44 réponses à ce sujet

[bzombo]

Rolenka wrote...

...pretty underwhelming. I realize our Warden has done it once (or twice) before, but it seemed so glossed over it really had no impact.

Oghren didn't help at all. A burp? Are you kidding me? It trivialized the entire thing.

And then it gets to Mhairi and you're like, "Well, someone has to die. Oh, there she goes."

Basicially in Origins I got used the game making me feel something, and so far Awakening hasn't even tried. I know I have a long way to go yet in the expansion, it's just disappointing is all.

i knew mhairi was going to be the one to die, but it made me feel bad. she was there from the start of the game and then just poof. i felt bad.

[Tirigon]

KnightofPhoenix wishes to kill people for not obeying some secret rules.

You´re so predictable, Knight.

:P:P:P:P:P:P:P:P

[Realmzmaster]

I was amused by Oghren's reaction. I would have been surprised if he reacted like everyone else. This is a dwarf who can drink an army under the table and still walk away A little darkspawn blood is not going to make him faint!

[krasnoarmeets]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes, the joining was pretty underwhelming. Very much so.
The Joining is supposed to be special. It's when someone decides to risk his/her life to become a Warden. And those who survive have their whole lives changed.
 

Actually, I have to disagree with this on one point... namely the 'It's when someone decides to risk his/her life to become a Warden' point. The joining is not, in fact, the point at which they commit to becoming a Warden, actually they commit when they are recruited or volunteer. Remember what happened to Ser Jory when he tried to back out?

[dadrowranger]

social.bioware.com/brc/621867

[KnightofPhoenix]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes, the joining was pretty underwhelming. Very much so.
The Joining is supposed to be special. It's when someone decides to risk his/her life to become a Warden. And those who survive have their whole lives changed.
 

Actually, I have to disagree with this on one point... namely the 'It's when someone decides to risk his/her life to become a Warden' point. The joining is not, in fact, the point at which they commit to becoming a Warden, actually they commit when they are recruited or volunteer. Remember what happened to Ser Jory when he tried to back out?

Actually this is exactly why I said that the joining was the moment of truth. Jory withdrew his prievous commitment (born of ignorance I might add). Had he gone through the joining, it would have sealed it. Hence why the joining is when someone really decides to risk his/her life and join the order.
Jory was not a Warden. He was a recruit and later on a deserter. But he never became a Warden, since he never fully committed himself to the cause with the knowledge that it will kill him sooner or later.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 avril 2010 - 02:27 .

[Ulicus]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

krasnoarmeets wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes, the joining was pretty underwhelming. Very much so.
The Joining is supposed to be special. It's when someone decides to risk his/her life to become a Warden. And those who survive have their whole lives changed.
 

Actually, I have to disagree with this on one point... namely the 'It's when someone decides to risk his/her life to become a Warden' point. The joining is not, in fact, the point at which they commit to becoming a Warden, actually they commit when they are recruited or volunteer. Remember what happened to Ser Jory when he tried to back out?

Actually this is exactly why I said that the joining was the moment of truth. Jory withdrew his prievous commitment (born of ignorance I might add). Had he gone through the joining, it would have sealed it. Hence why the joining is when someone really decides to risk his/her life and join the order.
Jory was not a Warden. He was a recruit and later on a deserter. But he never became a Warden, since he never fully committed himself to the cause with the knowledge that it will kill him sooner or later.

Indeed. You become a Warden when you take up the cup; not a moment before. Mhairi died a Grey Warden. Jory died a deserter.

Modifié par Ulicus, 09 avril 2010 - 04:46 .

[blacqout]

I found it a little weird that we were able to speak openly about the joining before hand. In Origins it was a big secret and Allistair wasn't allowed to tell you anything about it... but somehow Oghren knows about it beforehand.

[svenus97]

Yes, the Origins Joining was much better, but this one made you see through Duncan's eyes. To see what its like to be a Warden Commander and have one of your recruits die, if you could say something to Mhairi it would have been much better. But... thats just me

[TimeLordCat]

Well in any organization you got your pencil pushers seems Varel fits that pair of shoes. Then having just fought half a truck load of darkspawn no need to go look for fresh blood. But why did anyone have to be eliminated. I mean I would have taken Mhairi over Oghren any day.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes, the joining was pretty underwhelming. Very much so.
The Joining is supposed to be special. It's when someone decides to risk his/her life to become a Warden. And those who survive have their whole lives changed.

Compared to the scene in Origins, the one in Awakening lacked the proper ambiance, the proper music, it just lacked everything that the original one had (including the mighty beard). When you feel alot sadder for Daveth than you do Mhairi, then you know something is wrong. And as a lover of fine women, the fact that I got sadder for Daveth and was "meeh" for Mhairi tells you something (or maybe it tells me something?....).

Anyways, it was just dull. That, in addition to not having the option to kill someone. Watching someone die as a commander is one thing. Having the option to kill someone like Jory is another.

Agreed. Non Warden giving the ritual. lack of eiree suspense and nervous tension prior to the ritual, including haunting back music. No elder Warden with a grave voice explaining the gravity of what you are about to do, or shocked, disturbed, and worried reactions to drinking darkspawn blood. Yeah, it really sucked.

No matter how many times I replay the joining in Origins, it never loses it's impact. Hell, after it's done, I usually sit for five minutes and try to feel the overwhelming shock and horror of what just happened, which isn't hard to do. Both Daveth and Ser Jory's deaths had great emotional impact for different reasons. For me, especially Daveth, because his mind and heart were perfect for being a Warden, but sadly, his body couldn't take it. 

