298 réponses à ce sujet

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Alamar2078 wrote...

For most of the game there's no need to have a squadmate be "second in command" ... I wouldn't even want anyone in that post:

-- Cereberus guys I don't trust much
-- Garrus has a bad habit of losing people & predicatably is revenge oriented when slighted ... too easy to take advantage of him

bad habit? he only lost one squad and that was because of a traitor none the less. Can't really hold that against him.

[_- Songlian -]

Garrus.

[Puppet Doctor]

Well I will go with Garrus because he has experience in leadership and is my second favorite squadmate (behind Kasumi).

[GuardianAngel470]

Major Truth wrote...

I'm quite shocked at the amount of people who believe Garrus is the best choice as your number 2. Lets look at his record, anyone he ever lead is dead !

Theres one clear choice, Miranda, Miranda a thousand times Miranda. Like her or loathe  her she is the best choice on paper and practically. Below is how I would rate the squad in terms of ability yo lead

1. Miranda - experience of leading teams, cool, calm and collected with an excellent tactical knowledge. Will never let personal feelings hamper a mission

2. Mordin - Will always look to take the correct choice in terms of the mission. Smart and intelligent with Solarian intelligence background

3. Tali - The voice of reason, never headstrong

4. Jacob - Cool under fire, does not allow his emotions control him

5. Samara - A wealth of life experience, and a strict code of honour

6. Garrus - Intelligent, dependable but too headstrong. Shoot first ask questions later

The below aren't capable of leading

Grunt - one week old, barely knows who he is himself

Thane - Has worked alone his whole life

Jack - Stark raving bonkers

Miranda was in charge of an operation that suffered a deadly mutiny, Garrus's team died because the enemy got to one of his team and were able to force said team member to betray his teammates.  Miranda has no military training what soever, the only thing that you could possibly say she has tactical expertise from is the fact that she and Jacob stopped that batarian attack on the citadel.  However, we don't know what happened during that mission or what the two of them actually did, therefore We can't say that she does or doesn't have tactical knowledge based on that one mission.


Her leadership abilities are the most in question.  The fact that there was a mutiny as a direct result of her poor motivational skills leads me to believe she would be a poor second in command.  She is disliked and distrusted by my team thus making her a bad second in command.  An unpopular leader is the first to get fragged, especially when an unfathomable amount of lives are at stake.  If Miranda's inexperience in battlefield situations, the type the normandy is likely to encounter, leads to poor decision making then she was a bad choice for second in command.

Garrus has served on navy vessels in the military and based on his skill as a hand to hand specialist it seems as if he was important.  He was nominated for spectre training after all.  His experience in the military gives him the qualifications to lead a navy vessel in a fight, at least as much as shepard (shepard is the captain of a ship but he goes on every ground operation....That makes sense).  His display of tactical knowledge and skill on Omega make him several tiers ahead of Miranda.  He was able to destroy the operations of three major merc groups as well as Omega's gangs with only a twelve man team and base of operations, very impressive.  Bested only by shepard, IMO.

[GuardianAngel470]

- Songlian - wrote...

Garrus.

It seems this thread has reached a consensus.

[inversevideo]

Garrus. Accept no substitute.

[keegdarv1]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Major Truth wrote...

I'm quite shocked at the amount of people who believe Garrus is the best choice as your number 2. Lets look at his record, anyone he ever lead is dead !

Theres one clear choice, Miranda, Miranda a thousand times Miranda. Like her or loathe  her she is the best choice on paper and practically. Below is how I would rate the squad in terms of ability yo lead

1. Miranda - experience of leading teams, cool, calm and collected with an excellent tactical knowledge. Will never let personal feelings hamper a mission

2. Mordin - Will always look to take the correct choice in terms of the mission. Smart and intelligent with Solarian intelligence background

3. Tali - The voice of reason, never headstrong

4. Jacob - Cool under fire, does not allow his emotions control him

5. Samara - A wealth of life experience, and a strict code of honour

6. Garrus - Intelligent, dependable but too headstrong. Shoot first ask questions later

The below aren't capable of leading

Grunt - one week old, barely knows who he is himself

Thane - Has worked alone his whole life

Jack - Stark raving bonkers

Miranda was in charge of an operation that suffered a deadly mutiny, Garrus's team died because the enemy got to one of his team and were able to force said team member to betray his teammates.  Miranda has no military training what soever, the only thing that you could possibly say she has tactical expertise from is the fact that she and Jacob stopped that batarian attack on the citadel.  However, we don't know what happened during that mission or what the two of them actually did, therefore We can't say that she does or doesn't have tactical knowledge based on that one mission.


