54 réponses à ce sujet

[Akinra]

camirish1 wrote...

I made a post about this but it didn't catch on.  I will repost it here, was concerning combining the global with the individual cooldowns:

Since the ME2 developers were willing to steal learn
from other companies about how to make better shooter mechanics, they
should steal use ideas from World of Warcraft (and
other MMOs) about combining Global and Individual cooldowns for
abilities. 

So for anyone that doesn't know, in WoW, when you
use any ability, it causes 2 different cooldowns to occur.  The first
one is a 1.5 second global cooldown where you cannot use any of your
abilities; the second is a cooldown for the ability that was used, which
is different for each ability.

For an idea about how this will
work in ME, I will use a vanguard with Barrier and assume a 2 second
global cooldown is in place.

So at the start of a fight, I use
Barrier and a 2 second global cooldown occurs.  At the end of these 2
seconds, I can now Charge but I can't use Barrier again for another 10
seconds.   After I charge, another 2 second global CD occurs after which
I can't use Charge again for another 4 seconds or Barrier for another 8
seconds, BUT I can use Pull.

So in the end, I was able to use a
better variation of abilities but was still limited on how much I can
use them.  This is probably more a suggestion for ME3 since this would
probably make encounters way too easy now, but it would prevent players
from being pigionholed into only using 1 or 2 powers and ignoring the
rest.

This is an excelent idea.

[The Spamming Troll part 2]

i dont like global cooldowns. i like the quick paced gameplay having only one timer to watch is nice, but i dont like being locked out of abilities for so long. theres alot better ideas in this thread with what bioware should have tried.



id really like to see more hotkeys for the Xbox. id like to map more buttons to my abilites, rather then just the 3 available. i wouls have thought with global cooldown, this would have been a no brainer having alot of hotkeys so you dont have to open the power wheel so much.

[binaryemperor]

Lord_Tirian wrote...

ZeppMan217 wrote...

Makes sense for tech abilities but for biotic...

Also makes sense: You just pushed a who-knows-how-much energy through your bio-amp. Depending on the amount of stuff you just squeezed through, you have to give your neural system and the amps a chance to recuperate to avoid damage.

In fact, from a in-universe point of view, global cool downs make sense for most abilities, since you have only *one* omni-tool and only *one* brain/bio-amp all your abilities go through.

Gameplay-wise, I like the global cooldowns, they avoid front-loaded spamming of abilities, keep the pace and gel nicely with the cover system. It's not a perfect system, but a lot better than in ME1.

However, I do see potential for improvement, like abilities that interact with your cooldown (e.g. biotics could have a 10% change that the use of a power has no cooldown at all, thus allowing for occasional combo - would also reward paying attention to your cooldowns to spot these opportunities) or abilities that have an individual cooldown (that would be a good way to give soldiers/gun special abilities a little bit of unique feel and flair, by introducing things like concussive shot-style boosts that work on individual cooldown).

Yeah, I imagined that Biotic, Tech, and Weapon abilities would have separate cooldown pools.

[Iosev]

Even if Biotic, Tech, and Combat abilities had separate cooldown pools, it still would have the potential of trivializing encounters for some classes. For instance, a vanguard is already quite powerful in ME 2, and giving them access to abilities immediately after a charge would take away the risk involved when charging. A vanguard can already replenish their shield with charge to keep himself or herself alive, and allowing them to use say fortification or geth shield in between charges would just be ridiculous. I enjoy the high-risk, high-reward style of play that the current vanguard offers, and I fear that allowing abilities to have their own cooldowns would take out the risk involved with their playstyle, which wouldn't be fun at all.
Individual cooldowns of abilities would also place more emphasis on ability usage, which I think would ultimately take away from the shooting and cover system (since you have more access to your abilities, in turn you will be using them more often, and shooting less). Having the ability to use more abilities might seem fine on a PC (where you can bind more abilities on the keyboard), but for Xbox 360 players, it would merely increase the amount of time they had to use the pause menu.
I personally like the current system; emphasis is placed on real-time combat, with abilities there to facilitate that combat for the most part. I'm not saying that a system based on individual cooldowns couldn't work, but it would require a vast re-haul of the current abilities in order to make the system balanced, and it would inevitably place less emphasis on shooting and cover, and more about activating abilities.

