54 réponses à ce sujet

[binaryemperor]

  I have mixed feelings on the global cooldown system in ME2.  I like that the fast, global cooldowns correlate better with the fast paced, cover based action system in ME2, and it does somewhat contribute to the Canon of some of the tech abilities and biotic abilities, but I kind of prefer the local cooldowns like in ME1.  Just increase the cooldown time to an extent and separate them out. There are some abilities that I would use more often if it did not prevent me from using a more potent ability.
For example, I never use shockwave because it has a longer cooldown and it prevents me from using something more useful like Pull or Reave, but if I was able to throw out a shockwave and then jump up and Reave the enemies while they are busy recovering from stumbling, it would be a better combo. The longer recharges prevent me from spamming the combo, but It could allow me to think about what abilites I should use while not excluding others entirely.

Other thoughts?

[Unit-Alpha]

I'm not sure. I love the fact that I can now spam Slam on husks and never use my weapon on them, but combining effects like in ME1 would be good.

[TuringPoint]

Not quite the right solution.



Mana is probably better gameplay wise... but how would that even work? And mana is sort of a pat solution anyway.

[camirish1]

I made a post about this but it didn't catch on.  I will repost it here, was concerning combining the global with the individual cooldowns:

Since the ME2 developers were willing to steal learn
from other companies about how to make better shooter mechanics, they
should steal use ideas from World of Warcraft (and
other MMOs) about combining Global and Individual cooldowns for
abilities. 

So for anyone that doesn't know, in WoW, when you
use any ability, it causes 2 different cooldowns to occur.  The first
one is a 1.5 second global cooldown where you cannot use any of your
abilities; the second is a cooldown for the ability that was used, which
is different for each ability.

For an idea about how this will
work in ME, I will use a vanguard with Barrier and assume a 2 second
global cooldown is in place.

So at the start of a fight, I use
Barrier and a 2 second global cooldown occurs.  At the end of these 2
seconds, I can now Charge but I can't use Barrier again for another 10
seconds.   After I charge, another 2 second global CD occurs after which
I can't use Charge again for another 4 seconds or Barrier for another 8
seconds, BUT I can use Pull.

So in the end, I was able to use a
better variation of abilities but was still limited on how much I can
use them.  This is probably more a suggestion for ME3 since this would
probably make encounters way too easy now, but it would prevent players
from being pigionholed into only using 1 or 2 powers and ignoring the
rest.

Modifié par camirish1, 06 avril 2010 - 06:46 .

[Oisrisso]

It's good. It balances the use of abilities, keeps up the pace of combat, and makes you work more as a team (especially on insanity) to combine effects, etc. I just wish your team members didn't have a longer cooldown than you do.

[ZeppMan217]

Makes sense for tech abilities but for biotic...

[Lord_Tirian]

ZeppMan217 wrote...

Makes sense for tech abilities but for biotic...

Also makes sense: You just pushed a who-knows-how-much energy through your bio-amp. Depending on the amount of stuff you just squeezed through, you have to give your neural system and the amps a chance to recuperate to avoid damage.

In fact, from a in-universe point of view, global cool downs make sense for most abilities, since you have only *one* omni-tool and only *one* brain/bio-amp all your abilities go through.

Gameplay-wise, I like the global cooldowns, they avoid front-loaded spamming of abilities, keep the pace and gel nicely with the cover system. It's not a perfect system, but a lot better than in ME1.

However, I do see potential for improvement, like abilities that interact with your cooldown (e.g. biotics could have a 10% change that the use of a power has no cooldown at all, thus allowing for occasional combo - would also reward paying attention to your cooldowns to spot these opportunities) or abilities that have an individual cooldown (that would be a good way to give soldiers/gun special abilities a little bit of unique feel and flair, by introducing things like concussive shot-style boosts that work on individual cooldown).

