137 réponses à ce sujet

[Commander Marrek S]

FrostGun wrote...

its $7 USD i lol at people who complain about paying for this ... Support your developers why dont ya.. also, 560 points is purchasable. Exactly.

Right, because we have jobs.

[CatatonicMan]

FrostGun wrote...

its $7 USD i lol at people who complain about paying for this ... Support your developers why dont ya.. also, 560 points is purchasable. Exactly.

I'd place its actual worth to be in the $3-4 range, even using several different price-estimating methods.

If they were charging what the content is worth, I probably wouldn't be opposed to buying it (even though I really dislike micro-transactions).

$7 may be a small amount, but I don't plan on letting myself be ripped off simply because the amounts are trivial.

Point of fact, I think that my signature explains it adequately.

Modifié par CatatonicMan, 08 avril 2010 - 01:56 .

[FrostGun]

Commander Marrek S wrote...

FrostGun wrote...

its $7 USD i lol at people who complain about paying for this ... Support your developers why dont ya.. also, 560 points is purchasable. Exactly.

Right, because we have jobs.

Lol touche..!!

[FrostGun]

scyphozoa wrote...

Yeah man, 3-4$ for Kasumi is a joke. not trying to be rude to you but that content is extremely high fidelity. Even if you didn't enjoy it, people had to spend time and resources to create it, and it shows in the quality.

You're entitled to your opinion but I would completely disagree that 3-4 dollars would be an appropriate price.

This. ^ .. I don't think $7 is overpriced.

[CatatonicMan]

scyphozoa wrote...

Yeah man, 3-4$ for Kasumi is a joke. not trying to be rude to you but that content is extremely high fidelity. Even if you didn't enjoy it, people had to spend time and resources to create it, and it shows in the quality.

You're entitled to your opinion but I would completely disagree that 3-4 dollars would be an appropriate price.

I take into consideration the relative pricing of the content to the game as a whole. If Kasumi was actually worth $7, ME2 should have cost more along the lines of $80-90 than $50.

Even if Kasumi was leagues ahead of the rest of the game, I still wouldn't expect to pay more than $5.

Modifié par CatatonicMan, 08 avril 2010 - 02:06 .

[javierabegazo]

scyphozoa wrote...



this to me is inaccurate. All video games, no matter their quality cost 59.99 on consoles and 49.99 on PC. This is the industry standard, so it is an unabalnced scale to use. There are 4-hour garbage games priced for 59.99 - the exact same price as Bioware games with 50-100 hours of content. You have to scale stuff to quality man, minute-to-dollar conversions are worthless IMO.

again, your dollars so your call, but 1 hour of Bioware quality content is better than a 20 hour garbage game, IMO.

QFT

Gauging the quality of a game by PLAYTIME, something that is so finnicky and subject to fluctuation is just silly.

[ToJKa1]

CatatonicMan wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

Yeah man, 3-4$ for Kasumi is a joke. not trying to be rude to you but that content is extremely high fidelity. Even if you didn't enjoy it, people had to spend time and resources to create it, and it shows in the quality.

You're entitled to your opinion but I would completely disagree that 3-4 dollars would be an appropriate price.

I take into consideration the relative pricing of the content to the game as a whole. If Kasumi was actually worth $7, ME2 should have cost more along the lines of $80-90 than $50.

Even if Kasumi was leagues ahead of the rest of the game, I still wouldn't expect to pay more than $5.

Not only overpriced, but it encourages publishers to take even single-player games towards micro transaction or *shudder* pay-to-play model. I hope i am wrong, for the love of the biotic god i hope i am wrong, but i don't believe i am. See EA's plans for demos that cost money, how long before they start charging a fee for the use of the servers in C&C4 like DRM?

[RyuGuitarFreak]

IRMcGhee wrote...

You CAN buy exactly 560 points, silly people. Click on the "Expand Your Game" picture on the upper left of the screen, under your profile menu, and you can buy 400/560/800/1600 points. Now apologise to those nice Bioware people

Oh, now I feel dumb.

