163 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

He was a traitor, this put him in a position that made his death necessary.  His intentions were honorable but his actions were his downfall.  Cerberus actions put him in that position, but his invistigation led him to be a traitor.  Did he deserve to die because of his actions?  Not necessarily.  But did he force the hands of those who knew more?  Yes

Cerberus killed his men. This was the instigator. They dropped off the face of the earth, and this forced HIM into action. He wasn't going to not investigate his missing troops. There was hand forcing, but not by Kahoku.

He was not a traitor. He had his loyalties in the right place. We don't even know if he was really going to follow through with his deal with the Shadow Broker.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Nightwriter wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

He was a traitor, this put him in a position that made his death necessary.  His intentions were honorable but his actions were his downfall.  Cerberus actions put him in that position, but his invistigation led him to be a traitor.  Did he deserve to die because of his actions?  Not necessarily.  But did he force the hands of those who knew more?  Yes

Cerberus killed his men. This was the instigator. They dropped off the face of the earth, and this forced HIM into action. He wasn't going to not investigate his missing troops. There was hand forcing, but not by Kahoku.

He was not a traitor. He had his loyalties in the right place. We don't even know if he was really going to follow through with his deal with the Shadow Broker.

We do know he contacted them.  But because he himself believed that Cerberus was a "rogue" entity of the Alliance, promising such information was dangerous.

I'll put it this way, the ones who killed his men deserved to die.  Kahoku for being an intelligence risk had to be dealt with.

[Erinlana]

Cerberus seems more corporate then military , they will do anything to get to their Goal.



The Allience on the other hand is your typical by the book military chain of command that has protocols but in past side missions (ME1) the allience have set up certain people for you too kill or withheld information..



I guess People see Cerberus as totalitaristic then anything esle..

[AntiChri5]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Wrexdot wrote...

Yeah, now give Normandy back to Cerberus. Alliance didn't cared about Shepard after dead.

I'm done with you Alliance types.

Then I want all my upgrades, minerals and the collector base back.

They will also have to give back the 48 marines they murdered on Akuze the dozens of children they tortured to death, all 3 colonies they destroyed, the quarians they murdered, a dedicated admiral, a trustworthy politician (good luck finding one of those) and......

You know what? Cerberus should feel lucky that the Normandy is all we take, because soon i will be taking a good deal more from the illusive man.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Erinlana wrote...

Cerberus seems more corporate then military , they will do anything to get to their Goal.

The Allience on the other hand is your typical by the book military chain of command that has protocols but in past side missions (ME1) the allience have set up certain people for you too kill or withheld information..

I guess People see Cerberus as totalitaristic then anything esle..

I personally wouldn't trust either whether they are currently linked or not

[Bucky_McLachlan]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Geth Knight wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Geth Knight wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

He was prepared to sell out information confidentialof the Alliance to agents of the Shadow Broker in order to satisfy his needs in his investigation of Cerberus.  HE got what was coming to him.

What? No he wasn't.

Now I remember, that wasn't info on the Alliance the agent wanted. Kohaku promised Cerberus intel in exchange. Doesn't make Kohaku a traitor

That would be like a army official selling out information of the NSA to the KGB

Not really. Do the equivalent of that in ME would make Kohaku a traitor. With Cerberus no longer within the Chain O'Command of the SA, their files would not be Alliance files anymore. Besides the Shadow Broker isn't with some enemy of the SA, SB is its own separate entity with its little fingers in everything. Only good example I can think of would be Charlescomm from Erfworld.

That is more correct, but it would be like selling out a top secret part of the NSA to a spy agency.  SB is an information broker and could sell that information to the highest bidder putting the Alliance at a disadvantage.

If an American sold sensitive military intelligence to another country they would be tried for treason. No ifs ands or buts about it.

Also some of you people really seem to be confusing issues of morality with law, totally separate entities. And hatred is such a strong emotion. Save it for when someone personally does something to you or someone close to you. Srsly. Same goes for love. If they ain't paying your bills or putting bread on your table let it go.

Modifié par Bucky_McLachlan, 07 avril 2010 - 10:53 .

[Nightwriter]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

We do know he contacted them.  But because he himself believed that Cerberus was a "rogue" entity of the Alliance, promising such information was dangerous.

I'll put it this way, the ones who killed his men deserved to die.  Kahoku for being an intelligence risk had to be dealt with.

My only disagreement with you is that Kahoku's death should not be listed among Cerberus's crimes.

If Kahoku was to be dealt with, it should've been by the Alliance, not Cerberus - not that it would've been fair to put him on trial when the Alliance itself was less than innocent in dealing with Cerberus in the first place.

But Cerberus killing him, that was a crime. That was murder, and it was wrong.

[RyrineaNara]

Bucky_McLachlan wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Geth Knight wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Geth Knight wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

He was prepared to sell out information confidentialof the Alliance to agents of the Shadow Broker in order to satisfy his needs in his investigation of Cerberus.  HE got what was coming to him.

What? No he wasn't.

