120 réponses à ce sujet

[jklinders]

DarthRevan4life wrote...

jklinders wrote...

shep82 wrote...

DarthRevan4life wrote...

Was no one paying attention to what EDI says after you destroy the derelect Reaper? She could not anticipate how Reaper techology would react when installed into the Normandy's systems. So as a precautionary move all essential personel were evacuated from the ship. Not sure how people claim this to be a plot hole as it should be common sense.

Agreed but there is the problem. Common sense no longer exists in the common world.

Actually common sense would have been to install the IFF near the citedal or some major Alliance facility like Arcturus station so that if something went wrong there would be help nearby. Nope, can't do that now can we, it has to be in interstellar space lightyears from nowhere just after finishing legions quest in my case. I would think that being able to produce a collector ship right near the Citedal would be a useful piece of evidence fo rthe council.

If common sense REALLY needs to be brought into this debate a far more controlled environment than the Normandy's computers would be ideal. What we have instead is lazy writing.

Actually logically that makes zero sense.  Not because you wouldn't want to take precautions but because the fact you had no way to know what would happen.  My point is why would you endanger say the Citadel, any Alliance/Council ship(s) when you can take the same risk but only putting one ship in danger?  Installing the Reaper IFF near any strategic outpost/fleet is extremely bad tactics.  Do what you can while minimalizing all potential risks and that's what they did when EDI only left non-essential personel on board the Normandy while the squad left to mimimize further risks. 

Oh really? Since as of ME2 the only real action being taken against the primary threat is being taken by the Normandy crew it is absolutely essential to keep that ship safe. Endangering the one ship and crew working to end the threat with no help in sight is not just wrong, it is extra strength stupid. Why even activate it on the Normandy's computers in the first place? How about setting up a mock up on some POS asteroid with the Normandy nearby but hidden in case of a trap?

Anything but activating a dangerous piece of unknown tech on the one vital ship you have that can complete the mission. No amount of rationalization can justify the circumstances in which that device is activated. You are welcome to keep trying though.

[jklinders]

Nizzemancer wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

jklinders wrote...

shep82 wrote...

DarthRevan4life wrote...

Was no one paying attention to what EDI says after you destroy the derelect Reaper? She could not anticipate how Reaper techology would react when installed into the Normandy's systems. So as a precautionary move all essential personel were evacuated from the ship. Not sure how people claim this to be a plot hole as it should be common sense.

Agreed but there is the problem. Common sense no longer exists in the common world.

Actually common sense would have been to install the IFF near the citedal or some major Alliance facility like Arcturus station so that if something went wrong there would be help nearby. Nope, can't do that now can we, it has to be in interstellar space lightyears from nowhere just after finishing legions quest in my case. I would think that being able to produce a collector ship right near the Citedal would be a useful piece of evidence fo rthe council.

If common sense REALLY needs to be brought into this debate a far more controlled environment than the Normandy's computers would be ideal. What we have instead is lazy writing.

Yes, turn on the IFF of a reaper near the citadel or alliance base. If they did that then the collectors very well could have unleashed their swarms on either the alliance base or the citadel, taking every human there and probably killing anyone else. The way they did it only the normandy was at risk in case the Reaper IFF was yet another trap which it was.

Being able to produce a collector ship near the citadel would not be a good idea since their main cannon ripped through the shields of one of the most advanced warships of its time. Cruisers might have been able to destroy it with thalanx cannons but not before it wiped out several lesser ships/ attacked the citadel. Bringing it to an alliance base would be even worse since the base wouldn't have been on full alert what it would take for them to successfully repel a collector attack and that would have filled many more pods.

unlike collector vessels the citadel fleets ships are sealed, pressurized and compartionalized, sending swarms of insects wouldn't have helped them in a standup fight. There's a reason they are being very covert and avoiding all out engagements, and since ME1 the citadel is the most fortified place in the galaxy. The collector cruiser has one forward facing main gun, basicly all they have to do is flank it and fly circles around it while engaging it, or send in their fighters.