Modifié par arcelonious, 06 avril 2010 - 06:51 .

[tonnactus]

[quote]Lord_Tirian wrote...

[quote]ZeppMan217 wrote...


In fact, from a in-universe point of view, global cool downs make sense for most abilities, since you have only *one* omni-tool and only *one* brain/bio-amp all your abilities go through.
 

[/quote]

From an in universe point of view, skarr and gilian could lift tanks.In Mass Effect, a lot of biotic abilities dont work like intended,when enemies are "protected".

[tonnactus]

arcelonious wrote...

Even if Biotic, Tech, and Combat abilities had separate cooldown pools, it still would have the potential of trivializing encounters for some classes. For instance, a vanguard is already quite powerful in ME 2, and giving them access to abilities immediately after a charge would take away the risk involved when charging. A vanguard can already replenish their shield with charge to keep himself or herself alive, and allowing them to use say fortification or geth shield in between charges would just be ridiculous. I enjoy the high-risk, high-reward style of play that the current vanguard offers, and I fear that allowing abilities to have their own cooldowns would take out the risk involved with their playstyle, which wouldn't be fun at all.

Dont like it? Dont use it.

[cxensign]

It's not a very sophisticated system.  Mostly it feels designed to be foolproof for their developers, to force abilities to be suplemental to gunplay.  It's a success in that regard.  There are much better things they could do with cooldowns however.

sammcl wrote...

Should use the same cooldown system as WoW, that game's popular for a reason.

The cooldown system has absolutely nothing to do with why that game is popular.

Modifié par cxensign, 06 avril 2010 - 11:43 .

[New Messages]

Well, the current cooldown system is much better than the ME1 one, and this actually brings some extra strategy for all classes (should I try to kill that enemy with my powers before he reaches me, or should I start running for a more distant cover and use a shield boost to try to get a few more seconds to live?)
It DOES work better to some classes than to others, though: As an enginner, I found myself using a nice balance of incinerate, combat drone, and dominate (tali was my AI hacker, and I only need one main AI hacker to cause trouble against synthetics. Shepard had some basic AI hacking in case I needed it, though), and as a sentinel you could confortably use all your other powers while your armor was on (unless you play as a "suicidal sentinel" and rely on rushing to the enemy's face, stunning them once they get rid of your armor, and boosting your armor again while you run for cover). At the same time, some classes end up shunning every technique that is not their main one (vanguard comes to mind, though I think charge would be the worst technique ever if you couldn't use it again shortly after the last time you use it, and way too overpowered overpowered if you could charge, pull, and charge again in a very small ammount of time).

Modifié par New Messages, 06 avril 2010 - 11:58 .

[sammcl]

cxensign wrote...

sammcl wrote...

Should use the same cooldown system as WoW, that game's popular for a reason.

The cooldown system has absolutely nothing to do with why that game is popular.

In a way you're right, there's no one thing that makes WoW so popular. One of the major reasons is it's accessibility though. The easy to learn, hard to master aspect, the combat system contributes to that accessibility.

edit: removed "the the" error : /

Modifié par sammcl, 07 avril 2010 - 01:27 .

[SmilingMirror]

Popular doesn't equal good.

I would like it if tech had individual cooldowns and biotic powers had one big group cooldown. More flavor and mechanically it would make them different.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 07 avril 2010 - 01:39 .

[cxensign]

sammcl wrote...

In a way you're right, there's no one thing that makes WoW so popular. One of the major reasons is it's accessibility though. The easy to learn, hard to master aspect, the combat system contributes to that accessibility.

edit: removed "the the" error : /

I don't think their ability system is very good to be honest, it has awful gameplay - it's more in that old Everquest vein of giving people 50 powers because your players are accumulators, instead of restricting the number and making it play well. WoW, like most all Blizzard games, is most remarkable for how unremarkable they are; what they do well is attention to detail and avoiding any glaring flaws.  They do a good job on accessibility in general; MMOs are supposed to be very accessible, and WoW isn't an exception in that regard; the gameplay is social and carrot-on-a-stick, not difficulty.

