108 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabriana]

@ Swordfishtrombone
The *facepalm* and other such expressions of emotions are actually necesarry on the internet. Printed/posted words can be terribly misunderstood, because they can't express emotions. A post can be meant as sarcastic/funny/joking, but it can easily come across as insulting/berating/etc.

The emoticons, and other expression take the part of the voice inflections and body language, which is very important.

By the way, I'd like to see anyone speak or write Finnish better than a native of Suomi. That is one hard language, I'd say. <----- (yes, this denotes that I meant that in an entirely friendly way, and was not meant to rip into Finnland).

@ UpiH
No non-native English speaker needs to be forgiven. They have committed neither sin nor crime, but try their best, and claiming this board as "English only" is arrogant.

Hehe, I ninja'd Xandurpein
Have an emotiecon. It's a present.

Modifié par Sabriana, 08 avril 2010 - 09:11 .

[Xandurpein]

I think that there is actually a reason for emoticons entering forums so much. There are many pitfalls in written language that are so much easier to avoid in spoken language. Humor and irony tends to often confuse the issue in written language because you lack the things like body language and voice pitch that let's us differentiate irony from an ordinary phrase.

The use of emoticons is pretty irregular today and many are developed by kids, but they can serve a purpose to help make communication easier as they can substitute for other froms of communicatin that goes with spoken language and tend to get lost in written language. So I'm all for it as long as it doesn't degenerate into a 'secret code' that is used to exclude people rather than improve communication.

/Edit. Fine you beat me Sabriana...

Modifié par Xandurpein, 08 avril 2010 - 09:08 .

[Nukenin]

I think the best way to write English is to translate it to Japanese using Google Translate or the like, then translate it back to English, and let that stand as sacrosanct.

私は最善の方法は英語にそれを翻訳することです書き込むには、Google翻訳などを使用して、日本語を英語に戻すにそれを翻訳、と思うよう神聖として立っている。

I'm not the best way to write is to translate it into English, Google and using the translation back to English, translate it into Japanese, so I think that stands as sacred.

***

If everybody did this the forum would be a happier place.

誰もがこのフォーラムは幸せな場所になってしまう。

Everyone on this forum becomes a happy place.

***

Dragon Age is a great game!

ドラゴン年齢は素晴らしいゲームです！

Dragon Age is a great game!

Ooh!  Equilibrium!

ああ！ 平衡！

Oh!  Equilibrium!

クラップ！

[Swordfishtrombone]

@Sabriana - I fully agree.



Written communication over the internet is more immediate than, say, letter writing, and emoticons and other "meta-language" does help avoid misunderstandings and convey nuance.

[Nukenin]

I remember seeing notes as a kid peppered with smiley-faces and hugs and kisses and other gross girl stuff. 

[jsachun]

OP, Bioware is marking us on our grammer.

As long as we get what we are trying to communicate through, does it matter whether a word is spelt right or sentences & paragraphs are composed correctly?

I think most of us don't bother with syntaxes & paragraph breaks because it's social & not work.

C'mon drop the seriousness & have some fun.

Modifié par jsachun, 08 avril 2010 - 11:48 .

[UpiH]

OIC, a fellow Finn abroad. Neat. Judging by some words like "Halla", "Marjolaine" etc and the end credits it looks like there's a Finn in the developer team as well.

@Sabriana: We have 3 official languages: Finnish, Swedish and Sami, Finnish being the most common, Sami is the language of the Northern native people. Then there was Latin in the Medieval era and Russian, forced down our throats 1809-1917. Some authors whose native tongue is Swedish (completely different from Finnish) write both in Finnish and in Swedish.

I do have a couple of friends of German origin. Their command of our language indeed could be better than that of many of us aborigines, if you like. At least they had a fresh angle to it, they pointed out numerous funny things a native speaker did not recognize because we are so accustomed to those idioms.

Modifié par UpiH, 08 avril 2010 - 10:06 .

[UpiH]

Sabriana wrote...
@ UpiH
No non-native English speaker needs to be forgiven. They have committed neither sin nor crime, but try their best, and claiming this board as "English only" is arrogant.

Wrong choice of words, then? Sholda read "Are understandable" of sumpthin' to that effect? I didn't take it as if he was scolding us foreigners in the nets, but I see your point, doncha ever take me wrong.

[Nukenin]

There's no good *facepalm* emoticon.  I think  is closest.

Modifié par Nukenin, 08 avril 2010 - 10:14 .

[UpiH]

Is there any for LMAO @ go-ogling?

[Nukenin]

 works well enough.  It covers a variety of emotions, usually centering around "deranged".  :happy: 

[Sabriana]

However, there's no substitute for "Rofl". Meaning that I not only laughed out loud, but for a continued time.

