52 réponses à ce sujet

[Grovermancer]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but in NWN, weren't all the expansion classes backwards compatible w/ the original campaign?  Or no?  EDIT:  Yes, they were.  After meeting certain requirements, you could then gain access to the  expansion classes in the original NWN campaign.  (weapon master, red dragon deciple, pale master, arcane archer, etc. etc.)

Kindof sucks we can't access those extra Awakening classes, talents, etc., in Origins.  I know I've heard others mention this one here as well.  I guess another 'strike' against Awakening.






EDIT:

Grovermancer wrote...I'm not suggesting taking Awakenings classes AS THEY ARE NOW, and just  "forcing" them into Origins...

I'm talking about them being PROPERLY INTEGRATED INTO ORIGINS, FROM THE START.  That means balance, access, integration, would all flow seamlessly.


In NWN, you could appropriately access the expansion classes in the original campaign in a balanced, intelligent manner.  That's what one would expect with the Awakenings 'expansion' classes. 

That's what I'm talking about.

Modifié par Grovermancer, 09 avril 2010 - 03:26 .

[hexaligned]

In NWN2 they were (bioware didn't make that however), maybe my memory is faulty, but I'm pretty sure the expansions for NWN the original were stand alones.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Pst. This isn't NWN.

[Frank the Running Bugzepel]

Here is one mod that did what BW didn't do



http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=920

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

If it was done before, It can be done again. Technology is advancing not devolving, so go figure.

[Anakha6]

The level requirement for the new classes was 20 for the first skill and high 20s to max them I think. The level cap in origins was 25 and you couldn't get that without using exploits/ mods, playing through the game normally usually leaves you with a finishing level of 19/20. Thats probably why they weren't put in.

[Suron]

Anakha6 wrote...

The level requirement for the new classes was 20 for the first skill and high 20s to max them I think. The level cap in origins was 25 and you couldn't get that without using exploits/ mods, playing through the game normally usually leaves you with a finishing level of 19/20. Thats probably why they weren't put in.

I have over 500 hours in DA:O and not ONCE was I only 19/20 when I finished it...more like 23/24

even my no-side quest speed run was like 22

Modifié par Suron, 08 avril 2010 - 02:53 .

[astrallite]

You can hit mid 24 if you do everything in Dragon Age Origins (what content is available so far). You should hit 20+ easily even if all you did was play the main quest.

[Kail Ashton]

I'm gonna say lvl cap issue and just cause YOU did everything doesn't mean EVERYONE did everything in DA:O, you are afterall a small insignificant spec of nothing in a universe of nothingness, thus~! just because you did it does not mean it's required for everyone else



Now on the otherhand, i would have liked to see the Skills retroactive into Origins, the stamina/health/runecrafts woulda been nice

[Guilebrush]

DrunkDeadman wrote...

If it was done before, It can be done again. Technology is advancing not devolving, so go figure.

This. Does it actually expand on or add anything to the base functionality and
campaign of DA:O? For all intents and purposes Awakenings is more a separate module (which allows you to import a character from the OC) sold through retail channels than a true "expansion pack."

[Spitz6860]

some talents in Awakening is way overpowered, bringing them back to Origins are definitely gonna break some game balance, and most of them has level requirement of 25+ while Origins caps at 25, so what's the point

[Grovermancer]

What you mean is: 

Lady light doorbell wrote...

Here is YET ANOTHER mod that did what BW didn't do

http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=920

No:

Anakha6 wrote...

The level requirement for the new classes
was 20 for the first skill and high 20s to max them I think. The level
cap in origins was 25 and you couldn't get that without using exploits/
mods, playing through the game normally usually leaves you with a
finishing level of 19/20. Thats probably why they weren't put
in.

My very first play-through, knowing nothing of this game, I made lvl 20.  By my 4th, I was 24.  Since, I'm never less than high 23.

Spitz6860 wrote...

some talents in Awakening is way
overpowered, bringing them back to Origins are definitely gonna break
some game balance, and most of them has level requirement of 25+ while
Origins caps at 25, so what's the point

Well, were BW to have done it in the first place (like I thought they did with NWN), they would have balanced it from the get-go so as to fit in Origins.

[Warkwright]

It would require e-f-f-o-r-t.

[killingsheep24]

They should have put stamina pots in the original game.

[CybAnt1]

BTW, the mod that makes the abilities available retroactively doesn't remove the level and ability requirements for them.



Ergo, it will be impossible to use the ones that require level 26 or 28, and the stat requirements may force you to do additional char hacking on your char to use some of the others.

[Kileyan]

Either way, its was a bad idea to not implement the new class specializations in such a way that they could add replay value to the old game. I would also have liked runecrafting and stamina pots to be in the old game.



That is my largest complaints about the expansion, aside from its price. I was expecting some of the new stuff to be backwards compatible and add much replay to the very good original game.



If you followed the games development, it was hyped as a huge original world, a big new franchise that would be getting DLC and expansion support for years to come. Yet when push comes to shove, even the most rudimentary things aren't forward or backwards compatible. I don't get it, its seems a dev would jump at the chance to reuse content like class specs, and push them into the original game.



Runecrafting definately belongs in the original game. It would be something you did ocassionally throught 20ish levels, rather than being a tedious process you do a marathon crafting session at, in the short expansion.

