105 réponses à ce sujet

[Mirthadrond]

I never got that impression.

Torture generally is pretty terrible, hence why it's called torture.



I suppose they could have raped her, just like they might have sodomized my male pc and alister when we went to prison.

Does it really matter how you are tortured, it's still a horrible thing to experience.

[Emerald Melios]

Thalorin1919 wrote...

My poor Leliana. That must be why there are so many "Dont worry, I will protect you." dialogues for her when playing as a male. She's looking for love and protection, so that something like that would not happen to her again.

Those dialogue choices are also there as female warden.

[Axekix]

Mirthadrond wrote...

I never got that impression.
Torture generally is pretty terrible, hence why it's called torture.

Well, had she simply been physically tortured by conventional means, she should be scarred/crippled, no?  None of her concept art includes scarring afaik, and of course she seems perfectly healthy in game.

Take Bann Sighard's son for instance.  He was tortured briefly in Howe's dungeon and if you free him it's stated at the landsmeet that his legs were badly mutilated.  It seems odd that she would suffer "terrible" torture with no physical signs to show for it.

Considering the Orlesian attitude towards rape in general, and the way she approaches the subject, it seems more probable to me.

[Mystiana]

CalJones wrote...

 But then she doesn't seem at all freaked out if you bed her.

probably because:

1:  it happened a while ago
2:  bedding her was an act of love and tenderness, not violence and hatred

[Addai]

CalJones wrote...

When you meet Cullen in the Circle Tower she says that he has been denied food and water, maybe for days... "I can tell." So that would seem to have been part of her torture.

She may also say this because she used torture in her work as a bard (she will tell you that she "prefers seduction to torture").

I always assumed her captivity included rape, but not sure what gave me that impression.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

Thats why i felt so sorry for her i thought she might have been raped as well and that made me only respect her more everytime im a guy i romance her because out of all the horrible things thats shes endured i like how she finally finds peace being in the strong arms of a warrior that would never let anyone hurt her agian but yes very interesting post im suprised no one has talked about this eather.

[Mirthadrond]

You don't have scar someone to torture them, and rape seems to me to be a poor choice for torture. "if you don't confess we'll rape you again....". After the first time, if she wasn't completely broken, and she is a bard who uses sex as a weapon, would the 2nd or 10th time really make a difference?

I suppose it's possible, but would it get her to confess? I don't think so.

There are plenty of ways to torture someone without leaving obvious signs, and we meet her several years after the event, so the signs that did exist might have healed.



Let's also consider her escape. She used her training to get away.

By that, I presumed she used female persuation to distract/disarm a guard.

Would such technique work on a man who just raped you?



She also has a healthy view on sex, which doesn't seem likely without years of therapy.

Maybe the chantry helped, in this regard??

Regardless, I prefer to think she was subject to conventional torture, and not raped in the process. They wanted information and physical pain and fear of death is the easiest method of getting it.

Rape is humiliating, vile and painful, but not nearly as painful as bamboo sticks under fingernails, or frightening as waterboarding.



Since it's never said; I like to think it didn't happen.

[PSRdirector]

ejoslin wrote...

Even though there are no scars on the bodies in dragon age (Zevran doesn't have any either, though he should), it's pretty obvious Leliana was raped. Probably many times.

I dont think so, there are alot of terrible things you can do besides rape. Like oh kill loved ones and make them eat the flesh of them as the only food. I personally would think that would be more psycologically damadging then any amoutn of rape

[Herr Uhl]

PSRdirector wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Even though there are no scars on the bodies in dragon age (Zevran doesn't have any either, though he should), it's pretty obvious Leliana was raped. Probably many times.

I dont think so, there are alot of terrible things you can do besides rape. Like oh kill loved ones and make them eat the flesh of them as the only food. I personally would think that would be more psycologically damadging then any amoutn of rape

So, since it's not the most horrible thing one could do, it wasn't done? I don't get your logic.

[OrlesianWardenCommander]

I wouldn't know but rape is very painful and alot of foreign countrys use it as a forum of torture. So i think its very possible but its up for debate cause the Orlais seems a very civilized country but alota things happen behind closed doors.

[Herr Uhl]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

I wouldn't know but rape is very painful and alot of foreign countrys use it as a forum of torture. So i think its very possible but its up for debate cause the Orlais seems a very civilized country but alota things happen behind closed doors.

Like the nobility having the right to rape whichever peasant they wish?

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 07 avril 2010 - 04:27 .

[Mirthadrond]

Because they can, that means they all do?



Rape seems like an ineffectual means of torture, used against a seasoned Bard.



Also - given her personality, taking away her soap, dressing her in rags and giving her ugly shoes might have been enough to get her to confess. Just saying is all.

[RazorrX]

She was tortured as a spy and traitor to Orlais. Most likely repeated raping and other nasty things. As to why no scars? Magic.



Rape, Cut, burn, etc. and heal up so she is good for the next day. Rinse and repeat.

[Sarah1281]

Rape seems like an ineffectual means of torture, used against a seasoned Bard.

So because she liked having sex and probably used it in her line of work she wouldn't care if she were raped? I would tend to disagree.