[Lord_Tirian]

CatatonicMan wrote...

I take into consideration the relative pricing of the content to the game as a whole. If Kasumi was actually worth $7, ME2 should have cost more along the lines of $80-90 than $50.

Bulk discount?

[Hyperion_500]

Okay, this is starting to become a forum slugfest, not what i wanted when i started the thread, please keep it civil, no more broadsides.

We've established that Cerberus Network will not cover all DLC, that's fine, next question I'm asking:

Could Bioware/EA make a simple pre order (like) system for ME2 DLC, using actual currency, so I don't have to use my card several times? Answer is yes with bio points, but i really don't want to use that system: lack of actual oversight

1, Bio points are not legal tender, meaning if they get stolen before the DLC i want is released (eg. a hacked account, which can happen, even if i'm careful) Bioware/EA can -legally- just shrug their shoulders and walk off. (I'm certain they'd have more ethics of course, but i can't actually bring them to court for that) And there's no actual way I could go after them for that. (Yes, they can say they'll look into it, but that doesn't mean i'll actually get my points back) since it's not legal tender, no law enforcement needs to get involved, even if they catch the hacker (they may just ban him/her depending on how they got into my account.

It's true, neither company can make legal tender which in this case is an inherant flaw in the system (unless they don't want to ever have to deal with FBI/equivelent law enforcement for investigating hackers and actual theft from player accounts, in which case it's perfect). (syntax correction)

2, Also since you've already paid for bio points, you've already paid for a service (service being gaining bio points), if the points suddenly become worthless or 'dissapear' there's nothing you can do. just hope it's a temporary glitch.

3, If i never buy another Bio/EA game with DLC, any extra points i buy but don't spend are esentially unused money, i can't get a refund for those points, i'm forced to pay money that's never acually used. (eg. if i get the 160 point  mesh pack, min deposit is 400 points or something)

concluded: EA/Bio, even with paying for every DLC, i really want actual prices in USD, direct payment, so i don't get cheated, even by accident. i don't see any reason why they can't actually do that. it seems the most transparent way to do it, even if 'outdated'.

Modifié par Hyperion_500, 08 avril 2010 - 02:45 .

[FrostGun]

Software development does cost a lot of money. More so the maintenance side than anything (ie patches). In the end, its your dollar and your opinion. BW does not force you to pay for the DLC. Additionally they have been giving out free ones.

But for me personally, I think kasumi is well worth the 7$.

[Hyperion_500]

scyphozoa wrote...

Hyperion it sounds like you want EA to make less profits to make your experience more comfortable.

I don't disagree with you but I think asking a company to make less profit for any reason is ridiculous. We can't even get companies that pollute earth with toxic waste to stop because it will reduce their profits, there is no way that extra customer comfort is going to convince any company in the video game industry to cut their profit margin.

I'm not asking them to make less money at all, just to charge me using actual currency that they can be held accountable for. bio points can be written off since they aren't actual money.

[CatatonicMan]

javierabegazo wrote...

QFT

Gauging the quality of a game by PLAYTIME, something that is so finnicky and subject to fluctuation is just silly.

Playtime is, oddly enough, one of the few methods of measurement that is generally objective - it doesn't rely completely upon opinion and personal taste. As long as the general quality of the part and the whole are close, it is probably one of the better metrics to use.

Lord_Tirian wrote...
Bulk discount? 

Well, in a way...

Modifié par CatatonicMan, 08 avril 2010 - 02:56 .

[FrostGun]

Hyperion_500 wrote...

Okay, this is starting to become a forum slugfest, not what i wanted when i started the thread, please keep it civil, no more broadsides.