And while they don't know exactly what could happen they know that it's an IFF and as such a transponder constantly sending signals and broadcasting it's location, you don't have to be a genious to see the obvious trap, if the collectors really wanted to stop shepard they could have just:
1. blown up the ship while it was defenseless
2. blown up the dead reaper and the IFF so Shep couldn't go through the relay
3. board the ship and disable it with explosives to the engines or ezoo core.

Face it: the plothole is stupid.

Thank you. I love Bioware's storytelling but the defensiveness around this part of the story trhat I am seeing here is borderline ridiculous. The thanix cannons on the Normandy basically give it cruiser level attack power. So 2 or three turian or Alliance cruisers could rip that collector  ship apart in seconds. I would love to see how seeker swarms could get into ships or stations sealed agauinst a vacuum.

Please bad writing apologists, explain why it is even remotely smart to undertake a very dangerous activation of unsafe tech in you only ship's primary systems with no plan B. I will shut up if you can give me an answer but not before. Oh and sending all of your combat specialists off the ship during this time does not constitute a plan b.

[Nizzemancer]

DarthRevan4life wrote...

@ Nizzemancer - sorry can't quote as I'm on my iPhone. Your forgetting a few things:
1. They did blow up the Normandy once and we saw how that worked out.
2. The citadel isn't enclosed unless the arms are sealed so hypothetically the swarms could potentially get inside.
3. The Collectors weren't around when Shepherd boarded the Reaper IFF so there goes that option.

Although we know what a transponder is who is to say that the Reaper IFF couldn't transmit a signal to disable a ship because isn't that what basically happened when Shepherd boarded the Collector ship the first time? My point is you go into a situation always thinking worst case scenario and activating the IFF isolated makes the most strategic sense given the enemy we are facing.

I'm not forgetting anything.

1. That's why we shouldn't be activating a transponder out in nowhere, and the collector cruiser can't stand up to the citadel defenses (FLEET).
2. It wouldn't get near the citadel in the first place because every cruiser and dreadnaught in the system would kill it dead before it could get near the citadel, and I'd like to point out that the "flies" still wouldn't be able to get into the pressurized compartments of the citadel even if it were open, get the point allready, the station and ships around it are sealed, nothing gets in unless there's a hull-breach, and even then a hull breach would seal that part of the ship off because, you know, vacuum is bad for your lungs.
3. What option are you talking about? The ones I listed referring to what the Collectors could have done to autowin? Because yeah, those options would suck for any non-reaper/collector.

And no you are incorrect, the most tactically sound option is to install the IFF in a controlled environment, not in random space with no backup, everything hinges on the Normandy surviving, nobody else except anderson even believes the Reapers are real or they deny what they have seen, if the collectors had made a tactical decision instead of a strategic one and blown up the normandy instead of boarding it everything would have been lost, as hudson would have said: "That's it man, game over man, game over! What the f*** are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?".

Edit: and you know the Thanix gun you can install on the normandy? Yeah, that's turian reverse engineering of sovereigns weapons, their cruisers have it too according to the codex, ergo; if the collector ship shows it's ugly face near the citadel it'll have about 2 seconds to abandon ship.

Now this time: Comprehend before answering.

Modifié par Nizzemancer, 07 avril 2010 - 07:55 .

[Valmy]

blooddove6 wrote...
How they build Shepard up from the first game to this one, and up to this point in the story, there is next to no way Shepard would say, “Hey guys lets go on some random shuttle ride while the non-combatant crew members install that very dangerous tech, which can not possibly cause a dangerous situation during our absence.” But guess what, surprise, surprise, something did happen.

It actually makes sense if you are actually going down to a planet for a mission.

If you have everything completed by this point then yeah it makes no sense.

Sometimes you just need to stop worrying and learn to love the plot holes.

[kraidy1117]

It makes sence if you are on your way to a mission and this happens, however if you where me and did everything before the IFF and did Legions mission then yes, it is stupid because Shepard says we will take the shuttle for this trip, uh what trip? I did all the side missions and stuff. My thought is they all went to Afterlife, got some drinks and a couple of dances.

