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[sylvanaerie]

Alyka wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...
There is the whole Flemeth angle too.  Is Morrigan doing her mother's bidding or is she operating on her own when she tells the PC not to follow her?  Too many what ifs and Flemeth being an immortal has too many centuries to plan whatever she does AND she seems to have the gift of precognition.  (She didn't seem at all surprised to see my PC confronting her at her hut in the middle of the game sans Morrigan).  What if ALL of this was a plan to get Flemeth an Old God soul/body whatever so she won't have to possess Morrigan.  And if Morrigan still planned on using the child for self preservation she wouldn't want you knowing she was going to hand it over to Flemeth.  Or perhaps she was attempting to run and hide with the baby to use for her own purposes (she DOES have Flemeth's grimoire now assuming you did Morrigan's companion quest). 

Or, she might have lied to Morrigan about the ritual so that way the Old God possesses Morrigan and then Flemeth can possess her.

GehnTheGrey wrote...
It is also said that to become a member of the Dragon Cult, you must imbibe the Blood of a Dragon, and that this almost always causes a physical change in the individual. Morrigan's eyes have been a possible suggestion as to her change.

Kolgrim's eyes don't look different.Then again, maybe it effects everyone differently.Remember, Morrigan was born to Flemeth who is possessed by a demon. That may be why her eyes look different.

odiedragon wrote...
Also, if Flemeth is an Old God, she's sure not doing much with her powers.  Living in a swamp, raising daughters to be her next host, and basically just existing?  Wouldn't a God/powerful demon want to do more than just exist?

A perfect place to get lost in.She may also be biding her time until the blights have ended so she or Morrigan can start an uprising for mages who's leader is an abomination/possessed by an Old God, or a child who is born with the soul of an Old God.

Addai67 wrote...
Well, the "song" comes from the imprisoned old gods and that draws the darkspawn, or so people think.  When the darkspawn find them, they taint them and then the old god becomes an archdemon and begins talking to the horde and directing it.  But you could interpret the song as communication, too.

When you go to Flemeth's hut to slay her she says:
"Lovely Morrigan has at last found someone willing to dance to her tune. Such enchanting music she plays, wouldn't you say?"
I wonder if that's a hint to either her or Morrigan that they have something to do with the Old God/archdemon.

LOL actually I also brought up that idea in another thread on the boards somewhere that the ritual actually gets the Old Soul in Morrigan not the fetus and the fetus is the means by which it is drawn to her.  Making her immeasurably more powerful come possession time. Where Flemeth is concerned I would put nothing past her. 

[Crixt]

It will be a huge letdown if her story is never delved into deeper, she's a pretty rich character.







click the sig below plx!

[Master Shiori]

Crixt wrote...

It will be a huge letdown if her story is never delved into deeper, she's a pretty rich character.

Considering the huge potential of the Dark Ritual storyline, I find it hard to imagine Bioware would just drop it after DA:O.

Most likely they plan to continue that story in another expansion or something.

[Sabriana]

sylvanaerie wrote...

LOL actually I also brought up that idea in another thread on the boards somewhere that the ritual actually gets the Old Soul in Morrigan not the fetus and the fetus is the means by which it is drawn to her.  Making her immeasurably more powerful come possession time. Where Flemeth is concerned I would put nothing past her. 

Wow, what a great idea. It would make sense, you know. She does say that she needs the old soul for 'freedom'. I've always wondered about that. It would take many years (usually) for a child to grow into a powerful witch/god-thing/mage, and Morrigan told  my PCs that it might take Flemeth a few years to find another host and some more time to resume her power. That still would have been a gamble because Flemeth could well be her old self again before the child can grow into power.

However, if the archdemon soul went into Morrigan, and she somehow took it over.... well, interesting. She would have to take it over, because a body can't hold two souls afaik. Otherwise she would no longer be Morrigan, right? She would be the old god.

Deserves some pondering though.