[OniGanon]

I'd much prefer individual cooldowns like ME1, but with reduced cooldowns and lessened potential for cooldown reduction. A global cooldown system means too many abilities get shunted to the wayside because they intefere with more important abilities. Vanguards for instance don't get to use their abilities nearly as much as they ought to because it inteferes with Charge. OTOH, you don't want to be able to spam abilities every .5s so each cooldown has to be substantial enough that you still have to think about what abilities to use, when to use them and in what order.



They succeeded with such a system in Dragon Age, I'm sure they could pull it off for ME3.

[cruc1al]

I think cooldowns should be grouped. A shared cooldown for biotic abilities, another for tech abilities, and another for combat abilities. That way, mixed ("dual") classes would actually have the advantage of being able to use both ability groups in rapid succession. Pure classes however, should be simply better at what they do than dual classes (more damage or duration, or better cooldowns). Alternatively, dual classes could gradually ease the penalties of being dual as they level up; a bit like dual wielding in d&d.

[Iosev]

I think the cooldown system in Mass Effect 2 is fine for the most part. Having a global cooldown for all of your abilities makes the game play a bit more tactical, because you have to coordinate your abilities with the abilities of your squad. Having individual cooldowns for each ability would decrease the need for that coordination, which would make the game play less tactical, and more about just mashing abilities.



Besides, most of the cool downs are fairly short, especially when you compare them to the cooldowns in the first game.

[sammcl]

Should use the same cooldown system as WoW, that game's popular for a reason. My vanguard was particularly handicapped by the cooldown system due to the need to charge frequently to replenish shields. I really didn't *need* any ability besides charge, but it woulda been nice all the same : /

[Dimartica]

my insanity sentinal was ruined by global cooldowns, it was awsome combining my sabotage and dampining with my biotics.

[gauntz]

It's better than the ME1 system, where cooldowns were ridiculously long unless you had loads of talents and medical exoskeletons, but it should be discarded.



The power bar suggestions from Scarecrow's proposed changes is great. In short, you have a bar which depletes when you use powers. You have the ability to make combos but also can't spam powers and have to consider what powers to use.

[Bogsnot1]

Oisrisso wrote...

It's good. It balances the use of abilities, keeps up the pace of combat, and makes you work more as a team (especially on insanity) to combine effects, etc. I just wish your team members didn't have a longer cooldown than you do.

Thats why I like taking Samara/Morinth along with me. One of their final passive upgrades makes their cooldown equivalent to yours.  Reave is fun, but dominating abominations and watching them explode amogst their former allies has its chuckle value.

[Iosev]

sammcl wrote...

Should use the same cooldown system as WoW, that game's popular for a reason. My vanguard was particularly handicapped by the cooldown system due to the need to charge frequently to replenish shields. I really didn't *need* any ability besides charge, but it woulda been nice all the same : /

The cooldown system in WoW is necessary because the classes in those games have tremendously larger ability sets than the classes in Mass Effect.  Having a global cooldown system in ME works fine because most classes only have a few abilities at their disposal, whereas in WoW, each class has to manage many more abilities.

[phordicus]

it depends on difficulty. the usefulness of many biotics is gimped on Insanity and you don't notice cooldowns as much since you're spending so much time stripping defenses. lower than Hardcore and it's a different story.

[themastakillah]

the only bad thing in my opinion - the medigel cooldown - i dont think was a good idea since the medigel is the best(and fastest) way to restore ure health or/and shields without losing time behind cover, but once u use it u have to wait for the cooldown of biotic/tech powers. that doesnt make too much sense to me. anyway i like the me2 system better.

[sammcl]

arcelonious wrote...

The cooldown system in WoW is necessary because the classes in those games have tremendously larger ability sets than the classes in Mass Effect.  Having a global cooldown system in ME works fine because most classes only have a few abilities at their disposal, whereas in WoW, each class has to manage many more abilities.

I dunno that you'd need a larger number of abilities in order for a local/global CD system to work better than global only. I can't speak for everyone, but I loved the barrier using Vanguard in ME1, it makes me sad that the combat system changed barrier to "locks out all useful abilities for 12 seconds."