[Whitering]

People, it was not a plot hole, it was an homage to Star Trek where the entire command staff constantly leaves the ship for away missions...wow, you guys are clueless.



Did it have a place in a serious game...depends on how serious you think during the game. If you don't see the great humor in every store in the Citadel having the "I'm Commander Sheppard and this is my favorite store on the Citadel" intro then you won't think the command staff leaving was funny, but I did.

[Sago_mulch]

blooddove6 wrote...

I forgot the fact that Shepard left the NORMANDY FOR HIS NEXT MISSION(took the shuttle) SO IN CASE IF THE IFF DID SCREW UP THE SHIP, SHEPARD WOULDN'T DIE.

I ALSO DIDN'T READ THE POST FULL.

TL;DR

[Fatrobo]

Whitering wrote...

People, it was not a plot hole, it was an homage to Star Trek where the entire command staff constantly leaves the ship for away missions...wow, you guys are clueless.

Did it have a place in a serious game...depends on how serious you think during the game. If you don't see the great humor in every store in the Citadel having the "I'm Commander Sheppard and this is my favorite store on the Citadel" intro then you won't think the command staff leaving was funny, but I did.

Hilarious inisight. Plausible writer homage.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Fatrobo wrote...

Whitering wrote...

People, it was not a plot hole, it was an homage to Star Trek where the entire command staff constantly leaves the ship for away missions...wow, you guys are clueless.

Did it have a place in a serious game...depends on how serious you think during the game. If you don't see the great humor in every store in the Citadel having the "I'm Commander Sheppard and this is my favorite store on the Citadel" intro then you won't think the command staff leaving was funny, but I did.

Hilarious inisight. Plausible writer homage.

Also the fact that almost everyone here is using hindsight or assumptions based on hindsight of Thanaix Cannons or whatever else etc.  For all you know Thanaix cannons could be throwing a spidwad at a wall at them.

sorry remote location is the only way to go considering EDI did say that she had no clue what would happen. So thus, they got everyone off. The ship could implode or all the comparments venliatate, talk about all your eggs in one basket for those that wanted to stay aboard. 

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 07 avril 2010 - 08:56 .

[jklinders]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Fatrobo wrote...

Whitering wrote...

People, it was not a plot hole, it was an homage to Star Trek where the entire command staff constantly leaves the ship for away missions...wow, you guys are clueless.

Did it have a place in a serious game...depends on how serious you think during the game. If you don't see the great humor in every store in the Citadel having the "I'm Commander Sheppard and this is my favorite store on the Citadel" intro then you won't think the command staff leaving was funny, but I did.

Hilarious inisight. Plausible writer homage.

Also the fact that almost everyone here is using hindsight or assumptions based on hindsight of Thanaix Cannons or whatever else etc.  For all you know Thanaix cannons could be throwing a spidwad at a wall at them.

sorry remote location is the only way to go considering EDI did say that she had no clue what would happen. So thus, they got everyone off. The ship could implode or all the comparments venliatate, talk about all your eggs in one basket for those that wanted to stay aboard. 

So why not set up a bank of computers similar to the Normandy's in a lab, some where out of the way and test it on something that is not important first? Honestly, if you accept that it is too dangerous to do near the Citedal or Arcturus, then it is too dangerous to do on the Normandy at all. We can't have it both ways. No matter how you look at it, testing the IFF as shown in game is extra strength stupid.Smart would have been going one of 2 ways depending on risk.

1.Too dangerous to be near anything, so use something anything other than your only ship's systems to test it in.
or
2. it is not too dangerous to be near anything, but dangerous enough to warrent caution, so it is best to be close to help if needed.

This is not the answer that will make me shut up.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

jklinders wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...


Also the fact that almost everyone here is using hindsight or assumptions based on hindsight of Thanaix Cannons or whatever else etc.  For all you know Thanaix cannons could be throwing a spidwad at a wall at them.

sorry remote location is the only way to go considering EDI did say that she had no clue what would happen. So thus, they got everyone off. The ship could implode or all the comparments venliatate, talk about all your eggs in one basket for those that wanted to stay aboard. 