It was one of the things that I felt could have used improvement in Awakenings. Granted, the new Wardens aren't joining during a Blight, so the Joining itself is probably not as intense or brutal. Still, it deserved alot drama than was handled.

Oghren's belching didn't bother me that much. I really couldn't have expected much else. But the rest...I think there was more room to expand the impact of the joining.

[Ulicus]

So, anyone fancy doing the "Awakening Joining Improvement" mod? 

blacqout wrote...

I found it a little weird that we were able to speak openly about the joining before hand. In Origins it was a big secret and Allistair wasn't allowed to tell you anything about it... but somehow Oghren knows about it beforehand.

It's implied that most/some of your Origins companions found out over the course of that game. Zevran jokes about darkspawn blood being "the only bodily fluid [he] won't drink" in the Post-Coronation, for example. Sure, it was inappropriate for Oghren to allude to the cup and the need to drink anything in front of non-Wardens... but Oghren is inappropriate.

Modifié par Ulicus, 10 avril 2010 - 12:24 .

[Suron]

blacqout wrote...

I found it a little weird that we were able to speak openly about the joining before hand. In Origins it was a big secret and Allistair wasn't allowed to tell you anything about it... but somehow Oghren knows about it beforehand.

it's called inconsistancy and bad writing.

but sshh don't let Gaider know..he already went all nerd-rage when people pointed out it's stupid that he claims two grey wardens have ZERO chance of having a child together while it's possible for a warden and a non-warden to have one....because a wizard did it is basically what his response and reasoning boiled down to

[MrBoomba]

Suron wrote...

blacqout wrote...

I found it a little weird that we were able to speak openly about the joining before hand. In Origins it was a big secret and Allistair wasn't allowed to tell you anything about it... but somehow Oghren knows about it beforehand.

it's called inconsistancy and bad writing.

but sshh don't let Gaider know..he already went all nerd-rage when people pointed out it's stupid that he claims two grey wardens have ZERO chance of having a child together while it's possible for a warden and a non-warden to have one....because a wizard did it is basically what his response and reasoning boiled down to

I don't quite know if logic has stricken me daft here, but how in the flying **** did someone come up with something like "because a wizard did it"? not to be disrespectful, but I cant exactly see any other way to ask this... seriously.

[Stoomkal]

Yes.



The Joining Ritual *should* have been one of the most dramatic and important sequences in Awakenings.



It was dealt with terribly.



Unfortunately... it gets worse. While there is no Oghren to make things ruly stupid, they do a "quickie Joining" for the other characters that is so terribly rushed... I just do not know what they were thinking.



Add it to the list of areas in Awakening that makes a mockery of explanation and dialogue. It is such a task based game. The is nothing to say, even from the merchants.



Very dissapointing... and Ferret managed to sneak in three, yes THREE, secret homages to his own name.



What a great Project Leader!

[ShadowSoulReaper]

Varel didn't even deliver the lines right =( I really miss Alistair. Anders had a certain flair, but with no open dialog and Morrigan to annoy, it just sucked.

[Chuvvy]

ZeRux wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

And the whole notion of a non-Grey Warden doing the Joining is just goofy. I know they couldn't have the Warden do it due to being a mute, but really?

They could've easily done it even with Warden being mute, by making it like typical dialogue. But now when you mention it, I don't know why Bioware loves mute player characters in their games so much. Compare it with Deus Ex, where the player character would frequently start dialogues, end them, or speak on his own, without you having to choose a line (and everything with a voiceover) - none of this being common in Bioware games for some odd reason.

Of course in Deus Ex player character always had the same voice so lack of Warden voiceover in Dragon Age is understandable, as every possible response would need one audio for every voice you can choose during character creation but it still doesn't explain why NPCs often end dialogues with something bland ("Hmph!" and the likes) just for the sake of player character not ending them. Totally pointless and it makes you feel you're being talked at like a child, rather than being talked to.

Shepard Commander speaks. In DAO 2 I hope the PC speaks. In a dialog heavy game I prefer one that speaks. And they'd just have to cut out the voice selection or maybe they wouldn't need to do that at all. It'd just be the stuff you say in battle.

[Ulicus]

Suron wrote...

he already went all nerd-rage when people pointed out it's stupid that he claims two grey wardens have ZERO chance of having a child together while it's possible for a warden and a non-warden to have one....because a wizard did it is basically what his response and reasoning boiled down to

Call me crazy but I don't think the idea that one Grey Warden makes conceiving very difficult but two makes it impossible either far fetched or resorting to "a wizard did it". Especially when Alistair brings it up in the game itself.

[NvVanity]

Personally I wondered why we bothered with The Joining in Awakening. We don't need Grey Wardens to kill talking Darkspawn only to end Blights. I mean maybe the Warden Commander and other high ranking Wardens would have taken the Joining to be able to sense Darkspawn but other then that it's not really needed in Awakening.

[kormesios]

Suron wrote...

blacqout wrote...

I found it a little weird that we were able to speak openly about the joining before hand. In Origins it was a big secret and Allistair wasn't allowed to tell you anything about it... but somehow Oghren knows about it beforehand.

it's called inconsistency and bad writing.

Actually, it's mostly fan invention.  People found it convenient to claim the joining was double super secret, in order to defend Duncan's execution of Jory.

The actual "secrecy" in the game (as opposed to fan lore) was a sort of "we don't advertise" type of thing.  Other non-warden characters in the game know about, including an appearance in a published work (found in your codex) by Brother Genitivi (sp?).

The other complaints about the whole setup I completely agree with--the whole "let's get  that over with" attitude, lack of pre-joining trials, and the arbitrary death to show how "serious" it all is.