Her leadership abilities are the most in question.  The fact that there was a mutiny as a direct result of her poor motivational skills leads me to believe she would be a poor second in command.  She is disliked and distrusted by my team thus making her a bad second in command.  An unpopular leader is the first to get fragged, especially when an unfathomable amount of lives are at stake.  If Miranda's inexperience in battlefield situations, the type the normandy is likely to encounter, leads to poor decision making then she was a bad choice for second in command.

Garrus has served on navy vessels in the military and based on his skill as a hand to hand specialist it seems as if he was important.  He was nominated for spectre training after all.  His experience in the military gives him the qualifications to lead a navy vessel in a fight, at least as much as shepard (shepard is the captain of a ship but he goes on every ground operation....That makes sense).  His display of tactical knowledge and skill on Omega make him several tiers ahead of Miranda.  He was able to destroy the operations of three major merc groups as well as Omega's gangs with only a twelve man team and base of operations, very impressive.  Bested only by shepard, IMO.

so i have to wonder a bit is this you wanting to know who people pick as thier second in command or a bash Miranda thing?

one person does not a mutiny make, only Wilson one person kind of like Garrus yet you call that a betray

i can list as many reason as what makes Miranda a fine second in command as you can list she doesnt, but to say she doesnt have or to think she doesnt have experience is stupid you dont need miliitary skills to lead. the fact she was hand picked to lead the group to bring Shepard back is prove she had to have done alot for Cerberus to be one of 12 people that leads a Cerberus cell.

motivational skills are not the job of a second in command, and it works out well that Shepard as more then enough motivational skills to hand it fine

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

keegdarv1 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Major Truth wrote...

I'm quite shocked at the amount of people who believe Garrus is the best choice as your number 2. Lets look at his record, anyone he ever lead is dead !

Theres one clear choice, Miranda, Miranda a thousand times Miranda. Like her or loathe  her she is the best choice on paper and practically. Below is how I would rate the squad in terms of ability yo lead

1. Miranda - experience of leading teams, cool, calm and collected with an excellent tactical knowledge. Will never let personal feelings hamper a mission

2. Mordin - Will always look to take the correct choice in terms of the mission. Smart and intelligent with Solarian intelligence background

3. Tali - The voice of reason, never headstrong

4. Jacob - Cool under fire, does not allow his emotions control him

5. Samara - A wealth of life experience, and a strict code of honour

6. Garrus - Intelligent, dependable but too headstrong. Shoot first ask questions later

The below aren't capable of leading

Grunt - one week old, barely knows who he is himself

Thane - Has worked alone his whole life

Jack - Stark raving bonkers

Miranda was in charge of an operation that suffered a deadly mutiny, Garrus's team died because the enemy got to one of his team and were able to force said team member to betray his teammates.  Miranda has no military training what soever, the only thing that you could possibly say she has tactical expertise from is the fact that she and Jacob stopped that batarian attack on the citadel.  However, we don't know what happened during that mission or what the two of them actually did, therefore We can't say that she does or doesn't have tactical knowledge based on that one mission.


Her leadership abilities are the most in question.  The fact that there was a mutiny as a direct result of her poor motivational skills leads me to believe she would be a poor second in command.  She is disliked and distrusted by my team thus making her a bad second in command.  An unpopular leader is the first to get fragged, especially when an unfathomable amount of lives are at stake.  If Miranda's inexperience in battlefield situations, the type the normandy is likely to encounter, leads to poor decision making then she was a bad choice for second in command.

Garrus has served on navy vessels in the military and based on his skill as a hand to hand specialist it seems as if he was important.  He was nominated for spectre training after all.  His experience in the military gives him the qualifications to lead a navy vessel in a fight, at least as much as shepard (shepard is the captain of a ship but he goes on every ground operation....That makes sense).  His display of tactical knowledge and skill on Omega make him several tiers ahead of Miranda.  He was able to destroy the operations of three major merc groups as well as Omega's gangs with only a twelve man team and base of operations, very impressive.  Bested only by shepard, IMO.

so i have to wonder a bit is this you wanting to know who people pick as thier second in command or a bash Miranda thing?

one person does not a mutiny make, only Wilson one person kind of like Garrus yet you call that a betray

i can list as many reason as what makes Miranda a fine second in command as you can list she doesnt, but to say she doesnt have or to think she doesnt have experience is stupid you dont need miliitary skills to lead. the fact she was hand picked to lead the group to bring Shepard back is prove she had to have done alot for Cerberus to be one of 12 people that leads a Cerberus cell.

motivational skills are not the job of a second in command, and it works out well that Shepard as more then enough motivational skills to hand it fine

Also got to remember that everyone is based off their perceptions of the characters. Perception is everything and nothing at the same time.

[AceTrilby101]

Garrus, the G-Man, G-Dawg, Roll Gizzlebeef, Gazza, Simon & Garrusfunkel, The Vakuum Cleaner, G Tom Vak, whatever you want to call him.

