105 réponses à ce sujet

[Axekix]

Going through a new playthrough, it kind of dawned on me with the way she talked about her past that she might have been raped.  I did some searching but couldn't find any posts on the topic so, sorry if this has been covered before.

She prefaces the conversation about Marjolaine by saying she lied about her past because she wasn't ready to talk about what happened to her, and that it might effect "us."  And when she talks about being tortured she simply says they did "terrible things" to make her confess (with very heavy emphasis on "terrible").  Yet she has no physical scars on her body... none that are visible with the default models anyway.

This alone might not mean much, but if you talk to the female Orlesian merchant in Denerim and hear her story, you find out Chevaliers are more or less allowed to rape women at will.  IMO that puts Leliana's convo into a whole different light.

So what do you guys think?  Has this been confirmed/denied before?

[ejoslin]

Even though there are no scars on the bodies in dragon age (Zevran doesn't have any either, though he should), it's pretty obvious Leliana was raped. Probably many times.

[Ashlag]

When I first heard her say that I interpreted it as she was raped. And you make a good point that the Orlesian merchant gives some back story to the Chevaliers, which at least makes the whole situation more plausible.

[RobUnreal]

I actually considered this on my playthroughs, too. Her tone of voice, and choice of words certain suggest some form of mental distress from a traumatic experience.



I guess we can all be sure that Orlais is a ****ed up place. haha

[Herr Uhl]

You think rape doesn't happen to the females (and males) being tortured in Ferelden? It's not usually the well-mannered types that run such establishments, if you catch my drift.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I too understood it that way. But she only talks about this once and it's too hasty to assume anything just from this one sentence imo. I wouldn't be surprised at all if rape was involved however.

[Axekix]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I too understood it that way. But she only talks about this once and it's too hasty to assume anything just from this one sentence imo. I wouldn't be surprised at all if rape was involved however.

Yeah that's the main reason I had some doubt.  She kind of glosses over it and it's never brought up again.  But I think the hints are pretty strong.

[soignee]

ejoslin wrote...

Even though there are no scars on the bodies in dragon age (Zevran doesn't have any either, though he should), it's pretty obvious Leliana was raped. Probably many times.

Yes And it makes me sad. I've no idea how people can harden her during that conversation line, even my duster thug was all IT'S OK LELIANA HERE HAVE A HUG I'M SORRY

[Ashlag]

Axekix wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I too understood it that way. But she only talks about this once and it's too hasty to assume anything just from this one sentence imo. I wouldn't be surprised at all if rape was involved however.

Yeah that's the main reason I had some doubt.  She kind of glosses over it and it's never brought up again.  But I think the hints are pretty strong.

It might have been something like, the writers wanted/wrote that into her backstory, but when actually crafting her dialogue they didn't want to dwell on it because that would both change her character and the interaction with the PC. Also it is a touchy subject and probably something that the writers didn't want to deal with in depth, but had written in as part of her story.

[Herr Uhl]

I don't think people like talking about being raped, that might be a factor, not it being a touchy subject.



This almost borders on when there was a thread disputing whether Shianni was raped or not. Well, the case is certainly more open here though.

[Sarah1281]

It could also explain why, despite being a bard who's hinted at sleeping with people as part of her line of work, she won't sleep with the PC until she loves them. Although that wouldn't explain the Isabela interaction...but she DOES have to be hardened for that to occur.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

I don't think people like talking about being raped, that might be a factor, not it being a touchy subject.

This almost borders on when there was a thread disputing whether Shianni was raped or not. Well, the case is certainly more open here though.

The thing is, Leliana glossed over it too fast and showed only slight emotion (or at least not as much emotion as I would expect from a memory like this). 

Now it could be because she really doesn't want to talk about it or even think about it, so just passed through it very fast. Or because it's been a few years (2?), although I don't think time heals scars like this.

[JasonPogo]

Ashlag wrote...

Axekix wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I too understood it that way. But she only talks about this once and it's too hasty to assume anything just from this one sentence imo. I wouldn't be surprised at all if rape was involved however.

Yeah that's the main reason I had some doubt.  She kind of glosses over it and it's never brought up again.  But I think the hints are pretty strong.

It might have been something like, the writers wanted/wrote that into her backstory, but when actually crafting her dialogue they didn't want to dwell on it because that would both change her character and the interaction with the PC. Also it is a touchy subject and probably something that the writers didn't want to deal with in depth, but had written in as part of her story.

Thats it in a nut shell.   Rape is a heavy thing and is something that they hardly need to go into detail about.  It is the same thing with the elf commoner origin.  Shianni is beat up and raped by the human noble.  But all the NPC don't stand around and talk about it.   They just imply that it happend and then give you an option to tell the King that it happend.