Outside of the arena it's a trivially easy game to master to be honest; and arena isn't accessible or easy to learn.  That's a generic problem for most PvP genres though (outside of FPS/fighters) so I can't really hold that against them.

Modifié par cxensign, 07 avril 2010 - 03:32 .

[Xeranx]

I don't know how many would agree with this, but I think the cooldowns should differ depending on how they're used. For instance (and I could be wrong): If I am firing a pistol I should be able to immediately move into pistol whipping the same individual or another individual. However, if I pistol whip someone first it should take a second for me to get my sights back on my target.



So, my thinking is if I were to use biotics before tech then it should take half to a quarter of the biotic recharge for me to use tech (whichever's faster). If I were to use tech then I should be able to use biotics immediately after.

[Noble 1]

It works for Biotics I suppose, because they only have so mucch Dark Energy to use before it must "Refill?"

[Randir076]

It should be renamed to personal cooldowns, i don't think that the world stops using abilities because i fire a concussive shot or use a tech drone...that's just silly.

[Vardel]

I would prefer a cooldown for each power. The global cooldown prevents Biotics from being as powerful as they should be.

[TheBellTolls4Me]

Biotics: Global

Tech: Individual

Combat: Too few to matter



But seriously, I'd like there to be a greater separation as far as Techs and Biotics are concerned. Changing techs to have individual cool downs would do that nicely.



I don't like global cool downs in the least. There are countless times that not having global cool downs could've saved me. It just seems too frustrating. I'd rather use powers too little than too often. The first one was my problem in the original mass effect.

[Inferno Sock]

Tech: individual with a slightly increased cooldown time

Biotics: Shields and armor dont stop them but has a shared cooldown

Combat: Individual with normal cooldown

[NorrYtt]

ME2 has many good things going for it:

• Simple!
• Encourages you to shoot your gun during cooldowns.
• Minimizes simultaneous crazy effects on the screen (could be a performance/bug issue).
• Still gives you a "combo" system that's up to three abilities in tandem - you + teammate1 + teammate2. Causes you to "like" a particular teammate more because you can't do the cool Pull + Warp trick all by yourself.

I think ME2 is fine.

Note that "power level" has nothing to do with this - Charge gives you full shields as a secondary effect because global cooldown gameplay requires it. With a mana system or local cooldowns, you'd be required to manually first Barrier yourself then second Charge. Charge would "be more powerful" - we should assume BioWare would rebalance everything.

If BioWare makes a crazier system for ME3, I hope to see stuff like the Adept carry zero guns so that classes have remarkably different gameplay (cloak + sniping / incinerate spam from cover / charge + melee / assault rifle strafing).

Modifié par NorrYtt, 07 avril 2010 - 12:11 .

[Akinra]

I do agree the ME2 system is better than the ME1 system. In a sense it's more 'realisitc'. A biotic casting a power would need to recover before casting any other biotic power. But I think it could still be improved. Biotics should have their own cooldown, tech have their own cooldown. There's no reason why the cooldown after using overload should also apply to a biotic power or vice versa.

Modifié par Akinra, 07 avril 2010 - 03:26 .

[Kronner]

Global cooldown is the only way to go (unless BW GREATLY improves AI, and I highly doubt that). Otherwise the combat will be a complete joke, like in ME1.

[SparksX]

Oh I thought this topic was about climate change :S

[cruc1al]

SparksX wrote...

Oh I thought this topic was about climate change :S

the topic should've been "Your opinion of the global warm ups"

[Akinra]

Climate change is a myth

[camirish1]

After playing with Kasumi for awhile, I like the idea of having an ability that rewards you with a faster cooldown when you kill something with it.

[Gorthaticus]

I like what they did with me2, but I still see room for improvement. They have 2 games out now,blending the two styles or coming up with something else is something I'm hoping for in 3.