We've established that Cerberus Network will not cover all DLC, that's fine, next question I'm asking:

Could Bioware/EA make a simple pre order (like) system for ME2 DLC, using actual currency, so I don't have to use my card several times? Answer is yes with bio points, but i really don't want to use that system: lack of actual oversight

1, Bio points are not legal tender, meaning if they get stolen before the DLC i want is released (eg. a hacked account, which can happen, even if i'm careful) Bioware/EA can -legally- just shrug their shoulders and walk off. (I'm certain they'd have more ethics of course, but i can't actually bring them to court for that) And there's no actual way I could go after them for that. (Yes, they can say they'll look into it, but that doesn't mean i'll actually get my points back) since it's not legal tender, no law enforcement needs to get involved, even if they catch the hacker (they may just ban him/her depending on how they got into my account.

It's true, neither company can make legal tender which in this case is an inherant flaw in the system (unless they don't want to ever have to deal with FBI/equivelent law enforcement for investigating hackers and actual theft from player accounts, in which case it's perfect). (syntax correction)

2, Also since you've already paid for bio points, you've already paid for a service (service being gaining bio points), if the points suddenly become worthless or 'dissapear' there's nothing you can do. just hope it's a temporary glitch.

3, If i never buy another Bio/EA game with DLC, any extra points i buy but don't spend are esentially unused money, i can't get a refund for those points, i'm forced to pay money that's never acually used. (eg. if i get the 160 point  mesh pack, min deposit is 400 points or something)

concluded: EA/Bio, even with paying for every DLC, i really want actual prices in USD, direct payment, so i don't get cheated, even by accident. i don't see any reason why they can't actually do that. it seems the most transparent way to do it, even if 'outdated'.

This may be true, however there are also an advantage to this system.

For the same reason you have fraud detection on your Credit card, this bioware points purchasing will also help with the fraud side of things. Your computer can be infected with say a key logger anytime. Even if you are careful. Buy buying in bulk (BW points) you can eliminate the number of times you need to enter credit card details.

If you are planning to never purchase another game, this particular dlc can be bought with the exact number of points in a single purchase; you can purchase 560 points.

Maybe bioware can sell DLCs as a complete CD product. but i can guarantee you it will cost more (packaging distribution etc). And people will flock to the forums and complain about the price.. again..

[RAIDENKUN]

Hyperion_500 wrote...

Could Bioware/EA make a simple pre order (like) system for ME2 DLC, using actual currency, so I don't have to use my card several times? Answer is yes with bio points, but i really don't want to use that system: lack of actual oversight

1, Bio points are not legal tender, meaning if they get stolen before the DLC i want is released (eg. a hacked account, which can happen, even if i'm careful) Bioware/EA can -legally- just shrug their shoulders and walk off. (I'm certain they'd have more ethics of course, but i can't actually bring them to court for that) And there's no actual way I could go after them for that. (Yes, they can say they'll look into it, but that doesn't mean i'll actually get my points back) since it's not legal tender, no law enforcement needs to get involved, even if they catch the hacker (they may just ban him/her depending on how they got into my account.

It's true, neither company can make legal tender which in this case is an inherant flaw in the system (unless they don't want to ever have to deal with FBI/equivelent law enforcement for investigating hackers and actual theft from player accounts, in which case it's perfect). (syntax correction)

2, Also since you've already paid for bio points, you've already paid for a service (service being gaining bio points), if the points suddenly become worthless or 'dissapear' there's nothing you can do. just hope it's a temporary glitch.

3, If i never buy another Bio/EA game with DLC, any extra points i buy but don't spend are esentially unused money, i can't get a refund for those points, i'm forced to pay money that's never acually used. (eg. if i get the 160 point  mesh pack, min deposit is 400 points or something)

concluded: EA/Bio, even with paying for every DLC, i really want actual prices in USD, direct payment, so i don't get cheated, even by accident. i don't see any reason why they can't actually do that. it seems the most transparent way to do it, even if 'outdated'.