Frankly, it was either going to be him or Miri, but I reckon he trusts Shepard more, having served with him longer.

Modifié par AceTrilby101, 07 avril 2010 - 08:42 .

[LOLandStuff]

Miranda isn't made to be a leader. From what I've seen so far, she was placed as one in whatever she was doing because she blindly followed TIM's orders, never questioning him and she has a tendency to be pessimistic which I always found demorilizing. Since she was a worshiper of Cerberus and TIM, he took advantage of her, knowing she will never betray him. Because that's what TIM does, he uses everyone and then throws them away like used clinex. Is she even taking a p*** without TIM telling her?

I don't see how some people can put Tali as XO. She's good at what she's doing and should stay there. Too air-headed to look after people and doesn't command any respect but for her skills.

Someone said Samara? With her code, people will do whatever she said, living in constant fear to choose carefully the words and form the correct sentences that sound just. Else there will be a rampage of neck snapping.

Thane can't take care of his family...I don't need to continue on this.

Zaeed is selfish, he was good at training people back when he was Blue Sun. But when it comes to the group "To hell with everyone. Be my meat shields while I make a run for it." Besides him, everyone dies in his missions.

My options are Garrus, Kaidan and Jacob, even if I hate him.

Modifié par LOLandStuff, 07 avril 2010 - 08:59 .

[Sesshomaru47]

Miranda like the game says she is, not the you'd know. Jacob always butting in with his worthless 2 cents. Doesn't mean I take her on missions though, she likes to play dead.

[Barquiel]

1. Miranda
2. Mordin or Samara

Garrus?
his list of failures:
- he lost his team and Shepard had to rescue him on Omega
- Saleon, Sidonis, evidence against Saren = he needed Shepard

I would rather choose Kelly...

Modifié par Barquiel, 07 avril 2010 - 09:17 .

[Sesshomaru47]

Garrus was lured away by a trusted team member so that's not his fault. The thing with Dr. Saleon and Saren were totally C-SEC not Garrus. He would have gone to any lengths to get them.

[this isnt my name]

Legion, he has no emotion only logic...And he kicks ass.

[Alamar2078]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

Alamar2078 wrote...

For most of the game there's no need to have a squadmate be "second in command" ... I wouldn't even want anyone in that post:

-- Cereberus guys I don't trust much
-- Garrus has a bad habit of losing people & predicatably is revenge oriented when slighted ... too easy to take advantage of him

bad habit? he only lost one squad and that was because of a traitor none the less. Can't really hold that against him.

I hope that the whole "revenge" thing will be taken as a given.

As far as losing people I meant both his squad and targets [in both ME1 & ME2] that he needs Shep's help to track down .... He strikes me as an OK squad leader for short term missions but I wouldn't trust him in the long term to "get the job done the way I want it".

[Khayness]

Garrus obviously.

[wulf3n]

InvaderErl wrote...

Without a beacon no rescue ships show up to pick escape pods.

but not something the CO of a ship should be doing. I counted at least 6 people running away from that area, that Shepard could have ordered to launch the beacon.

Modifié par wulf3n, 07 avril 2010 - 10:14 .

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

wulf3n wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Without a beacon no rescue ships show up to pick escape pods.

but not something the CO of a ship should be doing. I counted at least 6 people running away from that area, that Shepard could have ordered to launch the beacon.

Yes well Also gotta remember, sheppard is the kindof person - do it yourself to get it right.

[NoUserNameHere]

Who's been with me from day one? Garrus!

Who just told their longtime boss to go screw himself? Miranda!

Who doesn't even need a loyalty mission? Joker!

[GuardianAngel470]

keegdarv1 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Major Truth wrote...

I'm quite shocked at the amount of people who believe Garrus is the best choice as your number 2. Lets look at his record, anyone he ever lead is dead !

Theres one clear choice, Miranda, Miranda a thousand times Miranda. Like her or loathe  her she is the best choice on paper and practically. Below is how I would rate the squad in terms of ability yo lead

1. Miranda - experience of leading teams, cool, calm and collected with an excellent tactical knowledge. Will never let personal feelings hamper a mission

2. Mordin - Will always look to take the correct choice in terms of the mission. Smart and intelligent with Solarian intelligence background

3. Tali - The voice of reason, never headstrong

4. Jacob - Cool under fire, does not allow his emotions control him

5. Samara - A wealth of life experience, and a strict code of honour

6. Garrus - Intelligent, dependable but too headstrong. Shoot first ask questions later

The below aren't capable of leading

Grunt - one week old, barely knows who he is himself

Thane - Has worked alone his whole life

Jack - Stark raving bonkers

Miranda was in charge of an operation that suffered a deadly mutiny, Garrus's team died because the enemy got to one of his team and were able to force said team member to betray his teammates.  Miranda has no military training what soever, the only thing that you could possibly say she has tactical expertise from is the fact that she and Jacob stopped that batarian attack on the citadel.  However, we don't know what happened during that mission or what the two of them actually did, therefore We can't say that she does or doesn't have tactical knowledge based on that one mission.


