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[Ryzaki]

Xandurpein wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

lordtrevas wrote...

MrBoomba wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

lordtrevas wrote...

Bratt1204 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Conquered sex? Dude, does that crap actually work where you're from?

I know, seriously.

clearly you are not familiar with one night stands. You do know they exist, right?

They are also consensual. Conquering tends to mean there's a loser no? One night stands both parties win.

Bondage comes to mind when I hear the word "conquered"... just saying...

lol bondage...Nah, I meant conquer as in guy "conquers" girl (usually not all that interested in him) and has a good night with her

...So you mean rape? 

Because anything consensual would be mutually beneficial.

Unless of course the guy sucks at giving the girl pleasure which would be more like bad sex than conquered sex.

The sad truth about way to many teenage stories. The guy 'persuade' a girl by nagging/begging/bullying her until she half heartedly agrees leaving her felling raped and him imagining he is a stud. bleeh.

Ugh. I hate those kind of guys. <_<

[Ryzaki]

Bah! Double Post of Failure!

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 avril 2010 - 12:11 .

[hexaligned]

Well this topic started out slightly interesting, it's sort of jumped the shark though, regardless I'll throw down my 2 cents for boredoms sake. I think a lot of people are viewing this through a lens tinted by their own cultural beliefs rather than accepting how it's actually carried out in the game. Personally I have never had a romantic relationship that didn't include sex, hell when I was younger most of my friendships with the opposite sex did too (sadly I'm not allowed that anymore) I also grew up in a very liberal part of the US though, Christian population was pretty much nonexistant, it was mostly pagans, agnostics, and wiccans. That being said, the relationships in DAO didn't stand out as anything unusual to me, without emotional or religious hangups, there really is no reason sex wouldn't be included in any adult relationship.

[MrBoomba]

relhart wrote...

Well this topic started out slightly interesting, it's sort of jumped the shark though, regardless I'll throw down my 2 cents for boredoms sake. I think a lot of people are viewing this through a lens tinted by their own cultural beliefs rather than accepting how it's actually carried out in the game. Personally I have never had a romantic relationship that didn't include sex, hell when I was younger most of my friendships with the opposite sex did too (sadly I'm not allowed that anymore) I also grew up in a very liberal part of the US though, Christian population was pretty much nonexistant, it was mostly pagans, agnostics, and wiccans. That being said, the relationships in DAO didn't stand out as anything unusual to me, without emotional or religious hangups, there really is no reason sex wouldn't be included in any adult relationship.

Very well put insight on such a thing, from what I had read we did seem to miss that point, or try to avoid the political/religious standpoint if anything.

[Janni-in-VA]

"Personally I have never had a romantic relationship that didn't include sex, hell when I was younger most of my friendships with the opposite sex did too...."

I have to admit this is true of my adult relationships, and so I didn't see anything "off" with having a sexual relationship in DA:O. My personal history aside, romance doesn't have to include sex -- the tradition of courtly love, for example -- and sex doesn't necessarily include romance.

If one plays the vanilla game, the sex scene only plays once. And, as I found out earlier in this thread, you can play the romances without sex. I think that leaving it up to the player to decide the path of the romance is a nice touch, so I'm just as happy that the sex option is there, but not forced.

[TheMadCat]

Well one thing to remember something, this is the epic tale of a character and not their lives story or the story of their relationship. Sex is part of any relationship sure, but in context to the story does it need to be shown/explained? Obviously if your character falls in love with *Fill in the blank* than it's safe to assume at some point they'll be going at it. I've got no problem with sex scenes in games, movies, books, and whatever other form of media we can come up with. But as with everything else I do think it ultimately needs to have a point rather than being there just for the sake of being there.

Unfortunately that's kind of what I felt with Dragon Age, that Morrigan scene aside. It was there really just to be there and kind of serve as a finish line of sorts. Sure it was optional but it can still be made optional and still be situated and used much better. Sex can be a great device, but it seemed like it was used more as a gimmick than anything in an attempt to add to the "dark" and "adult" factor.