I wholeheartedly agree that the bioware/Microsoft points system is a ludicrous measure for purchasing content, but sadly it's a system that is unlikely to change. All of the previous reasons are exactly why currency is converted into imaginary digital points so as to avoid legal controversy, prevent refunds, and add a further layer of separation from your actual currency when purchasing content. I've turned blue in the face criticizing microtransactions, but nobody seems to care. The typical excuses are "It's just a couple bucks, why don't you skip buying a bag of chips or pack of smokes;" "If you got a job you wouldn't complain;" "If you don't like it, don't buy it;" etc. As far as I can tell there's nothing that can be done other capitulate or give up on the game. Bioware only responds to folks on the forums if it's something they can defend. As far as I know, they're yet to address the concerns of those who oppose microtransactions.

[RAIDENKUN]

CatatonicMan wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

QFT

Gauging the quality of a game by PLAYTIME, something that is so finnicky and subject to fluctuation is just silly.

Playtime is, oddly enough, one of the few methods of measurement that is generally objective - it doesn't rely completely upon opinion and personal taste. As long as the general quality of the part and the whole are close, it is probably one of the better metrics to use.

And you're absolutely right. Time is the only reliable measurement of a game's quality compared to price. Graphics and entertainment value are entirely subjective whereas time is a measurable quantity. I'd call a $60 game that's 4 hours long fairly poor regardless of how pretty it looks or how exciting the plot is.

Modifié par RAIDENKUN, 08 avril 2010 - 03:02 .

[Reinholder]

RAIDENKUN wrote...
I wholeheartedly agree that the bioware/Microsoft points system is a ludicrous measure for purchasing content, but sadly it's a system that is unlikely to change. All of the previous reasons are exactly why currency is converted into imaginary digital points so as to avoid legal controversy, prevent refunds, and add a further layer of separation from your actual currency when purchasing content. I've turned blue in the face criticizing microtransactions, but nobody seems to care. The typical excuses are "It's just a couple bucks, why don't you skip buying a bag of chips or pack of smokes;" "If you got a job you wouldn't complain;" "If you don't like it, don't buy it;" etc. As far as I can tell there's nothing that can be done other capitulate or give up on the game. Bioware only responds to folks on the forums if it's something they can defend. As far as I know, they're yet to address the concerns of those who oppose microtransactions.

Furthermore to that, it's inane. I can't understand how parents, for example can encourage their kids to spend what essentially amounts to £15 just to equip an avatar - it's on that principle alone that I refuse to buy microsoft points. Honestly, I was a little dismayed when I discovered new ME2 DLC, RELEVANT DLC at that, and I can't play it. Now...don't get me wrong, I have no problem paying for the content, I'd just rather not pay microsoft and justify this current microsoft points system in the process. It's usually why I buy 360 games later, when they come with map packs and additional content on the disk, incidentally.

[FrostGun]

RAIDENKUN wrote...
I wholeheartedly agree that the bioware/Microsoft points system is a ludicrous measure for purchasing content, but sadly it's a system that is unlikely to change. All of the previous reasons are exactly why currency is converted into imaginary digital points so as to avoid legal controversy, prevent refunds, and add a further layer of separation from your actual currency when purchasing content. I've turned blue in the face criticizing microtransactions, but nobody seems to care. The typical excuses are "It's just a couple bucks, why don't you skip buying a bag of chips or pack of smokes;" "If you got a job you wouldn't complain;" "If you don't like it, don't buy it;" etc. As far as I can tell there's nothing that can be done other capitulate or give up on the game. Bioware only responds to folks on the forums if it's something they can defend. As far as I know, they're yet to address the concerns of those who oppose microtransactions.

Yes i do agree with you there. But as with my previous post i also see a couple of advantages with this system. I do believe however, the argument of "if you dotn like it dont buy it" is valid. you wouldn't tell and orange to turn into an apple because you dont like oranges, you go buy apples. So buy what you like.

that analogy might be terrible but it sounded good in my head XD

[FrostGun]

RAIDENKUN wrote...

And you're absolutely right. Time is the only reliable measurement of a game's quality compared to price. Graphics and entertainment value are entirely subjective whereas time is a measurable quantity. I'd call a $60 game that's 4 hours long fairly poor regardless of how pretty it looks or how exciting the plot is.

time is only one aspect of gaming.