So why not set up a bank of computers similar to the Normandy's in a lab, some where out of the way and test it on something that is not important first? Honestly, if you accept that it is too dangerous to do near the Citedal or Arcturus, then it is too dangerous to do on the Normandy at all. We can't have it both ways. No matter how you look at it, testing the IFF as shown in game is extra strength stupid.Smart would have been going one of 2 ways depending on risk.

1.Too dangerous to be near anything, so use something anything other than your only ship's systems to test it in.
or
2. it is not too dangerous to be near anything, but dangerous enough to warrent caution, so it is best to be close to help if needed.

This is not the answer that will make me shut up.

Yes that is what  I would have done as well, but that wasn't an option in the game. There could be techinally specifications required, like actually needing an pair of engines or something that you can't simulate properly. Hell they could have just been rushing to get it done to not think it out properly which is something I am more than likely thinking is the case. Sheppard is on an dead line afterall.

Who knows.... I would love to say that is an good idea but we don't know the techinal ramifications of what an closed-network system would do. It could theortically break out accidently if someone didn't make sure all the connections were dis-connected.

The other possiblity is the fact that while you may have done this or that, iregardless, in the game, you did not do that. We can only guess at the reasons why the canon sheppard did this cause of the nature of the game doesn't let us privy to that but my guess is, if you summon an bunch of reapers or fleet of collector ships suddenly to your spot, you don't immediately jeporidize the entire galaxy etc.

It could be as simple as - Sheppard followed EDI's advice and left the techinal details to joker and EDI thinking that they could handle it. Captains got other things on their minds, not just if said technology is dangerous. One could fault joker and EDI, but then one could say they simply never thought of it. That would work out as well, it did not occur to any of them to do it like this or that. You may have done it this or that, but joker and EDI did it this way instead and did not think about doing it this way.

[blooddove6]

Modifié par blooddove6, 07 avril 2010 - 10:39 .

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

blooddove6 wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Fatrobo wrote...

Whitering wrote...

People, it was not a plot hole, it was an homage to Star Trek where the entire command staff constantly leaves the ship for away missions...wow, you guys are clueless.

Did it have a place in a serious game...depends on how serious you think during the game. If you don't see the great humor in every store in the Citadel having the "I'm Commander Sheppard and this is my favorite store on the Citadel" intro then you won't think the command staff leaving was funny, but I did.

Hilarious inisight. Plausible writer homage.

Also the fact that almost everyone here is using hindsight or assumptions based on hindsight of Thanaix Cannons or whatever else etc.  For all you know Thanaix cannons could be throwing a spidwad at a wall at them.

sorry remote location is the only way to go considering EDI did say that she had no clue what would happen. So thus, they got everyone off. The ship could implode or all the comparments venliatate, talk about all your eggs in one basket for those that wanted to stay aboard. 

As soon as it was indicated, that Shepard, and the heavy hitters were leaving the ship in the same system after legion's mission as they were installing the IFF I knew that something horrible was going to take place. When the collectors showed up, I said to myself I knew that would happen, you Shepard are a moron, I was expecting something close to it, so there was no hindsight for me.

Good story writing needs not ask anything of reader, because if it has to do that then the writing has already failed the funtamentals, and by that action alone has indicated that it is poorly written

Good story writing is not going to catch everyone my friend. I expected most likely something bad to happen, but nothing on that scale of summoning an collector ship and capturing the entire crew. Mostly an "*smoking sound* Aghhh we fried it!". I expected an quest to go find an replacement or it to start an quest.

Either way, some say the sword of truth series or hell better example, harry potter is a poorly written book series but for other people it was extremely effective. It does depend on the person after all, as I am sure that most people did not see it coming, much like the collectors being Prothrean arc etc.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 07 avril 2010 - 10:32 .

[blooddove6]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Fatrobo wrote...

Whitering wrote...



People, it was not a plot hole, it was an homage to Star Trek where the entire command staff constantly leaves the ship for away missions...wow, you guys are clueless.



