90 réponses à ce sujet

[wonko33]

I don't think so either. I've played playthroughs where Allistair was dumped and stayed in camp to cook from right after Lothering. I can't really say more in the no spoiler section though. I think you made him the main character in your playthrough by putting a lot of importance on his input

[jsachun]

I believe it's Morrigan. I think David Gaider mentions it somewhere.

[aliastasia]

What errant_knight said, but I think there's also a story needing to be told about Alistair and Morrigan at some point, as she's the anti-Alistair ;-)



I also hope that a future version will have a less puppyish Alistair in it, without turning him into Stannis Baratheon ;-).



/A

[SRWill64]

I NEVER leave camp without Alistair...I don't care who else I have to leave. And he ALWAYS lets his opinion be known...unlike some others. I value his good sense of morals and character: they're like mine and for that I'll NEVER apologize.

[Trintrin86]

I agree, I think Alistair would have done very well for himself eventually if your PC hadn't been there. Alistair is somewhere between 19-35 in this game? Has been told his entire life that the best he'll ever be is a good follower? Of course he's terrified. His speech to the army before the siege of Denerim is all the proof I need that eventually, he would have emerged as a leader in his own right.



I do hope that in a further expansion or in a future game we get a little more Alistair, particularly one who has been king for awhile and we get to see how that's matured him. But not too mature... cheesy jokes!

[aliastasia]

it says 32 in the morph character sheet



/A

[TheMufflon]

Dragon Age is actually an angsty teenage love story, starring Cammen.

[jsachun]

TheMufflon wrote...

Dragon Age is actually an angsty teenage love story, starring Cammen.

That would make sense why they're still in their underwear during the sex scenes. Those boys still haven't learnt to unstrap bras with one hand.

Modifié par jsachun, 09 avril 2010 - 01:59 .

[errant_knight]

The basic structure of the story is that of 'The Hero's Journey' monomyth, and it's done quite cleverly so that the PC can take over the hero role. The point of the OP was that when the player is taken out of the mix, the structure of the story has Alistair as that hero.

Let's look at some of the elements of the paradigm. The hero is separated from the life he/she has known, often from family. They are called to fulfill a destiny which they often refuse at first. This can be for a number of reasons, duty, a sense of inadequacy, etc. They are pushed toward their destiny by supernatural intervention. When they take up the quest, they are forced to undergo a series of trials, through which their powers grow and they become stronger. They often leave the physical world and return. Through the course of the story, they become the hero they were meant to be, now able to accomplish a goal that they'd doubted their ability to achieve. There's a whole lot more to it than that, and some elements fit better than others, but at it's heart, that's the nature of this story.

The PC in Dragon's age fits the paradigm just as well as Alistair, but while the PC can be removed from the story without intrinsically changing it, Alistair cannot. Some of the companions can be as well. To keep the story whole, you need Alistair, Morrigan, Cailan, Anora, Loghain, Flemeth, and Duncan, or it falls apart.

Because it's a game, and because it's as fun to subvert the paradigm as to let it unfold in the classic sense, they let us manipulate the story. The PC can be the hero. Or an Anti-hero. Or the PC can act as the force who influences the hero to achieve his destiny. Basically, they've put us in a classic story of a king achieving his birthright and saving his people, and have given a wide range of choices as to what we want to do within that story. We can take it all away from him and give it to someone else, or to ourselves. We can turn the hero/s of the story into villains. Because it's a game and not a book. But in a book, we'd be unnecessary.

Modifié par errant_knight, 09 avril 2010 - 04:50 .

[SRWill64]

Trintrin86 wrote...

I agree, I think Alistair would have done very well for himself eventually if your PC hadn't been there. Alistair is somewhere between 19-35 in this game? Has been told his entire life that the best he'll ever be is a good follower? Of course he's terrified. His speech to the army before the siege of Denerim is all the proof I need that eventually, he would have emerged as a leader in his own right.

I do hope that in a further expansion or in a future game we get a little more Alistair, particularly one who has been king for awhile and we get to see how that's matured him. But not too mature... cheesy jokes!

Let's do the math for his age...
Maric allowed the Wardens back into Ferelden 20 years prior to DA:O. Maric died before Alistair's mother did. Alistair's mother died shortly after his birth...that's why Goldanna blames him for killing their mother. Even if Maric died immediately after allowing the Wardens back into Ferelden and Alistair's mother died shortly after, that would make Alistair's maximum possible age 21. If Maric didn't die shortly after allowing the Wardens back into Ferelden, it would make Alistair younger than 21, not older!
Why does everyone not pay attention to the clues in the game?