[CybAnt1]

Either way, its was a bad idea to not implement the new class specializations in such a way that they could add replay value to the old game. I would also have liked runecrafting and stamina pots to be in the old game.

Runecrafting: absolutely, but not until it gets fixed. BTW, I'm up for any modder who wants to write a mod that not only fixes some of its issues, but retro-acts the new A runes into O. Problem is no O armor has armor slots: unless you use the runesforeverything mod (and I'm not sure it's compatible with the new runes). 

As for stamina pots, there was a mod for it for O, which got obsoleted with the release of A. (Well, not really, since there's no retro-act mod, you still need them in an O game.) 

Runecrafting definately belongs in the original game. 

Yes, or in future expacs/sequels, and I will love it once it gets deborked. 

Item 1, I think, is for either the devs., or a modder, to sort the crafting menus. Now the irony is every crafting menu is unsorted, but it never really bothered people that much for herbalism, poisonmaking, or trapmaking. Where the unsorted crafting menu really becomes an annoyance is in runecrafting. 

BTW, forgetting the specs, talents, and spells (which are stat/level dependent), there is a case for retroactivity for other things. Including the two new bombs traps & poisons, the clarity & vitality skills (why not?), etc. I think once the Toolset is updated someone will write a full on retroactivity mod that "backgrades" everything. 

[Kileyan]

CybAnt1 wrote...

BTW, forgetting the specs, talents, and spells (which are stat/level dependent),

I still say they missed a great opportunity to add much replay to the original game via the new class specs. I understand the new talents being an issue, they are very much made for a high level game style. You could say we already bought the original game, so there is nothing in it for them to do extra work to expand upon the old game:(

We discussed this in depth on another forum that is frequented by people in the game dev business. The concensus was that the big stopper in compatibility between games was the enormous amounts of hoops the devs have to jump through to push game changes or a patch through console avenues. It would have meant jumping through hoops for their new project and the original game.

PC's are much easier to patch with less scrutiny and (hoop jumping), but if they included a bunch of special perks to pc users, it would have led to a pr nightmare of dozens of major blogs and game sites pointing out that consoles got gimpy versions of the game, blah blah.

[Spitz6860]

killingsheep24 wrote...

They should have put stamina pots in the original game.

that i'll agree.

[astrallite]

CybAnt1 wrote...

BTW, the mod that makes the abilities available retroactively doesn't remove the level and ability requirements for them.

Ergo, it will be impossible to use the ones that require level 26 or 28, and the stat requirements may force you to do additional char hacking on your char to use some of the others.

There is another mod that puts Awakening in the OC with the level requirements for the specs removed entirely, and also stamina pots. I would say it's not actually unbalaced to remove the level cap because you need pretty high specs to qualify for those talents to start with.

[caladorne]

*yawn*



I'm tired of this argument already and it's been like a single month. There's is NO reason why the talents/skills/etc should not be available in the OC after installing DAO:A.



NWN1 AND 2 used this feature to greatly extend the life of both games b/c there were so many hours of content that could be replayed w/ the new stuff.



Isn't that what an expansion does? 'Expand' the story/mechanics/etc of the OC? Well, not yet anyway for DAO:A. It's more of a 'continuation' (assuming you didn't choose lots and lots and lots and lots of options in the OC w/ a ported pc) than an expansion anwyay.



That's my LAST buck'o'five on the subject.

[Rolenka]

I hadn't realized this. That's ABSURD.

[MrBoomba]

Much agreed Caladorne, I had like 7 characters ready for an expansion though. Sadly my PS3 harddrive became corrupt and all information had to be deleted D:

[Yrkoon]

relhart wrote...

In NWN2 they were (bioware didn't make that however), maybe my memory is faulty, but I'm pretty sure the expansions for NWN the original were stand alones.

Of course NWN1's expansions added new feats, character classes AND races  that were usable in the original.   With HoTU installed, you can play the OC as a weapon master.... or a pale master  etc.  Which, btw,  literally breathed new life into the Original

 But we don't really have to  look at  NWN.    BG2's expansion ALSO added new classes and spells to the original.  (wild mage, anyone?).  Even BG1's expansion added  a new weapon type (scimitar) and an increased level cap to the original campaign

That's how things are done.  That's what seperates an Expansion from a module.


I cannot imagine the warped thinking behind the decision to make Awakening  a stand alone and then shamelessly call it an expansion.  For gods sakes, they couldn't even be bothered to  add Stamina droughts to Origins.

Pure, undefensable crap.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 avril 2010 - 03:23 .

[Yrkoon]

Kileyan wrote...


We discussed this in depth on another forum that is frequented by people in the game dev business. The concensus was that the big stopper in compatibility between games was the enormous amounts of hoops the devs have to jump through to push game changes or a patch through console avenues. It would have meant jumping through hoops for their new project and the original game.

PC's are much easier to patch with less scrutiny and (hoop jumping), but if they included a bunch of special perks to pc users, it would have led to a pr nightmare of dozens of major blogs and game sites pointing out that consoles got gimpy versions of the game, blah blah.

Ah...

  So to implement the new skills into the original, they'd have  to  work a little harder, and a little longer.   And I suppose that also explains why they've been so slow with patching the game.  ( it's hard to patch XBox and PS3 console games)


Perhaps if they would have charged us a little bit more than the standard $29.99 expansion price, they'd have had the resources to jump through  those  hoops?

Oh wait, they did.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 09 avril 2010 - 03:40 .