Did it have a place in a serious game...depends on how serious you think during the game. If you don't see the great humor in every store in the Citadel having the "I'm Commander Sheppard and this is my favorite store on the Citadel" intro then you won't think the command staff leaving was funny, but I did.

Hilarious inisight. Plausible writer homage.

Also the fact that almost everyone here is using hindsight or assumptions based on hindsight of Thanaix Cannons or whatever else etc. For all you know Thanaix cannons could be throwing a spidwad at a wall at them.



sorry remote location is the only way to go considering EDI did say that she had no clue what would happen. So thus, they got everyone off. The ship could implode or all the comparments venliatate, talk about all your eggs in one basket for those that wanted to stay aboard.

As soon as it was indicated, that Shepard, and the heavy hitters were leaving the ship in the same system after legion's mission as they were installing the IFF I knew that something horrible was going to take place. When the collectors showed up, I said to myself I knew that would happen, you Shepard are a moron, I was expecting something close to it, so there was no hindsight for me.



If they wanted that mission with joker to take place why not have a dormant program hidden within the code of IFF, so after a successful installation, leaving secure space, and when Shepard and squad leave on a mission, that is when the collectors ambush the Normady

Valmy wrote...

blooddove6 wrote...

How they build Shepard up from the first game to this one, and up to this point in the story, there is next to no way Shepard would say, “Hey guys lets go on some random shuttle ride while the non-combatant crew members install that very dangerous tech, which can not possibly cause a dangerous situation during our absence.” But guess what, surprise, surprise, something did happen.

It actually makes sense if you are actually going down to a planet for a mission.



If you have everything completed by this point then yeah it makes no sense.



Sometimes you just need to stop worrying and learn to love the plot holes.

Good story writing needs not ask anything of reader, because if it has to do that then the writing has already failed the fundamentals, and by that action alone has indicated that it is poorly written

[srzyski89]

I don't get why the Collectors just didn't destroy your ship all over again. They didn't seem to hesistate before. Figured they gain more by pretty much crippling your mission than what they would from taking some of your meager crew to be processed.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

blooddove6 wrote...

As soon as it was indicated, that Shepard, and the heavy hitters were leaving the ship in the same system after legion's mission as they were installing the IFF I knew that something horrible was going to take place. When the collectors showed up, I said to myself I knew that would happen, you Shepard are a moron, I was expecting something close to it, so there was no hindsight for me.

If they wanted that mission with joker to take place why not have a dormant program hidden within the code of IFF, so after a successful installation, leaving secure space, and when Shepard and squad leave on a mission, that is when the collectors ambush the Normady

Yes well obviously some must have suspected that something was going to go wrong... sheppard's path to hero-ship isn't exactly an bed of roses and an walk down the golden road. And techinally that is exactly what happened. Sheppard left on the mission, and boom the collectors hit.

Secondly, There is no way the reapers would expect after 37 million years that somehow an person would merge their tech with their ship to go into the omega 4 relay. Transponder giving away an location that previously did not exist before is easier to do and doesn't require 37 million years of prior game knowledge to know some silly humans and an AI would hook it up. I am guessing your more of complaining of the execution of the sequence then this particalar plot then anything else.

blooddove6 wrote...
Good story writing needs not ask anything of reader, because if it has to do that then the writing has already failed the fundamentals, and by that action alone has indicated that it is poorly written

Good Story writing also means knowing that probably 20% of the readers will be able to see through your story and the hidden twists right away. You can't expect to get them all. That is unrealistic and stupid expectation. You managed to be part of that 20%, which sucks but otherwise the 80% other people didn't see it coming.

Btw, yeah I made that percentage up, but it's my rough guess at how many readers will instantly see through the plot of any story. I saw thru the plot line of harry potter the entire way while The Sword of Truth Series had me at every twist and story arc.

[jklinders]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

jklinders wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...


