207 réponses à ce sujet

[Bucky_McLachlan]

Bucky_McLachlan wrote...

The only things Bioware needs to explain in regard to gay Shep is this.

Well and this. Because why they didn't have gay Shep in the first game but the files are present in both games is just odd.

Also, the first video is pretty damn funny.

I guess people don't care that Bioware bothered to record all the dialogue for a gay Shepard/Alenko romance but they're now saying it's a "narrative decision and if he were gay it'd be breaking character blahblah".

[catabuca]

KainrycKarr wrote...



Because in most families, gay is still not accepted. Bioware is a company. It's obvious they are trying to appeal to a wider demographic. They even explained it as such.

Should it be this way? Nope. But it is.

I don't know where you come up with this 'in most families' stuff. It's 2010 - 'most' people don't really give a damn, the rest are actively 'pro' because they want to promote social inclusion, or actively 'anti' because they are scared of social inclusion. Simples.

[casedawgz]

ImperialOperative wrote...

People who say they watch Yaoi for the loving relationships are like people who say they read playboy for the great articles.

While it's certainly true that most people read Playboy for bewbs, it DOES have great articles. Farenheit 451? That classic of American literature? First published in Playboy.

[Kaiser Shepard]

So, would this justify as a flamewar?

[jlb524]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Because in most families, gay is still not accepted.

Neither is a female shaving her head, covering herself with tattooes, and cussing like a sailor.

Why did they include that one!

[Inquisitor Recon]

Siansonea II wrote...
It appears you support eugenics, the genetic modification of humanity to remove 'undesirable' traits, is that fair to say? You should know before you answer that this topic is closely related to **** Germany and topics like ethnic cleansing. Undesirable traits are quite subjective, let us not forget. Not every variation from the standard template is a disease or a disorder, merely a variation.

And by virtue of your first fact, you argue that inclusion of homosexual content in ME2 DLC or ME3 shouldn't have an impact on sales. In that case, why not let those who want it, have it? Why is it so important for you that your Shepard not even have the possibility of establishing a homosexual romantic connection? Are you concerned that your Shepard will make choices against your will?

**** party eugenics involved mass murder and sterilization. I don't support any such initiative through those means. I don't believe removing genetic disorders and conditions through modern technology is comparable. Especially when you consider all sorts of nasty things like cancer have some amount of genetic probability linked with them. From the ME codex it appears that most people are genetically treated, possibly at an early stage of development before they are born. It may sound cruel to call things like autism or homosexuality "disorders" but I cannot imagine any parent choosing not to treat such conditions if possible.

And yes you do need limits, or somebody would decide that everybody must look like Mr. Clean, but we aren't talking about that.

Why not let those who want it have it? Becaues it detracts from useful development time that can be put towards other things, and because I am sick and tired of people acting like they are entitled to it from Bioware. It could also result in characters being made *cheaper* (everybody is bisexual!), and the general population would be better served by more weaponry options. As far as the "missing dialouge" goes it has already been stated that both the male and female Shepard voice actors say all the lines, regardless of if they are ever going to be used or not.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 08 avril 2010 - 07:45 .

[Kusy]

RedTracer7 wrote...
Bioware, you have some explaining to do.

RedTracer7 wrote...
Ray Muzyka: "Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional. 

We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But that's by choice. "

Well this sounds like an explanation to me...

[ImperialOperative]

casedawgz wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

People who say they watch Yaoi for the loving relationships are like people who say they read playboy for the great articles.

While it's certainly true that most people read Playboy for bewbs, it DOES have great articles. Farenheit 451? That classic of American literature? First published in Playboy.

So it works exaclty how I stated.  Some people do look into for some good stuff for both things, most people look at it for the candy in both things.

[Siansonea]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Lamiea wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...
Gay can be considered a genetic disorder based on the fact that what they do is not compatible by nature.

Actually, no, that is not correct.

Gay sex between two men = you know what it is. The hole is not designed by nature for that purpose. Therefore, not compatible.


Please distinguish what I'm saying. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying that by nature, it is considered a disorder, abnormal, unnatural.

This does not make it wrong. I am just explaining.