[errant_knight]

SRWill64 wrote...

Trintrin86 wrote...

I agree, I think Alistair would have done very well for himself eventually if your PC hadn't been there. Alistair is somewhere between 19-35 in this game? Has been told his entire life that the best he'll ever be is a good follower? Of course he's terrified. His speech to the army before the siege of Denerim is all the proof I need that eventually, he would have emerged as a leader in his own right.

I do hope that in a further expansion or in a future game we get a little more Alistair, particularly one who has been king for awhile and we get to see how that's matured him. But not too mature... cheesy jokes!

Let's do the math for his age...
Maric allowed the Wardens back into Ferelden 20 years prior to DA:O. Maric died before Alistair's mother did. Alistair's mother died shortly after his birth...that's why Goldanna blames him for killing their mother. Even if Maric died immediately after allowing the Wardens back into Ferelden and Alistair's mother died shortly after, that would make Alistair's maximum possible age 21. If Maric didn't die shortly after allowing the Wardens back into Ferelden, it would make Alistair younger than 21, not older!
Why does everyone not pay attention to the clues in the game?

Well, while some would agree with you, I'm afraid I can't. Just look at the guy. That's just not a 21 year old in my opinion.

[SRWill64]

thegreateski wrote...

SRWill64 wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

Alistair WOULD have been the main character . . . if he had a backbone.

If you have read the posts I have you would realize that David Gaider and Bioware had every intention to make Alistair the main focus of the game and he was intended to become king. And he does have a backbone...you've obviously never REALLY pissed him off like I did once. He yelled at my girl for making the wrong decision...and he was in LOVE with her! No backbone, indeed!!

Oh I've pissed him off plenty. I would like to note that there is a difference between "getting pissy" and actually doing something about it.

I've also offered to let him lead the group on a few occassions. He declined.

I've offered to let him lead, too. He declined. He's been told all his life he'll never be anything and never be a good leader, don't even think of ruling. When you tell a child these things it really affects them and makes them believe the lie. They stop believing in themselves. As adults they lack self-esteem and become followers of people they admire. It's quite simple psychology, really. Alistair is a victim of cruelty and snobbery, and it hurt him....but it makes an interesting character. Really, put yourself in his place and remember how cruel children can be to each other.
I know because I was teased a lot as a child. I believed them for a long time. I was in my mid 30's before I realized they were just mean people and I didn't have to believe their lies. Alistair doesn't have anybody to tell him that.
If you don't understand that....maybe you were one of the bullies?

Modifié par SRWill64, 09 avril 2010 - 07:40 .

[SRWill64]

errant_knight wrote...

SRWill64 wrote...

Trintrin86 wrote...

I agree, I think Alistair would have done very well for himself eventually if your PC hadn't been there. Alistair is somewhere between 19-35 in this game? Has been told his entire life that the best he'll ever be is a good follower? Of course he's terrified. His speech to the army before the siege of Denerim is all the proof I need that eventually, he would have emerged as a leader in his own right.

I do hope that in a further expansion or in a future game we get a little more Alistair, particularly one who has been king for awhile and we get to see how that's matured him. But not too mature... cheesy jokes!

Let's do the math for his age...
Maric allowed the Wardens back into Ferelden 20 years prior to DA:O. Maric died before Alistair's mother did. Alistair's mother died shortly after his birth...that's why Goldanna blames him for killing their mother. Even if Maric died immediately after allowing the Wardens back into Ferelden and Alistair's mother died shortly after, that would make Alistair's maximum possible age 21. If Maric didn't die shortly after allowing the Wardens back into Ferelden, it would make Alistair younger than 21, not older!
Why does everyone not pay attention to the clues in the game?

Well, while some would agree with you, I'm afraid I can't. Just look at the guy. That's just not a 21 year old in my opinion.

In my opinion he looks about 19. He acts about 19.
And if you doubt the timeline I described...look at the history of the Grey Wardens in the game, and King Maric. It's all there.

[hexaligned]

If there was a canon story arc, I could see your point, it's possible to make Alistair a central character to a degree that the other companions can't be. It's also possible to park his ass in camp and forget about him until he pokes his head in at the Landsmeet and then leaves to drink himself to death. Ultimately it's your decisions that decide how much of a role he plays, so no, I would have to disagree.

[SRWill64]

relhart wrote...