Yeah, UpiH. Perhaps it is a poor choice of words, and not simply ethnocentrism. Tsk, tsk.

By the way, I knew about Sami, because I had an interesting discussion with a friend about that. He insisted that Sami is the language indigenous to Suomi, and I insisted that it is a community in the Greek island of Kefalonia. A very gorgeous island indeed. Turns out we were both right, and we both got an education that evening. Google. Don't you just love it?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Nukenin wrote...

There's no good *facepalm* emoticon.  I think  is closest.

You know what they say. An image speaks a thousand words (in addition to what is written).

[Gill Kaiser]

Taiko Roshi wrote...
This is a forum for gamers, proper english is neither needed or important.

So what are you saying, we who care about the English language aren't real gamers? It's people like you who are responsible for the crap I have to read on a daily basis.

[CybAnt1]

I just find some of the spelling errors amusing. Great joke fodder.



Like spelling "canon" as "cannon".



There also was a recent post where they spelled "Wynne" as "Wayne". Their question was about how to save Wayne. I figured maybe they had been watching Wayne's World.

[EmperorSahlertz]

So is this all just a cry for the old glory days of the British Empire? I mean seriously, are you actually so arrogant you refuse to read some poorly spelled English? I wonder how you treat tourist in your country.....

[darkmax1974]

Sabriana wrote...

I find the original post very offensive. This is more or less an international board. There are many, many other languages around, and some posters have to translate from their language into English word for word. Of course they use the sentence structure they are most familiar with, so often the posts end up looking like grammar soup.

There are a limited number of forums here. We have one, the French have one, and the Polish have one. That's it. The rest has to make due with the English forum, unless they speak the other three languages.

It is supremely arrogant to assume that only proper English speakers may post here. I shall echo other posters. As long as I can understand what the poster means, I'm fine with it. The worst to me are garbled posts and those that have leet-speak, punctuation issues, and paragraphs that are non-existent.

Even with garbled posts, most of them are simply translations from on-line translators, or Native-to-English dictionaries. If I need to ask someone to clarify, I will. It's the polite and proper thing to do. It's quite easy to figure out if the posts were garbled on purpose, or if the poster tried her/his best to post in an unfamiliar language.

Strangely enough, the leet speak comes usually from the native English speakers. Most of us can't even understand what the leet speak means. Most of us non-native English speaker speak English only in English. I don't even think there is a translator out there that can translate leet into other languages.

So get off your high horse, and welcome to the World-Wide-Web.

Have you even read what I've written? Just so you know, I'm not English, European, American, Australian, African, or Indian. So I'm not even considered a native-speaker in as many countries.

I don't quite remember the world wide web being the birthing place of bad languages.

[Sabriana]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Nukenin wrote...

There's no good *facepalm* emoticon.  I think  is closest.

You know what they say. An image speaks a thousand words (in addition to what is written).

what a cool picture. I'm so stealing that, Phoenix.

[Sabriana]

Have you read what I've written, or did you just practice your cut/paste skills?

The WWW is the place of the world, and the world contains many different people with many different languages.

Do you read the posts in the thread you started at all? If not, that's considered bad manners, you know.

Let me re-quote myself:

Sabriana wrote...

@ UpiH

No non-native English speaker needs to be forgiven. They have committed neither sin nor crime, but try their best, and claiming this board as "English only" is arrogant.

Which should give you a clue that I did indeed read your OP very, very carefully, no? I don't care what country you come from, but appointing yourself the "Miss Manners" of forum language is quite arrogant. People here come from all parts of the world. Re-read what I wrote, it should give you a hint or two about many people, many countries, and many languages.

If a post annoys you, post about it or move on. No one is forcing you to read anything here.

[darkmax1974]

Sabriana wrote...

@ Swordfishtrombone
The *facepalm* and other such expressions of emotions are actually necesarry on the internet. Printed/posted words can be terribly misunderstood, because they can't express emotions. A post can be meant as sarcastic/funny/joking, but it can easily come across as insulting/berating/etc.

The emoticons, and other expression take the part of the voice inflections and body language, which is very important.

By the way, I'd like to see anyone speak or write Finnish better than a native of Suomi. That is one hard language, I'd say. <----- (yes, this denotes that I meant that in an entirely friendly way, and was not meant to rip into Finnland).

@ UpiH
No non-native English speaker needs to be forgiven. They have committed neither sin nor crime, but try their best, and claiming this board as "English only" is arrogant.

Hehe, I ninja'd Xandurpein
Have an emotiecon. It's a present.