Now I remember, that wasn't info on the Alliance the agent wanted. Kohaku promised Cerberus intel in exchange. Doesn't make Kohaku a traitor

That would be like a army official selling out information of the NSA to the KGB

Not really. Do the equivalent of that in ME would make Kohaku a traitor. With Cerberus no longer within the Chain O'Command of the SA, their files would not be Alliance files anymore. Besides the Shadow Broker isn't with some enemy of the SA, SB is its own separate entity with its little fingers in everything. Only good example I can think of would be Charlescomm from Erfworld.

That is more correct, but it would be like selling out a top secret part of the NSA to a spy agency.  SB is an information broker and could sell that information to the highest bidder putting the Alliance at a disadvantage.

If an American sold sensitive military intelligence to another country they would be tried for treason. No ifs ands or buts about it.

Also some of you people really seem to be confusing issues of morality with law, totally separate entities. And hatred is such a strong emotion. Save it for when someone personally does something to you or someone close to you. Srsly. Same goes for love. If they ain't paying your bills or putting bread on your table let it go.

Tell that too the president who sold miltary equiment to china  :innocent:

[Onyx Jaguar]

Nightwriter wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

We do know he contacted them.  But because he himself believed that Cerberus was a "rogue" entity of the Alliance, promising such information was dangerous.

I'll put it this way, the ones who killed his men deserved to die.  Kahoku for being an intelligence risk had to be dealt with.

My only disagreement with you is that Kahoku's death should not be listed among Cerberus's crimes.

If Kahoku was to be dealt with, it should've been by the Alliance, not Cerberus - not that it would've been fair to put him on trial when the Alliance itself was less than innocent in dealing with Cerberus in the first place.

But Cerberus killing him, that was a crime. That was murder, and it was wrong.

Well that could be the case, regardless he would have needed to be dealt with.  However if Cerberus is still part of the Alliance, which I think it is to an extent, and also from what we have seen the Alliance wouldn't be above this, then it would have been sanctioned by the Alliance.  Hacket basically has you eliminate someone in ME 1 if you go renegade, this would have been a similar circumstance except it would be Cerberus operatives handling the job.

EDIT:  Also Shepard is pretty much above the law taking out those operatives would have been problematic for the Alliance and Cerberus as you can give the data to the SB.  But since Shepard is quite a bit more valuable in the short term anyway they could allow Shepard to live.  

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 07 avril 2010 - 11:07 .

[Erinlana]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Erinlana wrote...

Cerberus seems more corporate then military , they will do anything to get to their Goal.

The Allience on the other hand is your typical by the book military chain of command that has protocols but in past side missions (ME1) the allience have set up certain people for you too kill or withheld information..

I guess People see Cerberus as totalitaristic then anything esle..

I personally wouldn't trust either whether they are currently linked or not

But the allience are equivalent to today's modern navy , but then again i not saying
there isnt corruption within that organization at the end of the day,
they are a goverment armed service... but id trust allience at the end
of the day.. just my sad little thought

[DPSSOC]

Has Cerberus done terrible things, yes. However have they done anything terrible to you, Shepard, personally? Unless you're a sole survivor the answer is not really. So 2 out of 3 Shepards shouldn't have a problem with Cerberus.



Also they brought you back to life and gave you a pimped out ride (and the freedom to further pimp out said ride), add to that the fact that they pay you for the work you're doing and that's got to be worth something.

[Zulu_DFA]

Funny thing: all known about a politician is that (s)he gets killed by Cerberus, and people think (s)he was the rare trustworthy one.

[Vaenier]

They brought you back from the gates of hell. Its funny how quickly people forget.

[MassAffected]

I'm not saying that Cerberus is good/bad because I'm on the fence again, but they didn't bring Shep back out of the goodness of their hearts. They brought him back to use him, and not for any noble reason.

Modifié par MassAffected, 07 avril 2010 - 11:21 .

[Zulu_DFA]

From beyond the gates of hell. (No wonder, though. They are Cerberus after all...)

[AntiChri5]

DPSSOC wrote...

Has Cerberus done terrible things, yes. However have they done anything terrible to you, Shepard, personally? Unless you're a sole survivor the answer is not really. So 2 out of 3 Shepards shouldn't have a problem with Cerberus.

So if it wasn't done to you you have no right to hate something horrific or try to put a stop to it?

Absoloutely bloody pathetic.

[AntiChri5]

MassAffected wrote...

I'm not saying that Cerberus is good/bad because I'm on the fence again, but they didn't bring Shep back out of the goodness of their hearts. They brought him back to use him, and not for any noble reason.

I am always surprised at how often "they brought Shep back" comes up in the Cerberus debates.

[AntiChri5]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Funny thing: all known about a politician is that (s)he gets killed by Cerberus, and people think (s)he was the rare trustworthy one.

TIM was unable to buy a politician so they killed them.

That sounds more like a criminal gang than anything else to me.

[RyrineaNara]

I too am surprised at how often they brought Shepard back is used as argument. He was unable to buy a politician, so they had the politician killed. They also had someone kidnapped, and put reaper tech in him just because Cerberus owner didn't like him.