[Herr Uhl]

If it was drawn to Morrigan, she'd be obliterated, just like any GW. If she planned to keep the fetus inside her with some magic to somehow pull power from it, that might work.



If Morrigan has a soul that is.

[KnightofPhoenix]

imported_beer wrote...

My question is similar but related.

Morrigan says the child is created with the taint and that is what draws the old god's essence to it instead of the Warden.

However if the taint is what corrupts the old god, so how does it give Him/Her a chance to be born uncorrupted?

The magic involved in the ritual I guess.

Or maybe it's two taints (Archdemon and baby) negating one another. Except that the baby doesn't die like a Warden.

I don't know. A wizard did it.

[Herr Uhl]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

imported_beer wrote...

My question is similar but related.


Morrigan says the child is created with the taint and that is what draws the old god's essence to it instead of the Warden.

However if the taint is what corrupts the old god, so how does it give Him/Her a chance to be born uncorrupted?

No, she says a child will be created without a taint.

The child gets the taint from the father, which is why she needs GW booty. The question is why and how that initial taint disappears.

[Sabriana]

I know that D. Gaider stated that a fetus does not get tainted from the GW parent. I know I read that, I am very, very sure.

I really should start noting down where he comments on various lore.

[KnightofPhoenix]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...
No, she says a child will be created without a taint.

That's not what I understood. The child needs to be tainted in order to draw the soul of the Old God. 

[sylvanaerie]

I'm thinking part of the voodoo is that the child will be born free of the taint by the time it is born (she does say the soul will be drawn to the taint like a beacon) and I was guessing whatever magic she used for it to be born free would remove the taint prior to birthing.



Too many what if's. Both her and Flemeth are too secretive.



"Makes my nose twitch" as Daveth would say.

[Herr Uhl]

Sabriana wrote...

I know that D. Gaider stated that a fetus does not get tainted from the GW parent. I know I read that, I am very, very sure.
I really should start noting down where he comments on various lore.

You mean this?

David Gaider wrote...

tigrina wrote...
And Morrigan's ritual is in part to ensure that there is some baby and it is actually tainted, right? Till the magic with the archdemonoldgoldsoulthingy takes place.

It might not be tainted. All she needs is a connection to the Archdemon's soul in order to draw it. If the baby is actually corrupted, then yes -- that would have taken some special magic in order to make it so.

[KnightofPhoenix]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...
No, she says a child will be created without a taint.

That's not what I understood. The child needs to be tainted in order to draw the soul of the Old God. 

oh right, my bad. I forgot

But she also mentions something that the child will be reborn without the taint.

The child will not have the taint after the soul of the old God is within him / her.
But I think the baby has to have the taint ino rder to draw the old god in the first place. Otherwise, why would Morrigan need to do it with a Grey wArden, when she could do it with anyone else. Like Oghren. 

EDIT: ninjaed. Well Gaider's comment makes it even more vague. What "connection" to the Old God?

I am going to learn from Qunari wisdom here. Just stop asking questions and accept it. A wizard did it (literraly).  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 avril 2010 - 02:17 .

[sylvanaerie]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...
No, she says a child will be created without a taint.

That's not what I understood. The child needs to be tainted in order to draw the soul of the Old God. 

oh right, my bad. I forgot

But she also mentions something that the child will be reborn without the taint.

The child will not have the taint after the soul of the old God is within him / her.
But I think the baby has to have the taint ino rder to draw the old god in the first place. Otherwise, why would Morrigan need to do it with a Grey wArden, when she could do it with anyone else. Like Oghren. 

EDIT: ninjaed. Well Gaider's comment makes it even more vague. What "connection" to the Old God?

I am going to learn from Qunari wisdom here. Just stop asking questions and accept it. A wizard did it (literraly).  

Considering her choices are possible male PC or Alistair, I think she almost would prefer Oghren to Alistair  if the PC declines.