[MutantSpleen]

I had always assumed she was beaten badly and raped by the Chevaliers from the first time I heard her say it.

[TimeLordCat]

This is what makes DAO such a great game you get invested in the characters. For DAA I am hard pressed to come up with which characters I had with me.

[Herr Uhl]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

I don't think people like talking about being raped, that might be a factor, not it being a touchy subject.

This almost borders on when there was a thread disputing whether Shianni was raped or not. Well, the case is certainly more open here though.

The thing is, Leliana glossed over it too fast and showed only slight emotion (or at least not as much emotion as I would expect from a memory like this). 

Now it could be because she really doesn't want to talk about it or even think about it, so just passed through it very fast. Or because it's been a few years (2?), although I don't think time heals scars like this.

The not thinking about it part is most likely, she'd probably had more than enough time to think about it herself.

And I thought it was 4 years.

[soignee]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

[

The thing is, Leliana glossed over it too fast and showed only slight emotion (or at least not as much emotion as I would expect from a memory like this). 

Now it could be because she really doesn't want to talk about it or even think about it, so just passed through it very fast. Or because it's been a few years (2?), although I don't think time heals scars like this.

enlighten me how a rape victim should act and be present themselves. I'd *love* to know. Is there a guidebook, perhaps? Some sort of step by step plan all victims must stick to?

[KnightofPhoenix]

soignee wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

[

The thing is, Leliana glossed over it too fast and showed only slight emotion (or at least not as much emotion as I would expect from a memory like this). 

Now it could be because she really doesn't want to talk about it or even think about it, so just passed through it very fast. Or because it's been a few years (2?), although I don't think time heals scars like this.

enlighten me how a rape victim should act and be present themselves. I'd *love* to know. Is there a guidebook, perhaps? Some sort of step by step plan all victims must stick to?

While I usually appreciate sarcasm, it's really unnecessary here.

All I meant was that she went over it too fast and didn't show that much emotion or a horrified expression and / or tone (which of course can easily be attributed to graphical limitations). Whereas Shiani clearly showed it (of course the environement also helped). 

I am not excluding the possibility that she did so simply because she doesn't want to think about it. In fact, it's very likely. But it's not an established fact and it's left ambigious, which is better.

[Axekix]

^Your Loghain video actually lends credence to this idea as well (nicely done btw). I forgot about his quote mentioning the Chev's raping Fereldan women as well.

I think I'd be more surprised if she hadn't been raped at this point. IMO that puts a very different perspective on her romance, especially the infamous "butterfly eye-lashes" scene. Though I always found that more cute than creepy anyway, personally.  It's quite a bit more touching to me now I think.

Modifié par Axekix, 07 avril 2010 - 02:02 .

[Emerald Melios]

I get the impression she was more hurt by Marjolaine's betrayal.

[Highdragonslayer]

Leliana sucks on X box in combat that deserves to be tortured to death and then to life and tortured again and then after you do that about 50 times you dump in lake calenhad.

[Thalorin1919]

She never exactly says that they were Chevaliers, she just said Orlesian Guards.



In Orlais, the Chevaliers have privledges, so they basically wouldnt get in trouble for raping a woman. While a common guard could get in trouble for something like that I think.



Either way, I'm pretty confident she was raped. Men dont really 'torture' woman the same way they would to men back in those days it seemed, and would probably get more pleasure out of raping her anyway.



My poor Leliana. That must be why there are so many "Dont worry, I will protect you." dialogues for her when playing as a male. She's looking for love and protection, so that something like that would not happen to her again.

[Aisynia]

Axekix wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I too understood it that way. But she only talks about this once and it's too hasty to assume anything just from this one sentence imo. I wouldn't be surprised at all if rape was involved however.

Yeah that's the main reason I had some doubt.  She kind of glosses over it and it's never brought up again.  But I think the hints are pretty strong.

I am a rape victim and I will tell you, if it comes up, I certainly gloss over it. 99% of the time, I have no interest in discussing it, much less remembering it.

[CalJones]

When you meet Cullen in the Circle Tower she says that he has been denied food and water, maybe for days... "I can tell." So that would seem to have been part of her torture.

Whether she was raped or not is inconclusive. It's possible, but any kind of torture is going to be traumatic. She certainly is a little unhinged, and you can argue that running off to the cloister for two years of celibacy (re: banter with Zevran) is a likely reaction to rape. But then she doesn't seem at all freaked out if you bed her.

[asaiasai]

I think it is safe to say that in Medeval societies like DAO is based on, the crime of rape was pretty common. I think both male and female get to share the experience because as some one already posted the dungeons are not run by the kindest of individuals. Dehuminization is a pretty convincing way to exert power over another individual, and inure the perpitrators to thier charges plight.



Asai