Her leadership abilities are the most in question.  The fact that there was a mutiny as a direct result of her poor motivational skills leads me to believe she would be a poor second in command.  She is disliked and distrusted by my team thus making her a bad second in command.  An unpopular leader is the first to get fragged, especially when an unfathomable amount of lives are at stake.  If Miranda's inexperience in battlefield situations, the type the normandy is likely to encounter, leads to poor decision making then she was a bad choice for second in command.

Garrus has served on navy vessels in the military and based on his skill as a hand to hand specialist it seems as if he was important.  He was nominated for spectre training after all.  His experience in the military gives him the qualifications to lead a navy vessel in a fight, at least as much as shepard (shepard is the captain of a ship but he goes on every ground operation....That makes sense).  His display of tactical knowledge and skill on Omega make him several tiers ahead of Miranda.  He was able to destroy the operations of three major merc groups as well as Omega's gangs with only a twelve man team and base of operations, very impressive.  Bested only by shepard, IMO.

so i have to wonder a bit is this you wanting to know who people pick as thier second in command or a bash Miranda thing?

one person does not a mutiny make, only Wilson one person kind of like Garrus yet you call that a betray

i can list as many reason as what makes Miranda a fine second in command as you can list she doesnt, but to say she doesnt have or to think she doesnt have experience is stupid you dont need miliitary skills to lead. the fact she was hand picked to lead the group to bring Shepard back is prove she had to have done alot for Cerberus to be one of 12 people that leads a Cerberus cell.

motivational skills are not the job of a second in command, and it works out well that Shepard as more then enough motivational skills to hand it fine

I was merely giving you my rationale for why I would never put her in command.  I feel that if Garrus had been in charge of the lazarus project then Wilson would either fall in line or be dead by the wayside.  He does have a good eye for character, something you would know if you didn't kill sidonis.  

And you do need military experience to lead a military squad.  Claiming otherwise is like saying because you read some books on the military you are somehow qualified to lead a military unit in Iraq or Afghanistan.  Would you as a civilian presume to know how to fight in a war without training?  That is what miranda is, a civilian with no military training whatsoever.  We may differ on her ability to lead but that fact is indisputable.

[InvaderErl]

wulf3n wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

Without a
beacon no rescue ships show up to pick escape pods.

but
not something the CO of a ship should be doing. I counted at least 6
people running away from that area, that Shepard could have ordered to
launch the beacon.

And the ship was being badly beaten quickly. It wouldn't take a genius to take ONE look and see the ship was lost. He made a quick decision (30 seconds at most given the cutscene to send the beacon or thereabout - you said earlier there may have been a span of time that we didn't see but that's an assumption and there's no actual piece of evidence to support that idea) that helped to save the lives of his crew.

His being on the bridge would have contributed nothing to the battle since the Collector ship had clearly been lying in wait. Every second was critical and given the scenario he did more good sending the beacon than heading to the bridge to be informed of the obvious - that they were under attack and they would need to evacuate.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 07 avril 2010 - 10:25 .

[DPSSOC]

Miranda would be my first choice. She's level headed, intelligent, determined, and able to improvise.



Garrus has a lot of things going for him but I can't shake the feeling that he's got a death wish. I just get that kind of vibe and a man actively seeking his own death is not someone you want in charge.

[GuardianAngel470]

 

DPSSOC wrote...

Miranda would be my first choice. She's level headed, intelligent, determined, and able to improvise.

Garrus has a lot of things going for him but I can't shake the feeling that he's got a death wish. I just get that kind of vibe and a man actively seeking his own death is not someone you want in charge.

I never got that vibe from him.  It's your opinion though and you are entitled to it.  And I would agree that if I did get that vibe from him he wouldn't be my second in command.  Jacob would be followed by Joker/EDI.

[uhdnrt]

Based on her dialogue, Miranda would likely make a better Spec Ops mission leader than Garrus. However, a good 2IC? Not overall IMO. Besides, being the XO doesn't make yo the second in command necessarily. Look at ME1. Shep is Captain, Pressley the XO, but it was pretty clear that Kaiden was the 2IC based on reactions. Based around the pregame and in game actions, it would be (for me):



Commander: Shepard

LT(2IC): Garrus

XO: Miranda

GC: Jacob (he does fill Ashley's Gunnery Chief position)

SO: Mordin is clearly the Science Officer

CE: Tali is clearly the Chief Engineer



Garrus (and Jacob) most definitely fit the trope for the Lancer (I am NOT linking it!!)