44 réponses à ce sujet

[Rolenka]

...pretty underwhelming. I realize our Warden has done it once (or twice) before, but it seemed so glossed over it really had no impact.

Oghren didn't help at all. A burp? Are you kidding me? It trivialized the entire thing.

And then it gets to Mhairi and you're like, "Well, someone has to die. Oh, there she goes."

Basicially in Origins I got used the game making me feel something, and so far Awakening hasn't even tried. I know I have a long way to go yet in the expansion, it's just disappointing is all.

[MidgardSerpentZ]

I thought the Joining (apart from the possibly dying part) was fairly mundane, even in Origins. Say two lines of dialogue, drink cup, and voila, you're a Grey Warden.

They're basically a sect that poisons their members!! Either you die immediately, or you die slowly while you gradually lose your sanity in the process. SOMEONE HAS TO STOP THESE LUNATICS.

Modifié par MidgardSerpentZ, 07 avril 2010 - 10:04 .

[Rolenka]

No, Bioware tried a lot harder in Origins. The camera angles, music, sound and graphical effects were much more dramatic. And you had to work at it. You had an opportunity to build anticipation.

In Awakening it was just a line of dialogue and you went and did it, and it was handled without any sort of reverence.

[Tirigon]

That´s because, basically the Joining IS nothing special, except that you might die. It is something that must be done to get new Wardens, but it´s nothing that´s considered to be an occasion worthy of celebration or something. Better to get done what must be done and move on. That´s the Warden way.

[Suron]

the entire expansion is a joke..



what happened to decided who to put through it and who not too as not everyone would survive...



when it's the same canned cutscene each time.

[Revya]

What about Avernus, where are the rest of my Power of Blood skills...



In conclusion yes in both cases it was underwhelming.

[Sesshomaru47]

No one said the thing. I'm pretty sure no one said the thing that Duncan had Alistair recite. Or if they did, they only did it once.

[Ulicus]

Sesshomaru47 wrote...

No one said the thing. I'm pretty sure no one said the thing that Duncan had Alistair recite. Or if they did, they only did it once.

Irritatingly, it's Varel (a non Warden) who says it.  I don't mind him knowing, but it's just plain weird for a non Warden to be saying "Join Us". 

As for Oghren's Joining... yeah, I didn't like that -- Rolenka's absolutely right to say it trivialised the whole thing. Humour is a big part of Dragon Age but, IMO, that wasn't the time or place for it. Though that's really my only complaint regarding Oghren in Awakening. While he often got on my nerves in Origins, I absolutely loved him this time around.

Modifié par Ulicus, 07 avril 2010 - 11:55 .

[LadyDamodred]

God, I hated Varel's delivery of the Joinging lines. Made me long for Alistair so damn much. -.-

[Thor Rand Al]

That's what bugged me the most, Varel wasn't a Grey Warden. How the heck did he even know about the Joining lines. I guess I could assume that 1 of the Grey Warden's that got killed before you get there told him but why, he's not a Warden lol. Alistair could of stuck around at least long enough to do that sheesh lmao. Or have one of the other Warden's live long enough to deliver the lines and then croak. Then it would of been up to Ander's or Oghren to deliver the lines for the rest of those that joined lol

[krasnoarmeets]

Tirigon wrote...

That´s because, basically the Joining IS nothing special, except that you might die. It is something that must be done to get new Wardens, but it´s nothing that´s considered to be an occasion worthy of celebration or something. Better to get done what must be done and move on. That´s the Warden way.

I disagree. The whole ceremony is taken very seriously in Origins. In fact, the Warden initiates have to undertake a quest to obtain fresh darkspawn blood, which is rather impractical given the danger they're sending them into, suggesting that this is part of the Joining. Granted, there are plenty of fresh darkspawn corpses on hand at the Vigil, but I have to agree that it's been trivialised in Awakening.
The way I see it, a recruit surviving the joining is worthy of celebration, which is supported by what Riordan states in Origins: chances of surviving the joining are slim, so cutting the Wardens off from recruiting isn't that big a deal. (When you talk to him about the Grey Warden cache in Denerim and he mentions the arch demon blood being missing)
The Warden way is to carefully choose the potential recruits based on the likelihood they'll survive the joining. The fact that Mhairi is the only one that dies is rather miraculous, to be honest, which only serves to trivialise it further.