Look, I was there when emoticons were invented. Those are fine, But things like "facepalm" are not emoticons, they are bad web-talk that seems to simply "omg". In this case shouldn't "palm2face" be more appropriate?

Looking at "facepalm", it seems to mean bringing the face to the palm. From what I understand that is a symbolism and body language of a griefing or depressed person.

And what is "ninja'ed"? I'm totally confused by that.

[darkmax1974]

Sabriana wrote...

Have you read what I've written, or did you just practice your cut/paste skills?
The WWW is the place of the world, and the world contains many different people with many different languages.
Do you read the posts in the thread you started at all? If not, that's considered bad manners, you know.
Let me re-quote myself:

Sabriana wrote...
@ UpiH
No non-native English speaker needs to be forgiven. They have committed neither sin nor crime, but try their best, and claiming this board as "English only" is arrogant.

Which should give you a clue that I did indeed read your OP very, very carefully, no? I don't care what country you come from, but appointing yourself the "Miss Manners" of forum language is quite arrogant. People here come from all parts of the world. Re-read what I wrote, it should give you a hint or two about many people, many countries, and many languages.
If a post annoys you, post about it or move on. No one is forcing you to read anything here.

I still recommend you read through my initial post, you have not understood my standpoint. And yes, I do undertsand there are more races of people here than just the Europeans.

But as I said, there are some out there who are just plain bad, even for native speakers. And as i've also recommend that they should spend more time improving their communication skills and language than playing these games. 

Am I wrong? Or are you arguing for argument's sake? Or just like to have the last word in every conversation?

[errant_knight]

What happened here while I was sleeping? It was pretty clear to me that the poster wasn't talking about language use by non-native speakers. How did this become an english vs non-english flame war?

[Sabriana]

"Facepalm" is used everywhere. This isn't an academic discussion board, this is a game forum with a wide arch of people differing in many, many aspects.

I suggest you adapt to widely used forum language, or quit the casual forum. You'll save yourself a lot of imagined pain at seeing a language used in a forum manner.

The whole post dissecting the use of facepalm is nitpicking and linguistics applied to academic terms. That will never work on a casual forum. Save yourself a lot of self-righteous indignation if you are that offended by casual talking/posting, and use the academically acclaimed linguistics forums instead.

I understood your standpoint very well. You should however, get used to the way the forums are as they stand. It will not change. Facepalm will not change. OMG will not change. Roflmao will not change. People are very much used to those expressions.

Leet-speak, non-use of punctuations, non-existent paragraphs, yes, those can be very annoying. My resolution is to skip those posts entirely, not to arrogantly wave my finger in people's faces demanding that they should adhere to my standard(s).

Edit:
No flame war intended. At least not by me.

I took exception to the OP telling everyone that non-native speakers can be forgiven. There is nothing to forgive. This is not an "English only" forum, after all. That is a poor choice of words. Frequently used forum words, i.e. facepalm were also under fire by the OP.

Furthermore, english cannot usually flow natural if English isn't the first language. Some of us are fluent enough so that it will flow naturally while others need more time to translate back and forth and understand what is being said/posted.

As far as intentional bad communication, the I actually agree with the OP, as can be deduced by me actually pointing this out.

Modifié par Sabriana, 08 avril 2010 - 05:27 .

[darkmax1974]

You still miss my standpoint. I must say, your language capacity is much better than most first language users though.

I am just using "facepalm" to highlight the general l33t speech/talk, or whatever it is termed. If these terms are acceptable, then perhaps the authors and writers of Dragon Age should implement them into their future sequels. It is all the same, is it not? As long as the expressions and meaning can be brought across the wide audience the game aims at.

And I am right in that you are arguing because you can't stand not to have the last say in this.

Modifié par darkmax1974, 08 avril 2010 - 05:57 .

[Xandurpein]

darkmax1974 wrote...

You still miss my standpoint. I must say, your language capacity is much better than most first language users though.

I am just using "facepalm" to highlight the general l33t speech/talk, or whatever it is termed. If these terms are exceptable, then perhaps the authors and writers of Dragon Age should implement them into their future sequels, no? It is all the same, is it not? As long as the expressions and meaning can be brought across the wide audience.

and I am right in that you are arguing because you can't stand not to have the last say in this.

Umm... I'm beginnig to wonder if you are arguing for the sake arguing yourself. No one is arguing that the use of emoticons should be used in Dragon Age. It is very inapropriate to the theme and product. Are you arguing yourself that only quasi medieval phrases be allowed on the Forum? Different words and use of langauge is apropriate in different situations and contexts. That should be obvious to everyone. You are just mixing contexts to muddle things.