.  But only because I don't give two craps about DA2.

[Collider]

My opinion on Tali loyalty mission choice:



I think it's pretentious of Shepard to think that he can interfere with Quarian politics and effectively decide FOR the Quarian government on what to do with the evidence, rather than leaving the matter to them instead.



An analogy of this would be being a guest to a foreign nation on simple business, and revealing extremely sensitive information about the actions of one of their politicians in a public square surrounded by civilians instead of telling the government or police privately - therefore causing social disorder in a country you are only in because of a technicality.



So Shepard would be going like "Oh, yea, let me rule your government for you," effectively. Shepard has little business interfering with Quarian politics. The only reason Shepard was going to Migrant Fleet in the first place was to help Tali, and that is probably the only reason why Shepard was allowed on the Flotilla in the first place (especially given the fact that he is part of Cerberus). He is a foreigner who has no political status whatsoever and was not elected.



I will also say this - revealing the evidence may actually make experiments more likely to happen. I know you may hate all of these analogies, but I'm going to make one anyway - take the police for instance. Part of the reason why they are so meticulous about releasing information on a case is because the information is sensitive and public awareness could mean that the suspects learn of what the police are doing and what they know. If they learn of those things, they could very well escape, tamper with evidence, distance themselves, or otherwise not be brought to justice.



The evidence not being in public knowledge can put experimenters (or those aspiring to be) in a false sense of security. It's well within the realm of possibility that Rael and his team were getting help from people off of the Alarei. It means that they don't know that the government knows (if you tell Han'Gerrel of what Tali's father did, for instance), which makes the government's job easier in bringing those people to justice.



Ultimately, not revealing the evidence respects the Quarian government's sovereignty and allows them to decide what to do with the contents and evidence within the Alarei, rather than Shepard deciding for them. Shepard can also tell at least Han'Gerrel privately (possibly other admirals as well) of what happened, which again gives them the opportunity to decide what to do with the evidence themselves.



Another point, that you guys talked about, was the issue of Quarian security and stability. I don't believe Rael'Zorah is worth quite possibly causing social and political chaos and disorder over. Even less so with a foreigner of no political status like Shepard revealing the evidence.

[NuclearBuddha]

Have a chance to look over CotEM, Azint?

[Azint]

SpatFieya wrote...

Saw Disturbed and Five Finger Death Punch at the house of blues. Damn good show. Those guys know how to perform.

My first concert was in '08. I went to Projekt Revolution to see Linkin Park (yes, I actually am a fan), Atreyu and Chris Cornell were also great.