[Sabriana]

That's the one, thanks Herr Uhl.

So this makes it even more odd. Perhaps I should re-read that thread, it seems to concern babies and taint and stuffeth. I'm glad you found it, Herr Uhl



Oh my stars, D. Gaider's post after that one is hilarious.

[sylvanaerie]

Sabriana wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

LOL actually I also brought up that idea in another thread on the boards somewhere that the ritual actually gets the Old Soul in Morrigan not the fetus and the fetus is the means by which it is drawn to her.  Making her immeasurably more powerful come possession time. Where Flemeth is concerned I would put nothing past her. 

Wow, what a great idea. It would make sense, you know. She does say that she needs the old soul for 'freedom'. I've always wondered about that. It would take many years (usually) for a child to grow into a powerful witch/god-thing/mage, and Morrigan told  my PCs that it might take Flemeth a few years to find another host and some more time to resume her power. That still would have been a gamble because Flemeth could well be her old self again before the child can grow into power.

However, if the archdemon soul went into Morrigan, and she somehow took it over.... well, interesting. She would have to take it over, because a body can't hold two souls afaik. Otherwise she would no longer be Morrigan, right? She would be the old god.

Deserves some pondering though.

There is also the discussion with Wynne about abominations and if the human retains any of their sentience.  Uldred certainly seemed to be Uldred still (though the demon says "I am Uldred and not Uldred").  Something of the original may survive I think.  And Morrigan was using magick not just being possessed.  *Edit* I would definitely put it in the realm of possibility anyway.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 09 avril 2010 - 02:24 .

[Sabriana]

Aha! That was another part I was looking for. All in the same thread Herr dug up. I love marvelous coincidences:

D. Gaider wrote...

Ulicus wrote...

Either way, I assume there's a reason that the baby is a "beacon" above and beyond the nearest tainted creatures.

Right -- if the only reason that the Archdemon is drawn is because the baby is tainted, then she would have needed to be the one nearest to the Archdemon when the deathblow was made. She doesn't -- so clearly there is some other process at work. I suppose Morrigan could have gone into an in-depth discussion of how this works, but I think that a) that would have been cumbersome and being vague was probably in her best interest.

[RazorrX]

From reading what David said, and then guessing massively . . .



Since the child is born without the taint, the connection is that the grey warden (who has the taint) is the father. Thus using dark arts as the archdemon dies its spirit locks on to the father warden and starts to move in that direction - however at that moment the ritual diverts it from the intended host and into the unborn and/or Morrigan via the connection of DNA/fatherhood into a body that has no taint, thus purifying it.

[danesp2012]

O well, she's hot and I hope she shows up again.

[TimeLordCat]

All of the above. Depends who you import.

[sylvanaerie]

RazorrX wrote...

From reading what David said, and then guessing massively . . .

Since the child is born without the taint, the connection is that the grey warden (who has the taint) is the father. Thus using dark arts as the archdemon dies its spirit locks on to the father warden and starts to move in that direction - however at that moment the ritual diverts it from the intended host and into the unborn and/or Morrigan via the connection of DNA/fatherhood into a body that has no taint, thus purifying it.

Actually I like that explanation!  Good idea RazorrX

[Alyka]

Morrigan admits to you during the Dark Ritual that her and Flemeth planned it all along and that's why Flemeth saved you from the tower.
Before that, Morrigan just happens to know that Flemeth's Grimoire is in the Circle of Magi and wants you to fetch it.
Upon reading it, she finds out how Flemeth prolongs her life.
Morrigan then doesn't think that it's Flemeth's real grimoire and wants you to fetch the real one too.
Seems like Flemeth purposely let the Circle get ahold of the fake grimoire so that Morrigan would find it.
My speculation is that either Flemeth double-crossed Morrigan (which I wouldn't put it past her), or Morrigan knew about everything all along.
It seems a little too convienient.

Modifié par Alyka, 10 avril 2010 - 04:16 .