Also the fact that almost everyone here is using hindsight or assumptions based on hindsight of Thanaix Cannons or whatever else etc.  For all you know Thanaix cannons could be throwing a spidwad at a wall at them.

sorry remote location is the only way to go considering EDI did say that she had no clue what would happen. So thus, they got everyone off. The ship could implode or all the comparments venliatate, talk about all your eggs in one basket for those that wanted to stay aboard. 

So why not set up a bank of computers similar to the Normandy's in a lab, some where out of the way and test it on something that is not important first? Honestly, if you accept that it is too dangerous to do near the Citedal or Arcturus, then it is too dangerous to do on the Normandy at all. We can't have it both ways. No matter how you look at it, testing the IFF as shown in game is extra strength stupid.Smart would have been going one of 2 ways depending on risk.

1.Too dangerous to be near anything, so use something anything other than your only ship's systems to test it in.
or
2. it is not too dangerous to be near anything, but dangerous enough to warrent caution, so it is best to be close to help if needed.

This is not the answer that will make me shut up.

Yes that is what  I would have done as well, but that wasn't an option in the game. There could be techinally specifications required, like actually needing an pair of engines or something that you can't simulate properly. Hell they could have just been rushing to get it done to not think it out properly which is something I am more than likely thinking is the case. Sheppard is on an dead line afterall.

Who knows.... I would love to say that is an good idea but we don't know the techinal ramifications of what an closed-network system would do. It could theortically break out accidently if someone didn't make sure all the connections were dis-connected.

The other possiblity is the fact that while you may have done this or that, iregardless, in the game, you did not do that. We can only guess at the reasons why the canon sheppard did this cause of the nature of the game doesn't let us privy to that but my guess is, if you summon an bunch of reapers or fleet of collector ships suddenly to your spot, you don't immediately jeporidize the entire galaxy etc.

It could be as simple as - Sheppard followed EDI's advice and left the techinal details to joker and EDI thinking that they could handle it. Captains got other things on their minds, not just if said technology is dangerous. One could fault joker and EDI, but then one could say they simply never thought of it. That would work out as well, it did not occur to any of them to do it like this or that. You may have done it this or that, but joker and EDI did it this way instead and did not think about doing it this way.

OK then test it on a different ship. With the Normandy close by. Being ridiculuosly careful with Reaper tech is not making decisions out of hindsight. it is making decisions based on past events. Bad things happen to people who bugger with reaper tech. Cerberus has other ships. We know this from the end cutscene where Shep dies. Install it in one of them in a remote spot first.

But let us go back to the points i raised but have not yet been addressed. If the IFF is too dangerous to test too close to Alliance or Citedal headquarters why is it safer to test it on the only vessel you have that you can use to complete your mission out in the middle of nowhere?

And if it is not too dangerous, why not test it near  a fleet. This is the common sense test that is being failed here. This is why it bugs me. I know I do not have these options in game, that is not the point. Why it is not not lazy writing that things were laid out as they were is the point.

[archurban]

yeah, I feel the same with you. there are few 'WTF' situation in this game. after defeating collector, exploding the base, some of crews still talk about the last suicidal mission. are they retarded?

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

jklinders wrote...

OK then test it on a different ship. With the Normandy close by. Being ridiculuosly careful with Reaper tech is not making decisions out of hindsight. it is making decisions based on past events. Bad things happen to people who bugger with reaper tech. Cerberus has other ships. We know this from the end cutscene where Shep dies. Install it in one of them in a remote spot first.

But let us go back to the points i raised but have not yet been addressed. If the IFF is too dangerous to test too close to Alliance or Citedal headquarters why is it safer to test it on the only vessel you have that you can use to complete your mission out in the middle of nowhere?

And if it is not too dangerous, why not test it near  a fleet. This is the common sense test that is being failed here. This is why it bugs me. I know I do not have these options in game, that is not the point. Why it is not not lazy writing that things were laid out as they were is the point.

I agree, i wish some options were avaiable, but to be honest, A few hours ago went through an saved game and replayed the event, to be honest, I think it's more of "let's get some quick results" headlong rush into things then anything else. I also think that joker and EDI's overconfidence in installment played an factor into making a decision considering you do order them to double check everything before you leave, but they could easily have throughly convinced you otherwise that nothing could happen.