[roundcrow]

Aisynia wrote...

Axekix wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I too understood it that way. But she only talks about this once and it's too hasty to assume anything just from this one sentence imo. I wouldn't be surprised at all if rape was involved however.

Yeah that's the main reason I had some doubt.  She kind of glosses over it and it's never brought up again.  But I think the hints are pretty strong.

I am a rape victim and I will tell you, if it comes up, I certainly gloss over it. 99% of the time, I have no interest in discussing it, much less remembering it.

I've been through quite a few things and I never mention them in conversation.  If it's inevitable, I use a very neutral tone, so Leliana's demeanor in that conversation didn't seem strange to me at all.  There's only so much emotion most conversations can handle, I think.

[Mirthadrond]

I didn't say she wouldn't care, I said it wouldn't break her.



She uses sex as a tool, emotinally disconnecting from the act would be part of that training.

She seduces men to get their guard down so she can kill them.



Rape just wouldn't be that effective on her, and again there are plenty of other horrible things they could do, so as a metagamer I choose to believe otherwise.



Just because she is a woman, does not mean they raped her, or are you saying sodomy and rape is the norm for Orlesians?



If that is the case, it could be argued that they are worse than the darkspawn, and Loghain is correct I his paranoia.





The game is called "Dragon Age" not "Dragon Rape"

[CalJones]

Well, rape isn't necessarily used to hurt someone, but to humiliate and assert power over them. Is it Ok to rape a prostitute because she sells her body for money? Absolutely not.

As for torture not leaving masks, there was a rather digusting device known as the pear, beloved of medieval inquisitors, oft used to get women to confess to witchcraft and the like. It was liked because it was used internally, thus leaving the external body free of marks. You can Google it if you want to know the gory details but, suffice to say, it's pretty horrific.

[Mirthadrond]

My apologies, rape is a very sensitive subject for me.



I keeping thinking of the movie: Law Abiding Citizen, and how our anti-hero tortures the man responsible for his wifes rape, and murderer of his family.

Despite the excessive torture and eventual death of the rapest, as I watched I felt he didn't do enough.

I hate few things more than pedophiles and rapest.

That said, I'm bowing out of this discussion.

[Axekix]

CalJones wrote...

As for torture not leaving masks, there was a rather digusting device known as the pear, beloved of medieval inquisitors, oft used to get women to confess to witchcraft and the like. It was liked because it was used internally, thus leaving the external body free of marks. You can Google it if you want to know the gory details but, suffice to say, it's pretty horrific.

Ugh, I wish I hadn't  

That would probably fall somewhere in the rape category as well, no?

[Tirigon]

Axekix wrote...

Going through a new playthrough, it kind of dawned on me with the way she talked about her past that she might have been raped.  I did some searching but couldn't find any posts on the topic so, sorry if this has been covered before.

She prefaces the conversation about Marjolaine by saying she lied about her past because she wasn't ready to talk about what happened to her, and that it might effect "us."  And when she talks about being tortured she simply says they did "terrible things" to make her confess (with very heavy emphasis on "terrible").  Yet she has no physical scars on her body... none that are visible with the default models anyway.

This alone might not mean much, but if you talk to the female Orlesian merchant in Denerim and hear her story, you find out Chevaliers are more or less allowed to rape women at will.  IMO that puts Leliana's convo into a whole different light.

So what do you guys think?  Has this been confirmed/denied before?

Suspected that much right the first time Leluiana told me.

Always wished to meet - and especially KILL - a few of these Orlesian bastards afterwards.

[JRCHOharry]

Axekix wrote...

CalJones wrote...

As for torture not leaving masks, there was a rather digusting device known as the pear, beloved of medieval inquisitors, oft used to get women to confess to witchcraft and the like. It was liked because it was used internally, thus leaving the external body free of marks. You can Google it if you want to know the gory details but, suffice to say, it's pretty horrific.

Ugh, I wish I hadn't  

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who searched it:P  ...

[Tirigon]

Mirthadrond wrote...

Just because she is a woman, does not mean they raped her, or are you saying sodomy and rape is the norm for Orlesians?

If that is the case, it could be argued that they are worse than the darkspawn, and Loghain is correct I his paranoia.

That is probably the case, but Fereldans aren´t any better. I always thought the Darkspawn are not worse than humans which are on the other side in a war.

Though, come to think of it, the broodmother stuff is pretty sick too.

[Herr Uhl]

Tirigon wrote...

Mirthadrond wrote...

Just because she is a woman, does not mean they raped her, or are you saying sodomy and rape is the norm for Orlesians?

If that is the case, it could be argued that they are worse than the darkspawn, and Loghain is correct I his paranoia.

That is probably the case, but Fereldans aren´t any better. I always thought the Darkspawn are not worse than humans which are on the other side in a war.

Though, come to think of it, the broodmother stuff is pretty sick too.

Remember Flemeth's words.

[Tirigon]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Remember Flemeth's words.

Which? She says too many....

[Herr Uhl]

Tirigon wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Remember Flemeth's words.

Which? She says too many....

That one about there being more darkness in the hearts of men than any blight (not sure about the end)

And the one about finding things in socks too, to a lesser extent .