[MrBoomba]

TheMadCat wrote...

Well one thing to remember something, this is the epic tale of a character and not their lives story or the story of their relationship. Sex is part of any relationship sure, but in context to the story does it need to be shown/explained? Obviously if your character falls in love with *Fill in the blank* than it's safe to assume at some point they'll be going at it. I've got no problem with sex scenes in games, movies, books, and whatever other form of media we can come up with. But as with everything else I do think it ultimately needs to have a point rather than being there just for the sake of being there.

Unfortunately that's kind of what I felt with Dragon Age, that Morrigan scene aside. It was there really just to be there and kind of serve as a finish line of sorts. Sure it was optional but it can still be made optional and still be situated and used much better. Sex can be a great device, but it seemed like it was used more as a gimmick than anything in an attempt to add to the "dark" and "adult" factor.

Cant quite say this is how I thought of the whole morrigan scene was a rather sightful thing that I had not seen in a game before. I personally always make Alister suck it up and go with it, I do find it rather funny forcing those 2 opposites together, lol.
The love making doenst seem to be on the dark side for me, more so a brighter side of the game sense the rest of it is death and horror. It being an option allows you to experience everything from an angle most games dont and allow you to go that one step further, but able to deny it which most games say, NO MUST HAVE SEX!!!! Cant say much other than that really, It may be I dont look for games with sex, but this is the only one that doesnt make you have sex.

[TheMadCat]

I agree, the second Morrigan scene was great which is why I made it the exception. And by "dark" I used that in refrence to dark fantasy which is what BioWare looks at DA:O as. The moment itself obviously isn't dark, but the nature of sex being considered "adult" in my wonderful Americano culture typically coincides with the dark fantasy setting. What I'm getting at is the scenes were just so random it really lessened the impact it could have had and felt like they were there for the sake of being there. I know people love choice and control but this is one of those things I think is better off being tied directly to the story rather than player choice and pace.

Think of it this way. What would have been stronger, having it as it is now where the player selects the time or say at Redcliff castle before you make your way to Denerim for the final onslaught where for added fun and impact it would also compete with Morrigan's offer.

[AlanC9]

I completely disagree. If that's where the relationship is going, why not show it? I suppose you can make an ROI argument that the cutscene guys should have spent time working on something else, but I don't see a fade-to-black as being inherently superior to what we got in DA.

[TheMadCat]

Who said anything about making it a fade-to-black scene?

[MaxQuartiroli]

Sorry, I'd really like to know if we are talking about the same game...

After the sex scene with Leliana I had:

- A dialogue where I told her I hoped a day I would become as important to her as Majorlaine was... And she told me that day was already arrived and she LOVES me
- A dialogue where we discussed what to do after the end of our adventures telling her "I LOVE you and I will follow you at the edge of the world "
- A dialogue at the Denerim's port before the final battle where she said I was her dearest friend and LOVE and she would stand with me whatever may happen
- A dialogue after the final battle where she said there was no other place to stay for her except to be at my side...

After all these dialogues I want to know how you can say that the romance finishes after you had sex with her, and there isn't anything after it..or that the romance is only "reach the goal to going to bed with her", because it's not true...

At the opposite I trust the most emotional and deep dialogues are after making love with her, and not before, and the word "love" that I write with caps in my quotes appears only after the sex scene

I really don't know what you may ask more than this, in order to say the romance is just perfect and is the story of a deep romance, not the story of a sexual adventure...

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 10 avril 2010 - 10:58 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Romance without sex...what's the point? Might as well just be friends. I like the fact that love scenes and hints of sexual activity are present. That's what adults usually do, though not always. To each their own. You don't have to have sex, at least with Alistair in my experience, to have a romantic relationship with him. You can always say "let's wait" or something. No harm, no foul.



I, however, never turn down the opportunity for some sexytime with attractive, willing companions. My PC's life is uncertain and chaotic. She will take what she can get, when she can get it, because there might not be a tommorow.