From my current viewpoint, it looks like it's mostly used to show another side of joker, and his over confidence got everyone taken away is the main point. Sheppard exause... was kindof secondary in that nature. Hell after the mission was done my first play through, I was like "Ah crap, joker better not slip into a coma or Post Tramutic stress dis-order or something. "

Pretty much up to then, joker been the inviciable non tap-dancing pilot he always been with witty lines and doing nothing wrong. Then this happens.

I honestly don't think it's lazy writing as what was happening to sheppard was secondary at that time. S/He goes off on the same mission s/he always done, rountine. That is what sheppard does, simple as that. Joker and Edi were confident that probably nothing would happen, but better safe then sorry so you hop in the shuttle to do X and Y cause you don't wanna wait 8 hours for this thing to installed or however long it takes.

[jklinders]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

jklinders wrote...

OK then test it on a different ship. With the Normandy close by. Being ridiculuosly careful with Reaper tech is not making decisions out of hindsight. it is making decisions based on past events. Bad things happen to people who bugger with reaper tech. Cerberus has other ships. We know this from the end cutscene where Shep dies. Install it in one of them in a remote spot first.

But let us go back to the points i raised but have not yet been addressed. If the IFF is too dangerous to test too close to Alliance or Citedal headquarters why is it safer to test it on the only vessel you have that you can use to complete your mission out in the middle of nowhere?

And if it is not too dangerous, why not test it near  a fleet. This is the common sense test that is being failed here. This is why it bugs me. I know I do not have these options in game, that is not the point. Why it is not not lazy writing that things were laid out as they were is the point.

I agree, i wish some options were avaiable, but to be honest, A few hours ago went through an saved game and replayed the event, to be honest, I think it's more of "let's get some quick results" headlong rush into things then anything else. I also think that joker and EDI's overconfidence in installment played an factor into making a decision considering you do order them to double check everything before you leave, but they could easily have throughly convinced you otherwise that nothing could happen.

From my current viewpoint, it looks like it's mostly used to show another side of joker, and his over confidence got everyone taken away is the main point. Sheppard exause... was kindof secondary in that nature. Hell after the mission was done my first play through, I was like "Ah crap, joker better not slip into a coma or Post Tramutic stress dis-order or something. "

Pretty much up to then, joker been the inviciable non tap-dancing pilot he always been with witty lines and doing nothing wrong. Then this happens.

I honestly don't think it's lazy writing as what was happening to sheppard was secondary at that time. S/He goes off on the same mission s/he always done, rountine. That is what sheppard does, simple as that. Joker and Edi were confident that probably nothing would happen, but better safe then sorry so you hop in the shuttle to do X and Y cause you don't wanna wait 8 hours for this thing to installed or however long it takes.

Well this takes me back to where otherwise really smart characters are acting as if under the influence of an overdose of extra strenght plot based stupidity. A character acting stupid as part of a pattern of behaviour is one thing, but we have a a case of Worf syndrome here. Utterly competent at the job until the writing demands otherwise, then more useless than a bag of hammers made of paper mache.

joker shows a pattern of overconfidence, Hell that is why Shep died. EDI never did though. EDI's confidence was based on a precise assessment of risk facters that were apparently thrown out the window here.

[Srau]

They could simply have scripted it to happen during Legion's loyalty mission :

- You give order to test it then leave to blow up the base / rewrite heretics.
- Meanwhile the ship (moved somewhere safe, not just waiting like a siting duck near the Heretic HQ) is invaded and the rest of group bunker down with some of the crew to fight back invaders and have the collectors focus on them and abduct the rest.
- Player assumes control of Joker ([smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]) and everything goes like in current (minus "but the crew" lines)
- Shep arrives, comforts survivors and mourns casualities among regular crew for drama.
- From there player can choose to start the mission or continue loyalty/dossiers and loose the abducted crew.

Nowhere near good writting, but deffinitely less *WTF !?!* than current.

Modifié par Srau, 08 avril 2010 - 05:11 .