By this reasoning, cunnilingus and fellatio are also unnatural acts. The human mouth was designed to take in food, air and to speak, not to stimulate the genitalia of another human. The fact that such behaviors are quite common, and that anal intercourse is not practiced exclusively by male homosexuals, takes the wind out of this argument. Humans practice all sorts of behaviors, and they don't consult the blueprints before deciding if their favorite activity is 'intended' or not. Personally I don't think it's productive to debate whether homosexuality is 'natural' or not, since it has occured naturally. If homosexuality was in any way detrimental to the survival of the species, it would have disappeared just as naturally.

[Mistress9Nine]

On topic, I hate this arguement they keep making. If they'd say "We
don't want to implement gay romances." that'd be fine. But to say that a
character that is open to interpretation from gender, to morals and all
that, but say that "Oh noes! Shepard isn't gay, he isn't written to be
gay!" is the stupidest thing I ever heard.

Masticetobbacco wrote...
...

I just don't get one thing. If the mods don't mind your banner, how the hell is it that the site ****s the 4 letter n-word. It seems silly.

Modifié par Mistress9Nine, 08 avril 2010 - 07:42 .

[Ryzaki]

ImperialOperative wrote...

casedawgz wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

People who say they watch Yaoi for the loving relationships are like people who say they read playboy for the great articles.

While it's certainly true that most people read Playboy for bewbs, it DOES have great articles. Farenheit 451? That classic of American literature? First published in Playboy.

So it works exaclty how I stated.  Some people do look into for some good stuff for both things, most people look at it for the candy in both things.

And that makes it different from Straight romances how?

[jlb524]

ImperialOperative wrote...

It's for pooping, I should know, I've pooped quite a bit in my time.

Also, if you plug it so that you stop pooping, you die. 

Therefore, things aren't supposed to go in there.

Also, ask a gastroenterologist about anal sex.

What's your mouth for then?  It's only 'biological' purpose is in digestion.  Why is it used during sex?

NO KISSING ALLOWED PEOPLE!!

Gawd, these arguments are comical.

[Bucky_McLachlan]

Bucky_McLachlan wrote...

Bucky_McLachlan wrote...

The only things Bioware needs to explain in regard to gay Shep is this.

Well and this. Because why they didn't have gay Shep in the first game but the files are present in both games is just odd.

Also, the first video is pretty damn funny.

I guess people don't care that Bioware bothered to record all the dialogue for a gay Shepard/Alenko romance but they're now saying it's a "narrative decision and if he were gay it'd be breaking character blahblah".

[Bucky_McLachlan]

Bucky_McLachlan wrote...

Bucky_McLachlan wrote...

The only things Bioware needs to explain in regard to gay Shep is this.

Well and this. Because why they didn't have gay Shep in the first game but the files are present in both games is just odd.

Also, the first video is pretty damn funny.

I guess people don't care that Bioware bothered to record all the dialogue for a gay Shepard/Alenko romance but they're now saying it's a "narrative decision and if he were gay it'd be breaking character blahblah".

[KainrycKarr]

Siansonea II wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Lamiea wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...
Gay can be considered a genetic disorder based on the fact that what they do is not compatible by nature.

Actually, no, that is not correct.

Gay sex between two men = you know what it is. The hole is not designed by nature for that purpose. Therefore, not compatible.


Please distinguish what I'm saying. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying that by nature, it is considered a disorder, abnormal, unnatural.

This does not make it wrong. I am just explaining.

By this reasoning, cunnilingus and fellatio are also unnatural acts. The human mouth was designed to take in food, air and to speak, not to stimulate the genitalia of another human. The fact that such behaviors are quite common, and that anal intercourse is not practiced exclusively by male homosexuals, takes the wind out of this argument. Humans practice all sorts of behaviors, and they don't consult the blueprints before deciding if their favorite activity is 'intended' or not. Personally I don't think it's productive to debate whether homosexuality is 'natural' or not, since it has occured naturally. If homosexuality was in any way detrimental to the survival of the species, it would have disappeared just as naturally.

Yes, they are unnatural acts.

For the love of god, I am not saying it's wrong. I am saying its NOT what was ORIGINALLY INTENDED.

It is a GENETIC ABNORMALITY. It's one of those things that just HAPPENS during evolution.

Quite being so flipping defensive. And, as I said, it is NOT detrimental to the survival of the species, because of how UNCOMMON it is.