Thor Rand Al wrote...

That's what bugged me the most,
Varel wasn't a Grey Warden. How the heck did he even know about the
Joining lines. I guess I could assume that 1 of the Grey Warden's that
got killed before you get there told him but why, he's not a Warden
lol. Alistair could of stuck around at least long enough to do that
sheesh lmao. Or have one of the other Warden's live long enough to
deliver the lines and then croak. Then it would of been up to Ander's
or Oghren to deliver the lines for the rest of those that joined
lol

It kinda stuck in my craw too. I thought wtf is Varel saying these things when he's not even a Warden? I think it would have been good for Alistair to do that part, but then it would be tricky if it's Anora that turns up instead... and why does he say that's the cup we've always used? It sounds like they're implying that Varel was sent by the Wardens and yet later they say that Varel is trusted in Amaranthine. Inconsistency again.

Modifié par krasnoarmeets, 08 avril 2010 - 12:42 .

[Majspuffen]

I wasn't surprised that Mhairi died. I knew someone had to, and Mhairi got one of those boring, "I'm a no one" portrait, like most companions have in our origins. I was really disappointed with the joining too in awakening, and Oghren's belch didn't help, no. I think it would have been more exciting if Oghren would've been affected like anyone else.



However, ignoring the lame joining rituals, the game itself was good.

[Thor Rand Al]

krasnoarmeets wrote...
 and why does he say that's the cup we've always used? It sounds like they're implying that Varel was sent by the Wardens and yet later they say that Varel is trusted in Amaranthine. Inconsistency again.

Lol for my game, it wasn't the cup I used for my Joining.  I still had it in my inventory lmao.  I know it was meant or Alistair but it didn't feel right giving it to him considering the cup was from my Joining so I kept it lol.

[Brockololly]

Yeah- the Joining in Awakening just lacks the production values and polish that it had in Origins. The same could be said of the whole expansion really- its like they had a story worthy of a whole sequel with the Architect and everything but then they just decided to make the abridged version for a game.



I mean I have no problem with people dying in the Joining, its just that the Mhairi's Joining in particular is done so laughably that I was just sort of scratching my head when it was over. Its just lacking the gravitas and "emotional engagement" of Origins- sure we didn't know much about Ser Jory or Daveth, but their deaths were handled a whole hell of alot better than Mhairi's. Literally, its like one second Mhairi is alive and then the next its like "Oh yeah, sorry Mhairi you're dead. Get the janitor to sweep her up."



And the whole notion of a non-Grey Warden doing the Joining is just goofy. I know they couldn't have the Warden do it due to being a mute, but really?

[krasnoarmeets]

Exactly. It stinks all over of EA. Churn it out quickly, so we can start sucking the dollars out of these saps...



Regarding Mhairi (and the other companions in general in Awakening for that matter) I have to say that the emotional connection you make with some of the Origins characters (and I'm not talking about romances) just isn't there. You can't even talk to them ffs! You get a one-liner like when you first pick up Ohgren in Origins until you build up his approval or whatever, but with these guys it just stayed like that. I liked having conversations with the companions in Origins! Not only having a convo when you click on the right tree or statue.. geez.

[Ulicus]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

Regarding Mhairi (and the other companions in general in Awakening for that matter) I have to say that the emotional connection you make with some of the Origins characters (and I'm not talking about romances) just isn't there. You can't even talk to them ffs! You get a one-liner like when you first pick up Ohgren in Origins until you build up his approval or whatever, but with these guys it just stayed like that. I liked having conversations with the companions in Origins! Not only having a convo when you click on the right tree or statue.. geez.

Here I disagree massively. NPC interaction and dialog was handled much better -- or at least more interestingly -- in Awakening than it was in Origins because it felt considerably less artificial. And the exploration/item/object based conversation system was awesome -- I just wish there had been more of it.

And you could get plenty of dialogs out of Oghren at the keep, anyway. You just had to click on the keg. I know I finished Awakening with a much stronger "emotional connection" with Oghren than I ever managed in Origins.

And at least this time I didn't have to listen to my party members saying the same thing over and over again once they'd run out of things to say.

Modifié par Ulicus, 08 avril 2010 - 12:31 .

[RazorrX]

It should have been dialog text with your warden commander saying the lines and handing the cup to the characters. Sure no voice over, but would have been more fitting.

[Ulicus]

RazorrX wrote...