If a local/global system was used it could be a 30 second duration on a 45 second cooldown, with a 3 second global cooldown. It would actually make it a good "oh man, I just charged and 4 more mercs came through the doors" survival ability.

There's a problem with the Infiltrator's cloak too, reave is way more useful on anything but a boss because the targets don't all hide when you use it, it strips defenses and it incapacitates for a few seconds. Would be nice if the class's defining ability got a little more use but it gets sidelined because the GCD is better utilised with reave or incinerate.

So yes, the current global only system works fine, but local/global would work even better.

[Heart Collector]

I like the global cooldown system as it adds more to the tactical value and timely use of each power, thus making them more special, they stand out more, so to speak. Also, it encourages me to actively use my squadmates and think more tactically.

However, I do agree on separate cooldowns for tech/biotic/"combat" cooldowns. It makes sense, and would make "hybrid" classes stand out in that respect, and reinforce their versatility. And of course, the "pure" classes specialization would make up for that lack of flexibility.

[Varenus Luckmann]

binaryemperor wrote...
I have mixed feelings on the global cooldown system in ME2.  I like that the fast, global cooldowns correlate better with the fast paced, cover based action system in ME2, and it does somewhat contribute to the Canon of some of the tech abilities and biotic abilities, but I kind of prefer the local cooldowns like in ME1.  Just increase the cooldown time to an extent and separate them out. There are some abilities that I would use more often if it did not prevent me from using a more potent ability.

For example, I never use shockwave because it has a longer cooldown and it prevents me from using something more useful like Pull or Reave, but if I was able to throw out a shockwave and then jump up and Reave the enemies while they are busy recovering from stumbling, it would be a better combo. The longer recharges prevent me from spamming the combo, but It could allow me to think about what abilites I should use while not excluding others entirely.

Other thoughts?

I don't really have anything to add. I think you're spot-on. I never felt that I "had to choose" or that it was ever a difficulty decision to decide what power to use in ME2. I used the most powerful one. Over and over again. And again. And again.

Then once in a blue moon, I used some other things, for specific effects, or just because I was bored.

Like you're saying, I just never found myself using certain abilities that could've been good and definately could've been cool, but they just were never optimal to be used on average.

Local cooldowns is definately the way to go, for dynamic gameplay.

[padaE]

I like it.

.

The combat in ME2 is better than the

[Lord_Tirian]

They succeeded with such a system in Dragon Age, I'm sure they could pull it off for ME3.

Of course, there, they used a mana system to avoid spamming too much (and mana recovery abilities). I'm not sure whether I'd want to see a mana system in ME3.

Note: By mana, I mean mana and stamina.

[Nolenthar]

Global cooldown illustrates globally ME2. Simpler, really simpler (in its mechanism) Strategic ? not that much actually, as you don't have to switch between your power and looking for the best combination.
As they succeed with Dragon Age, I don't see why they couldn't with ME2.
Local cooldown is the best, for sure.

Modifié par Nolenthar, 06 avril 2010 - 11:39 .

[OniGanon]

I don't quite understand how some of you guys think 'spam the best ability you have over and over again' is more tactical than the ME1 system.

Of course, there, they used a mana system to
avoid spamming too much (and mana recovery abilities). I'm not sure
whether I'd want to see a mana system in ME3.

I would argue that the mana system in DAO is more to limit toggle abilities and the combination of multiple toggles with casting. For normal casting, mana isn't much of a limit. Chug a pot every few casts, big deal.

Modifié par OniGanon, 06 avril 2010 - 11:49 .

[Varenus Luckmann]

To avoid complete ability-spam, all you need to do is up the recharge times, which would force you to choose what ability to use at what time, whilst maintaining ability diversification. I really don't see how the current system is in any way strategic or tactical, since you will end up using the same ability over and over again the vast majority of the time, because there are rarely, if ever, benefits in waiting with using said ability, as opposed to how it could be useful in a diversified system (since you'd be less dependant on THAT ability cooling down).