If there was a canon story arc, I could see your point, it's possible to make Alistair a central character to a degree that the other companions can't be. It's also possible to park his ass in camp and forget about him until he pokes his head in at the Landsmeet and then leaves to drink himself to death. Ultimately it's your decisions that decide how much of a role he plays, so no, I would have to disagree.

He's too cute just to leave in camp...kind of like a kid.

[Mlai00]

Alistair is the necessary main hero *only if* you decide to play the story out like the hero's journey monomyth. If you play the story out in your own way, then he's a side character and story device just like the rest of the companions.

[errant_knight]

Mlai00 wrote...

Alistair is the necessary main hero *only if* you decide to play the story out like the hero's journey monomyth. If you play the story out in your own way, then he's a side character and story device just like the rest of the companions.

 Sort of. He's still necessary to make the plot move forward right up until the end, as is Morrigan. And everyone is a story device, including the PC and the rats in the larder.

[blacqout]

SRWill64 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

SRWill64 wrote...

Trintrin86 wrote...

I agree, I think Alistair would have done very well for himself eventually if your PC hadn't been there. Alistair is somewhere between 19-35 in this game? Has been told his entire life that the best he'll ever be is a good follower? Of course he's terrified. His speech to the army before the siege of Denerim is all the proof I need that eventually, he would have emerged as a leader in his own right.

I do hope that in a further expansion or in a future game we get a little more Alistair, particularly one who has been king for awhile and we get to see how that's matured him. But not too mature... cheesy jokes!

Let's do the math for his age...
Maric allowed the Wardens back into Ferelden 20 years prior to DA:O. Maric died before Alistair's mother did. Alistair's mother died shortly after his birth...that's why Goldanna blames him for killing their mother. Even if Maric died immediately after allowing the Wardens back into Ferelden and Alistair's mother died shortly after, that would make Alistair's maximum possible age 21. If Maric didn't die shortly after allowing the Wardens back into Ferelden, it would make Alistair younger than 21, not older!
Why does everyone not pay attention to the clues in the game?

Well, while some would agree with you, I'm afraid I can't. Just look at the guy. That's just not a 21 year old in my opinion.

In my opinion he looks about 19. He acts about 19.
And if you doubt the timeline I described...look at the history of the Grey Wardens in the game, and King Maric. It's all there.

King Maric was Allistair's father, no?

If you recruit Loghian, after speaking to him for a while he says something to the effect of "Maric nearly did take Allistair in".  Maric didn't die before Allistair's birth.

[errant_knight]

blacqout wrote...

SRWill64 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

SRWill64 wrote...

Trintrin86 wrote...

I agree, I think Alistair would have done very well for himself eventually if your PC hadn't been there. Alistair is somewhere between 19-35 in this game? Has been told his entire life that the best he'll ever be is a good follower? Of course he's terrified. His speech to the army before the siege of Denerim is all the proof I need that eventually, he would have emerged as a leader in his own right.

I do hope that in a further expansion or in a future game we get a little more Alistair, particularly one who has been king for awhile and we get to see how that's matured him. But not too mature... cheesy jokes!

Let's do the math for his age...
Maric allowed the Wardens back into Ferelden 20 years prior to DA:O. Maric died before Alistair's mother did. Alistair's mother died shortly after his birth...that's why Goldanna blames him for killing their mother. Even if Maric died immediately after allowing the Wardens back into Ferelden and Alistair's mother died shortly after, that would make Alistair's maximum possible age 21. If Maric didn't die shortly after allowing the Wardens back into Ferelden, it would make Alistair younger than 21, not older!
Why does everyone not pay attention to the clues in the game?

Well, while some would agree with you, I'm afraid I can't. Just look at the guy. That's just not a 21 year old in my opinion.

In my opinion he looks about 19. He acts about 19.
And if you doubt the timeline I described...look at the history of the Grey Wardens in the game, and King Maric. It's all there.

King Maric was Allistair's father, no?

If you recruit Loghian, after speaking to him for a while he says something to the effect of "Maric nearly did take Allistair in".  Maric didn't die before Allistair's birth.

Oh, wow, that's really interesting! Thanks for the info!

[Xandurpein]

The thing you need to realize about Alistair is that no character in the game is really more affected by the player than him. You as player litteraly hold Alistairs fate in your hand. Alistair can be the beloved King who unifies a divided country or he can be an inconsequential dropout. Either outcome is a much the truth as the other. It all depends on the players choices. That is why people never can agree on Alistair's character. We all play differently, and because of that see different versions of who 'he really is'.