2 games can both be 2 hours long but i may like one over the other. similarly, i would rather play a quality 20 hour game than a crap 100 hour game. by your logic the 100 hour game is the better game.

Edit: assuming both games cost the same

Modifié par FrostGun, 08 avril 2010 - 03:07 .

[Reinholder]

FrostGun wrote...
Yes i do agree with you there. But as with my previous post i also see a couple of advantages with this system. I do believe however, the argument of "if you dotn like it dont buy it" is valid. you wouldn't tell and orange to turn into an apple because you dont like oranges, you go buy apples. So buy what you like.

that analogy might be terrible but it sounded good in my head XD

But it's not an addendum that works here - if the DLC adds a new character to your game, then it's a given that people are going to want to buy it - it's just that the microsoft points system is so inefficient...Especially for those living outside of the continental USA, because it's not like we even get half the content that they do. If they did? Great! No harm, no foul. I'd simply nip down to the shop, buy 2100 or 1200msp and use the rest to buy something like a game that was decent...unfortunately that just isn't the case. There's no justifiable cost in their provider service. Now again, if I could convert the msp into time for my live gold access, again, no harm, no foul.

Good idea in principle ms, poor in practice. It's actually something I'd expect out of apple.

[RAIDENKUN]

FrostGun wrote...

RAIDENKUN wrote...
I wholeheartedly agree that the bioware/Microsoft points system is a ludicrous measure for purchasing content, but sadly it's a system that is unlikely to change. All of the previous reasons are exactly why currency is converted into imaginary digital points so as to avoid legal controversy, prevent refunds, and add a further layer of separation from your actual currency when purchasing content. I've turned blue in the face criticizing microtransactions, but nobody seems to care. The typical excuses are "It's just a couple bucks, why don't you skip buying a bag of chips or pack of smokes;" "If you got a job you wouldn't complain;" "If you don't like it, don't buy it;" etc. As far as I can tell there's nothing that can be done other capitulate or give up on the game. Bioware only responds to folks on the forums if it's something they can defend. As far as I know, they're yet to address the concerns of those who oppose microtransactions.

Yes i do agree with you there. But as with my previous post i also see a couple of advantages with this system. I do believe however, the argument of "if you dotn like it dont buy it" is valid. you wouldn't tell and orange to turn into an apple because you dont like oranges, you go buy apples. So buy what you like.

that analogy might be terrible but it sounded good in my head XD

You're right, that analogy is terrible. In some sense the argument is valid, but specifically applied to the situation of DLC it doesn't hold its weight. A better analogy would be "I'll sell you a car (a video game) for regular price. Of course if you'd like windshield wipers, a horn, and a brake (DLC) you'll have to buy them separately. Oh and you'll need to buy them with an imaginary form of money that only my car dealership accepts. It shouldn't be a big deal though because you don't really NEED them to drive your car." Obviously this is far from a perfect analogy, but I think it starts to grasp the complexity of the situation. Nobody wants 85% of a video game. I want the whole thing. I didn't NEED Kasumi, but she adds to the experience.

[RAIDENKUN]

FrostGun wrote...

RAIDENKUN wrote...

And you're absolutely right. Time is the only reliable measurement of a game's quality compared to price. Graphics and entertainment value are entirely subjective whereas time is a measurable quantity. I'd call a $60 game that's 4 hours long fairly poor regardless of how pretty it looks or how exciting the plot is.

time is only one aspect of gaming.

2 games can both be 2 hours long but i may like one over the other. similarly, i would rather play a quality 20 hour game than a crap 100 hour game. by your logic the 100 hour game is the better game.

Edit: assuming both games cost the same

Again though, I believe your argument is simplified too much. Time can't measure which is a BETTER game - that's entirely subjective. What it measures is which game is a smarter buy. Buying a 100 hour game is a better BUY than a 20 hour game of equivalent price. It's like comparing ME2 with WoW. I'm not a huge fan of MMOs, but if World of Warcraft was $60 for a one-time purchase I would gladly buy it before ME2, bad graphics and all.