105 réponses à ce sujet

[OldMan91]

The most likely answer the writers will give is that they purposely left it open to interpretation.

[Sable Phoenix]

I doubt they'll address it at all, frankly.

It actually makes me admire Leliana as a character that after retreating to the safety of the Chantry, she's strong enough to heal to almost complete normalcy on her own. I've wondered if she was such a devout believer in the Maker beforehand, or if it was a defense mechanism to try and impose order and purpose on what happened to her. Given her career in Orlais, I tend to suspect the latter.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 09 avril 2010 - 03:58 .

[R-F]

i always got that when i talked to her. i really liked her character, because of how scarred and broken she was. i have no idea how anyone can harden her (or Alistair for that matter), it just seems so wrong.

[LadyDamodred]

By the time I get to kill Majorlaine, I'm like "Leliana, we've been slaughtering things across Ferelden for the last 9 months. Man up." Cruel, I know, but Leliana tended to irritate me and I didn't want to hear any more whining.

[AntiChri5]

@RF Then i see you never HAVE hardened Alistair.

Modifié par AntiChri5, 09 avril 2010 - 04:15 .

[R-F]

AntiChri5 wrote...

@RF Then i see you never HAVE hardened Alistair.

nah, he is always my pc's buddy, and i guess on this playthrough romance since im a female Cousland this time around. this is my 3rd time through and i don't anticipate doing anything different. (had different saves for the achievements, but i like my decisions)

[AntiChri5]

R-F wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

@RF Then i see you never HAVE hardened Alistair.

nah, he is always my pc's buddy, and i guess on this playthrough romance since im a female Cousland this time around. this is my 3rd time through and i don't anticipate doing anything different. (had different saves for the achievements, but i like my decisions)

I always thought hardening him was mean and unfreindly and wrong.  And then i did it. Alistair really needs it.

[LadyDamodred]

Indeed. Like people have said, hardening is a bit of a misnomer. It's just you being a good friend and teaching him to stand up for himself. The convo also doesn't help as you don't realize what you need to do.

[Emerald Melios]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

I doubt they'll address it at all, frankly.

It actually makes me admire Leliana as a character that after retreating to the safety of the Chantry, she's strong enough to heal to almost complete normalcy on her own. I've wondered if she was such a devout believer in the Maker beforehand, or if it was a defense mechanism to try and impose order and purpose on what happened to her. Given her career in Orlais, I tend to suspect the latter.

It's heavily implied in the dialogue after dealing with Marjolaine.

[Thalorin1919]

I always harden Alistair. Even though in a real life situation, that is probably something I would never say in that situation, from most of my RP characters, they believe Alistair does need to think about himself more. In the end, it benefits him and makes him a stronger person.



But I honestly cannot bring myself to harden Leliana. She seems content with her life as it is, and I dont encourage the idea of killing people as a good thing.

[Sable Phoenix]

LadyDamodred wrote...

By the time I get to kill Majorlaine, I'm like "Leliana, we've been slaughtering things across Ferelden for the last 9 months. Man up." Cruel, I know, but Leliana tended to irritate me and I didn't want to hear any more whining.

Leliana doesn't whine.  Actually little of her dialogue deals with herself.  She tells stories, talks about theology, talks about fashion, tells more stories... and if you press her about it, she'll relate some of her history to you, while glossing over the really bad stuff like being raped in prison so quickly that not everyone believes it actually happened.  In fact she gives hardly any specifics on her past life, instead relating tales of what bards are commonly percieved to be as told by other people.  The one and only really in-depth description of anything in her past life she tells you is when she talks about Marjiolane.

And I'm a little surprised that you can't see the difference between killing a faceless guard who attacks you first or a darkspawn who wants to eat you, and a former mentor and lover.

My male elf mage, who was a coldhearted and manipulative bastard, hardened Leliana.  I noticed no real benefit or detriment to doing it, and don't think I'll do it again.  Leliana does seem contented with her life and after she's come through so much to get herself to that point, I don't think there's any need to change her outlook.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 09 avril 2010 - 04:55 .

[Axekix]

I've actually never hardened Lel myself. Even when playing a darker character, the dialogue options for hardening her don't really fit IC. I don't remember the exact convo but I think I usually end up encouraging her to choose her own path.



What exactly changes about her when she's hardened?

[Sarah1281]

She wears a different outfit post-coronation, if Marjorlaine's dead she goes to the Deep Roads for an expedition instead of helping with the Urn (unless she's romanced and stays with you), and she can be talked down at the Urn when you want to poison it. And she'll have a three/foursome with Isabela at the Pearl.