At the same time Alistair really isn't strictly needed for any outcome, except to continue Maric's bloodline one more generation, before it probably dies out anyway. It's really up to your perception if you think this makes Alistair the star or a puppet, or even both, at least in my opinion.

[SRWill64]

errant_knight wrote...

blacqout wrote...

SRWill64 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

SRWill64 wrote...

Trintrin86 wrote...

I agree, I think Alistair would have done very well for himself eventually if your PC hadn't been there. Alistair is somewhere between 19-35 in this game? Has been told his entire life that the best he'll ever be is a good follower? Of course he's terrified. His speech to the army before the siege of Denerim is all the proof I need that eventually, he would have emerged as a leader in his own right.

I do hope that in a further expansion or in a future game we get a little more Alistair, particularly one who has been king for awhile and we get to see how that's matured him. But not too mature... cheesy jokes!

Let's do the math for his age...
Maric allowed the Wardens back into Ferelden 20 years prior to DA:O. Maric died before Alistair's mother did. Alistair's mother died shortly after his birth...that's why Goldanna blames him for killing their mother. Even if Maric died immediately after allowing the Wardens back into Ferelden and Alistair's mother died shortly after, that would make Alistair's maximum possible age 21. If Maric didn't die shortly after allowing the Wardens back into Ferelden, it would make Alistair younger than 21, not older!
Why does everyone not pay attention to the clues in the game?

Well, while some would agree with you, I'm afraid I can't. Just look at the guy. That's just not a 21 year old in my opinion.

In my opinion he looks about 19. He acts about 19.
And if you doubt the timeline I described...look at the history of the Grey Wardens in the game, and King Maric. It's all there.

King Maric was Allistair's father, no?

If you recruit Loghian, after speaking to him for a while he says something to the effect of "Maric nearly did take Allistair in".  Maric didn't die before Allistair's birth.

Oh, wow, that's really interesting! Thanks for the info!

When you talk to Alistair he says that his father died even before his mother did. Arl Eamon took him in...He didn't KNOW his father. He was told who his father was, that's all.
I wrote to David Gaider. I'm going to solve this once and for all, because I'm tired of hearing the disparaging remarks about Alistair. Especially the one about him being a 30 year old virgin!

Modifié par SRWill64, 10 avril 2010 - 01:42 .

[errant_knight]

I don't see as how that's disparaging. He spent most of his live in an ecclesiastical environment. He's also not one for casual sex. It has meaning for him and isn't something he wants without that. How is that a bad thing? The PC is a fairly unusual woman, and if that's the type of woman that he falls for, it makes sense that he hasn't actively pursued a sexual relationship prior to their meeting. He admits that he's thought about it. He is human after all, but if a man like Alistair wanted to have sex, he wouldn't have had to look very far to find someone willing to oblige him. The other characters also seem somewhat surprised to find that he's a virgin. The younger he is, the less sense that makes.

[Stoomkal]

Okay...

Number one, trying to guess Alistairs age is a fools game. David Gaider has already said that both the toolset *and* his own novels are in error in regard to the timeline and Alistairs real age. It has not been definitively set.

Secondly, I don't really agree that the PC was not the main character.

I think it is just that the other characters are so strong, and have integral parts of the storyline bound to them, that they do not fit as typical "henchmen" type characters.

I could use the same argument that Morrigan is the real hero of the story, as it is Alistair, Morrigan, and the PC who have the most impact and relevance to the main story.

Of course, if Morrigan's ritual is never completed, and Alistair is discarded for Loghain without being made King... then neither are really "main" characters, as neither will play very big parts.

This is simply an artifact of these characters being so *relevant* to the main  story.

They certainly do not take away from the imagined drama of *my* main character.  With a male lead, Alistair slots straight into the "buddy-cop" role, even more if he dies at the end... just before retirement.

I think they are very well done characters, but certainly do not eclipse the main character and the personal drama of his decisions.

Remember that the main characters past always returns to haunt them in the form of the Origin stories, too.

This was one of the things I both liked and disliked about Awakening. You are clearly the hero in charge, but that doesn't matter because your companions are shallow mutes anyway...

[SRWill64]

I was disappointed ny the lack of relationships in Awakening, too. They missed the mark there as far as I was concerned.

I still think Alistair doesn't look 30 anyway. Max 25.

[errant_knight]

I think we're kind of talking past each other. I'm not talking about the way the PC works in the game, but it's late and I can't figure out how to say it any better.