[Sabriana]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Romance without sex...what's the point? Might as well just be friends. I like the fact that love scenes and hints of sexual activity are present. That's what adults usually do, though not always. To each their own. You don't have to have sex, at least with Alistair in my experience, to have a romantic relationship with him. You can always say "let's wait" or something. No harm, no foul.

I, however, never turn down the opportunity for some sexytime with attractive, willing companions. My PC's life is uncertain and chaotic. She will take what she can get, when she can get it, because there might not be a tommorow.

Skadi, that whole 'OMG it's sex' thing is weird to me anyways. It seems to be a cultural thing as well. Over here, they have several snits and hissy fits about the violence, but none about any sexual content.

I love a good story with plenty of sexual tension. Electricity ftw. As for the Warden, a good roll in the hay can relieve copious amounts of tension and make her ready to face another day of battling darkspawn, bounty-hunters, bandits, and exasperating quests for would-be allies.

[nranola]

Well... romance without sex is doable; that's how I played it with Fem!Tabris and Zevran, anyhow. The game gives you that much freedom.

[SurelyForth]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Romance without sex...what's the point? Might as well just be friends. I like the fact that love scenes and hints of sexual activity are present. That's what adults usually do, though not always. To each their own. You don't have to have sex, at least with Alistair in my experience, to have a romantic relationship with him. You can always say "let's wait" or something. No harm, no foul.

I, however, never turn down the opportunity for some sexytime with attractive, willing companions. My PC's life is uncertain and chaotic. She will take what she can get, when she can get it, because there might not be a tommorow.

I so agree.

The opposite of keeping things chaste with Ali, my main PC tented him as soon as he hit adore and put off his personal quest until the Landsmeet (so no transition to love until very late in the game). She liked him, but was non-committal due to her own personal issues. He provided a nice distraction from all the death and fighting. Once they were in love he was hardened and at a point where he seemed determined to make the relationship work. It seems backwards, but I found it preferable to rushing the romance, waiting for him to invite the PC to the tent, and then having hours of game to see him pull away and waffle on the future. 

[Chuvvy]

EWWW... We've never "Made Love".

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Sabriana wrote...



Skadi, that whole 'OMG it's sex' thing is weird to me anyways. It seems to be a cultural thing as well. Over here, they have several snits and hissy fits about the violence, but none about any sexual content.

I love a good story with plenty of sexual tension. Electricity ftw. As for the Warden, a good roll in the hay can relieve copious amounts of tension and make her ready to face another day of battling darkspawn, bounty-hunters, bandits, and exasperating quests for would-be allies.

I've never understood it myself, the anti-sex but violence-is-ok mentality. Both are facts of life. Creation and destruction are two sides of the same coin, one can't exist without the other.

So sopending the game running around destroying and dealing death liberally, without some opportunity for the act of creation (even if nothing is technically created) seems unbalanced. Love and hate, war and peace, life and death. This is life, this is reality.

Sexual tension is a wonderful RP element. There are so many different ways it can go, expand, ect upon the plot. I do different things with my romances with different characters. It's all quite rewarding.

@surely: I've never hardened him post landsmeet. What's that like? How does it affect dialogue?

[Bratt1204]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Romance without sex...what's the point? Might as well just be friends. I like the fact that love scenes and hints of sexual activity are present. That's what adults usually do, though not always. To each their own. You don't have to have sex, at least with Alistair in my experience, to have a romantic relationship with him. You can always say "let's wait" or something. No harm, no foul.

I, however, never turn down the opportunity for some sexytime with attractive, willing companions. My PC's life is uncertain and chaotic. She will take what she can get, when she can get it, because there might not be a tommorow.

Agreed.

[ejoslin]

nranola wrote...

Well... romance without sex is doable; that's how I played it with Fem!Tabris and Zevran, anyhow. The game gives you that much freedom.

Well, you do need to proposition him at least once.

[SurelyForth]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

@surely: I've never hardened him post landsmeet. What's that like? How does it affect dialogue?