It should have been dialog text with your warden commander saying the lines and handing the cup to the characters. Sure no voice over, but would have been more fitting.

I concur. NPC reactions, good music and the animations being well shot would have made up for the lack of main PC dialog.

[ZeRux]

Brockololly wrote...

And the whole notion of a non-Grey Warden doing the Joining is just goofy. I know they couldn't have the Warden do it due to being a mute, but really?

They could've easily done it even with Warden being mute, by making it like typical dialogue. But now when you mention it, I don't know why Bioware loves mute player characters in their games so much. Compare it with Deus Ex, where the player character would frequently start dialogues, end them, or speak on his own, without you having to choose a line (and everything with a voiceover) - none of this being common in Bioware games for some odd reason.

Of course in Deus Ex player character always had the same voice so lack of Warden voiceover in Dragon Age is understandable, as every possible response would need one audio for every voice you can choose during character creation but it still doesn't explain why NPCs often end dialogues with something bland ("Hmph!" and the likes) just for the sake of player character not ending them. Totally pointless and it makes you feel you're being talked at like a child, rather than being talked to.

[MutantSpleen]

Varel should have not been Varel, he should have been a surviving Orlesian Warden; having Varel perform the ritual was indeed horrible. A character named Varel could have been the seneschal but he should not have had anything to do with Grey warden affairs. It would have made more sense if the treasurer had done the Joining, she was some big-wig sent their by the First Warden Commander.



They should have made some kind of formula that determined which characters would live and which would die, and more should have died. That way it would have been more replayable as you would not know what you would end up having to work with. Each time you may get a different set of Wardens surviving.

[Ulicus]

ZeRux wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

And the whole notion of a non-Grey Warden doing the Joining is just goofy. I know they couldn't have the Warden do it due to being a mute, but really?

They could've easily done it even with Warden being mute, by making it like typical dialogue. But now when you mention it, I don't know why Bioware loves mute player characters in their games so much. Compare it with Deus Ex, where the player character would frequently start dialogues, end them, or speak on his own, without you having to choose a line (and everything with a voiceover) - none of this being common in Bioware games for some odd reason

"A BOMB!"

That's why.

[Brockololly]

RazorrX wrote...

It should have been dialog text with your warden commander saying the lines and handing the cup to the characters. Sure no voice over, but would have been more fitting.

Bingo- that would have worked just fine. Either that or they should have had Varel be a surviving Warden or something. Sigh, its just another thing in Awakening thats annoying on its own but not a deal breaker. Unfortunately for me, there are just a lot of these sort of little annoyances in Awakening that just snowball.

I have no problem with the "mute" PC- after all, most RPGs have silent PC's. I think people discover Mass Effect and forget that Mass Effect's dialogue system is the exception in most RPG's and not the rule.

[RazorrX]

Exactly. And it is your duty to do. YOU recruited them, YOU should induct them, not some nobody. If they die in the joining it should have been YOU who were there with them. Duncan did it for you (and HE was the Warden Commander) thus you should do it for them.

EDIT: it would have made a touching scene as Maihari dies you could cradle her and have a dialog as she of  "I am sorry my sister, I will meet you again..."

Modifié par RazorrX, 08 avril 2010 - 06:20 .

[nos_astra]

It's strange a thing with Awakening. While playing you often have a feeling something is off and you can't put your finger on it until someone else is speaking up.

EDIT: it would have made a touching scene as Maihari dies you could cradle her and have a dialog as she of "I am sorry my sister, I will meet you again..."

Woah, that would have been really immersing!

Modifié par klarabella, 08 avril 2010 - 06:25 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yes, the joining was pretty underwhelming. Very much so.
The Joining is supposed to be special. It's when someone decides to risk his/her life to become a Warden. And those who survive have their whole lives changed.

Compared to the scene in Origins, the one in Awakening lacked the proper ambiance, the proper music, it just lacked everything that the original one had (including the mighty beard). When you feel alot sadder for Daveth than you do Mhairi, then you know something is wrong. And as a lover of fine women, the fact that I got sadder for Daveth and was "meeh" for Mhairi tells you something (or maybe it tells me something?....).

Anyways, it was just dull. That, in addition to not having the option to kill someone. Watching someone die as a commander is one thing. Having the option to kill someone like Jory is another.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 08 avril 2010 - 06:29 .