[Axekix]

Sarah1281 wrote...

She wears a different outfit post-coronation, if Marjorlaine's dead she goes to the Deep Roads for an expedition instead of helping with the Urn (unless she's romanced and stays with you), and she can be talked down at the Urn when you want to poison it. And she'll have a three/foursome with Isabela at the Pearl.

Wow, that's a pretty big turn around.  Will she still give you an ultimatum if you're romancing someone else?

[Costin_Razvan]

Torture in the medieval ages has always implied rape ( on women I mean ).

[AntiChri5]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Torture in the medieval ages has always implied rape ( on women I mean ).

I wouldnt restrict it to then. If you have a man torturing a woman there will almost always be rape involved.

Modifié par AntiChri5, 09 avril 2010 - 05:16 .

[Sarah1281]

Will she still give you an ultimatum if you're romancing someone else?

Yeah, no one likes to share. If you're a HN marrying Anora she still breaks up with you but you can convince her otherwise by choosing the 'does the hero get the girl' and promising Anora is just politics.

[Meliorist13]

I'm with Emerald Melios,

Leliana was more upset over Marjolaine's betrayal than she was the tortured/raped scenario that resulted from that betrayal.  She knew that end result was a possiblity and a risk she willingly took.  Besides, Leliana is never entirely truthful with you.  She says herself later on in one line of dialog as your romance with her advances, "No more lies between us, at least concerning this" (or something to that effect).

Now then, this whole incident woke her up to what she was and loved and enjoyed doing. She flees to the Chantry in an attempt to reevaluate and restructure her life, but she just can't escape from who and what she is. Unless you totally refuse her from the start in Lothering, she basically forces/manipulates her way into your party. She is dying to get out of there.

Leliana is just what she is. She is a Bard/Spy/Assassin. Leliana is a Murderous, Coniving, Manipulating *itch. She loves it. That's why I love her.

Modifié par Meliorist13, 13 avril 2010 - 04:40 .

[Axekix]

Meliorist13 wrote...

I'm with Emerald Melios,

Leliana was more upset over Marjolaine's betrayal than she was the tortured/raped scenario that resulted from that betrayal.  She knew that end result was a possiblity and a risk she willingly took.  Besides, Leliana is never entirely truthful with you.  She says herself later on in one line of dialog as your romance with her advances, "No more lies between us, at least concerning this" (or something to that effect).

Hmm, I think it was definitely a combination of the two.  Marjolaine obviously hurt her badly with her betrayal, but the way she approaches it and the fact that she has such a hard time talking about it seems to indicate more imo.

Also, IIRC that "no more lies" line is actually at the end of the Marjolaine discussion. 

[Loc'n'lol]

RobUnreal wrote...

I guess we can all be sure that Orlais is a ****ed up place. haha

BTW, Vaughan and Rendon say hi.

[eucatastrophe]

LadyDamodred wrote...

I took it to mean she was raped. It's just in the way she delivers the word 'terrible', for me. There's a hesitation there that immediately sent my mind to it.

Agreed. "Terrible things" basically is a huge red arrow signalling emotional, and physical abuse.
If you notice, she looks down as she says it, almost as if saying it mroe to herself than your PC. Admitting it to herself perhaps, and accepting it, slowly.

[Chuvvy]

CalJones wrote...

When you meet Cullen in the Circle Tower she says that he has been denied food and water, maybe for days... "I can tell." So that would seem to have been part of her torture.
Whether she was raped or not is inconclusive. It's possible, but any kind of torture is going to be traumatic. She certainly is a little unhinged, and you can argue that running off to the cloister for two years of celibacy (re: banter with Zevran) is a likely reaction to rape. But then she doesn't seem at all freaked out if you bed her.

It's not that hard to tell if someone hasn't had water for days.

[Aisynia]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

RobUnreal wrote...

I guess we can all be sure that Orlais is a ****ed up place. haha

BTW, Vaughan and Rendon say hi.

They seem to be exceptions in Ferelden, not the rule. Everywhere has bad people, but Orlais has state sanctioned rape, which places them firmly in the "burn it to the ground" column.

Modifié par Aisynia, 15 avril 2010 - 10:12 .

[OldMan91]

but Orlais has state sanctioned rape, which places them firmly in the "burn it to the ground" column.

Not state sponsored. It's turning a blind eye, since rape would definitely not be legal or sponsored in any way.

[Aisynia]

BULL****.



Talk to Liselle.



"The chevalier are knights of the highest order. They are the most skilled in the world, their discipline formidable. For their service they are allowed...privileges. They can do whatever they want to the lesser-born."