[Siansonea]

ReconTeam wrote...

I think actually censoring the word **** is a bit extreme (or is that done automatically?

Siansonea II wrote...
It appears you support eugenics, the genetic modification of humanity to remove 'undesirable' traits, is that fair to say? You should know before you answer that this topic is closely related to **** Germany and topics like ethnic cleansing. Undesirable traits are quite subjective, let us not forget. Not every variation from the standard template is a disease or a disorder, merely a variation.

And by virtue of your first fact, you argue that inclusion of homosexual content in ME2 DLC or ME3 shouldn't have an impact on sales. In that case, why not let those who want it, have it? Why is it so important for you that your Shepard not even have the possibility of establishing a homosexual romantic connection? Are you concerned that your Shepard will make choices against your will?

**** party eugenics involved mass murder and sterilization. I don't support any such initiative through those means. I don't believe removing genetic disorders and conditions through modern technology is comparable. Especially when you consider all sorts of nasty things like cancer have some amount of genetic probability linked with them. From the ME codex it appears that most people are genetically treated, possibly at an early stage of development before they are born. It may sound cruel to call things like autism or homosexuality "disorders" but I cannot imagine any parent choosing not to treat such conditions if possible.

And yes you do need limits, or somebody would decide that everybody must look like Mr. Clean, but we aren't talking about that.

I think the fact that you equate homosexuality with cancer and even autism illustrates your viewpoint sufficiently. I believe we all know exactly where you stand on the issue.

Does anyone else find it odd that the common name of the Third Reich political party is automatically censored?

[KainrycKarr]

jlb524 wrote...

ImperialOperative wrote...

It's for pooping, I should know, I've pooped quite a bit in my time.

Also, if you plug it so that you stop pooping, you die. 

Therefore, things aren't supposed to go in there.

Also, ask a gastroenterologist about anal sex.

What's your mouth for then?  It's only 'biological' purpose is in digestion.  Why is it used during sex?

NO KISSING ALLOWED PEOPLE!!

Gawd, these arguments are comical.

Noone is arguing that this stuff is wrong or shouldn't be done! I'm arguing that it is an abnormality! That's ALL!

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

RedTracer7 wrote...
Bioware, you have some explaining to do.

RedTracer7 wrote...
Ray Muzyka: "Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional. 

We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But that's by choice. "

Well this sounds like an explanation to me...

But not a good one, particularly since it doesn't address why FemShep can be gay/bisexual but MShep can't. Pre-defined is pre-defined, not 'pre-defined if your character has a penis, but less so if they have a vagina.'

[jlb524]

KainrycKarr wrote...

For the love of god, I am not saying it's wrong. I am saying its NOT what was ORIGINALLY INTENDED.

Intended by whom?  Nature has no INTENT.

[Lamiea]

KainrycKarr wrote...
I'm just saying that by nature, it is considered a disorder, abnormal, unnatural.

And yet that does not prove your "genetic disorder" argument and, instead, is nothing more than the oft-used, at least in these kinds of "debates," naturalistic fallacy. Also, by saying it is a , quote, "disorder" you have already made a moral Judgment as that term has a medical definition - this one: A genetic disorder is a disease, or illness, caused by a different form of a gene called a variation, or an alteration of a gene called a mutation. In other words, no, at the moment the scientific and medical communities would not agree with you when you say that homosexuality is a "genetic disorder" as it is not identified as an malady - please look up the meaning of the terms you're tossing around before posting.

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

For the love of god, I am not saying it's wrong. I am saying its NOT what was ORIGINALLY INTENDED.

Intended by whom?  Nature has no INTENT.

Oh come on jilb you know Nature somehow has the ability to think and plan.

[jlb524]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Noone is arguing that this stuff is wrong or shouldn't be done! I'm arguing that it is an abnormality! That's ALL!

You're using naturalistic fallacies here.  'Is' does not imply 'ought'.   I don't like your argument style.

Oh, I'm totally going to refer to kissing as an 'abnormality' from now on.  I like that one.

[casedawgz]

Gotta go with Kainy here. He's not being disrespectful. There's nothing wrong with it on a moral level, but it IS a genetic abnormality. Cyclops' eye beams are a genetic abnormality too, and those are awesome. People see the words "genetic abnormality" and immediatly think they're being insulted.