Goldanna mentions that she heard there was a new king and wondered if it might be him (whether he was made king or not). There are a few tiny changes in that vein, but that's about it.

I usually do it on the way to the Landsmeet chamber. Sort of a "Just in case we get beheaded this afternoon, maybe we should stop by and see your sister. That'll be a nice memory to take with you, right?" type thing. Only, for some reason, it never quite works out that way...

[errant_knight]

SurelyForth wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

@surely: I've never hardened him post landsmeet. What's that like? How does it affect dialogue?

Goldanna mentions that she heard there was a new king and wondered if it might be him (whether he was made king or not). There are a few tiny changes in that vein, but that's about it.

I usually do it on the way to the Landsmeet chamber. Sort of a "Just in case we get beheaded this afternoon, maybe we should stop by and see your sister. That'll be a nice memory to take with you, right?" type thing. Only, for some reason, it never quite works out that way...

Is she any nicer when she so clearly could be cutting off her nose to spite her face? It takes a certain amount of brass to be that mean to the future king.... Of course, you can let her know that Alistair is going to be king when you go before Landsmeet and it changes nothing in her behavior. Goldana isn't entirely bright.

[SurelyForth]

errant_knight wrote...


Is she any nicer when she so clearly could be cutting off her nose to spite her face? It takes a certain amount of brass to be that mean to the future king.... Of course, you can let her know that Alistair is going to be king when you go before Landsmeet and it changes nothing in her behavior. Goldana isn't entirely bright.

No, not any nicer. Just a smidge more excited in the beginning.

[TheMadCat]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Romance without sex...what's the point? Might as well just be friends. I like the fact that love scenes and hints of sexual activity are present. That's what adults usually do, though not always. To each their own. You don't have to have sex, at least with Alistair in my experience, to have a romantic relationship with him. You can always say "let's wait" or something. No harm, no foul.

I, however, never turn down the opportunity for some sexytime with attractive, willing companions. My PC's life is uncertain and chaotic. She will take what she can get, when she can get it, because there might not be a tommorow.

But that's the point, we know they'll be going at it like jack rabbits sooner or later so is it something that needs to be told simply for the sake of being told? To me having sex for the sake of sex doesn't do much in the context of a story. It can be a great plot device and add a ton to the characters and the story by creating tensions and drama, stirring emotiongs, ect. But to me having it happen in the middle of camp on some random night God knows where in Ferelden just doesn't add anything.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

It does for me. To actually see the scene gives the romance more impact, adds to the flavor of the story. We might know everything, but our characters don't. I like to RP heavily from their own point of view. Love and romance seldom come at the most opportune moments, and have a way of hitting you when you least expect. It adds to the realism and mood of the game.



the story itself isn't a point A to point B affair. The archdemon battle and ending the blight is a bit anti-climatic. The real story is about the journey there, dealing with the triumphs and failings of different people and social systems, of human strengths and weaknesses, of complex and difficult moral dilemas, personal issues, ect...so many things happening on your way to saving the world that really have little to no bearing on the Blight or Archdemon. But all of it adds to the story and the richness of the tale. The PC might be a Warden, but how he or she got there varies, as well as how they might feel about things. His or her approach to others, to life, friends and lovers, will also be different.



Thus, I do not find the inclusion of love scenes to be superfluous, it adds a dimension of reality for me to the relationship. Hell, the scenes themselves are exceedingly tame and vanilla. I like them, underwear and all. They give a taste while leaving plenty for the imagination to chew on.



If you do not like the inclusion of sex scenes, you can avoid sex and still pursue a romance with someone (not certain about Zevran, never played a "chaste" romance with him because it seemed out of sinc with him) without sex until you are ready/married/in a better situation, RPwise.



However, there are many of us who are very happy with the scenes included, because it creates a visual effect and dimension of the romance. It expands the dimensions of gameplay and character interaction for me.

[TheMadCat]

Err, what that directed at me? If it was you're way off base with the point I was making.