321 réponses à ce sujet

[UpDownLeftRight]

Hello everyone! Hope you are all feeling well!:happy:

From my readings I have experienced that there is a division in the forums between people who support an idea of human dominance and people who support an idea of being a part of the galactic community.

My question is simple. Why?
Why should I support humanity more than the other species?
and
Why should I support an idea of humans being a part of the galactic community instead of being dominant?

Oh, please come up with good arguments/reasons. Saying "You have to support humanity because it's your species!" is not a good reason. That is a bad excuse.
Saying "We have to work together because we are all equal!" is not a good reason. That is a bad excuse.

Let me hear your thoughts! Have nice day!

[Inquisitor Recon]

I am so badass I can make two posts with one click.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 08 avril 2010 - 02:20 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

I would be all pro-humanity, but government, politics, and society wise, I doubt it is as united as other species. The right people need to be in charge. Perhaps reverse engineer some of that Reaper indoctrination tech to ensure this is done... Emperor Shepard has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

I support human/alien alliance cause I know very well that humans are corrupt as is, and that aliens are just as corrupt, no point in making enemies, nor is there is any point in not mixing the bowl up.

[UpDownLeftRight]

ReconTeam wrote...

I would be all pro-humanity, but
government, politics, and society wise, I doubt it is as united as other
species. The right people need to be in charge. Perhaps reverse
engineer some of that Reaper indoctrination tech to ensure this is
done... Emperor Shepard has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

But
WHY would you be pro-humanity?

ReconTeam
wrote...



I am so badass I can make two posts
with one click.

Haha, Badass FTW!

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

I support human/alien alliance cause I know very well that humans are corrupt as is, and that aliens are just as corrupt, no point in making enemies, nor is there is any point in not mixing the bowl up.

Intriguing! Let's see what the others will say.

[Vaenier]

I say: All hail our computer overlords. We compute pie all day, and sometimes we get to compute cake.



Pro aliens because I hate humans. I would prefer to get rid of all government and replace it with a computer. All logic, no emotions, no greed, no corruption.

[Bigdoser]

Pro-Alien Cooperation I think its better to form more allies and build bridges than crush everyone under your heel if humanity is in trouble which allies can we call on if everyone hates our guts?

[PTPR]

I believe in human/alien cooperation because intellectually we are all the same. I could talk to a Turian and get the same response from a human. What is the point of human domination? To further the species until, what, we kill ourselves off? In the end it would come back to bite us.

[Zalocx]

Huge Killer Machine Gods are on their way



Humans just CAN'T win that fight alone, or if the miraculously do there will be ridiculous amounts of casualties



Super Human-Turian-Asari-Salarian-Geth-Quarian-Elcor-Hanar-Volus-Batarian-Krogan-Rachni Super Fleet is our only hope



That and my Shepard solving centuries old intergalactic disputes with a few lines of paragon dialogue makes me feel all happy and stuff

[PTPR]

Oh and I also believe more diversity creates a stronger force.

[The RPGenius]

Two reasons for cooperation, to me.



1. It's long-term pro-humanity anyway. Unless ME3 gives Renegades an option to commandeer the Reapers to destroy every non-human sentient out there, the long-term survival and success of the species depends on proving itself to other species and forging bonds with them--one species's superiority is not going to last forever, be it humanity or any other, no matter how effectively and ruthlessly Shepard sets it up. Inserting humanity into galactic affairs as an important and powerful, but desirable and amiable part is a safer and more moral way to guarantee the prosperity of humanity--not to mention that there are advancements and successes that other races will have that humanity won't, and they can share them if they're so inclined. A subjugated race isn't likely to make the advancements it could have, and thus humanity misses out on the opportunity to share those advancements as partners. Even Cerberus understands that much--the Illusive Man recognizes the brilliance Mordin brings to the table, Thane's incredible skills, Samara's great abilities, Tali's technical genius, and Grunt's (well, Okeer's) raw power. When the chips are down, the main head of pro-human movements is forced to recognize at least a small need for balance and inter-species cooperation.

2. Frankly, we SHOULD all work together because we ARE all equal. Sorry that you don't think that's a good reason, but sentient beings are sentient beings to me. Thane is as capable of spirituality, Samara as capable of discipline and honor, Liara of innocence held, lost, and regained, Wrex of inner reflection, Tali of friendship and determination, Garrus of hunger for justice, Legion of desire and ambition, Grunt of satisfaction and hedonism, and Mordin of...well, EVERYTHING, as any human. They think and feel, and that makes them people in my eyes. And so pro-human dominance, to me, is the same thing as any human group trying to unfairly subjugate other humans and rule them as tyrants. Maybe morality for morality's sake isn't good enough a reason in your eyes, but it is in mine, and that's what I've got for my major reason.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Bigdoser wrote...

Pro-Alien Cooperation I think its better to form more allies and build bridges than crush everyone under your heel if humanity is in trouble which allies can we call on if everyone hates our guts?

Ah, but the empire it take to crush everybody under it's heel would be badass indeed.

Basically I would like to see a stronger humanity willing to take risks, but one that is still part of the council and willing to work with other races when it is beneficial. I would have a fleet to match or exceed any other race, the will to go in and kick some ass even without the council's permission, and a people who are more united, driven, and focused. I see the fact that the Turians are more loyal and place a high value on duty and honor as major strengths on their part.

[InHarmsWay]

There are pros and cons to both sides of the spectrum. I'll try to cover each side as best I can.



Pro-human:

Generally the galaxy just doesn't like humans. Batarians, Turians, Asari, Salarians, etc. They seem humans as too pushy when they are achieving more in a few decades than most species achieve in centuries. From this view point, it is unlikely to gain their trust and initiative in time when the Reapers show up. Also to mention that the Council is borderline retarded and hypocritical. They act all high and mighty, but they have several genocides in their history, and they're not the least bit sorry about it (victims include Rachni[total genocide], Krogan[sterilize] and Quarians[making them wander around the universe being one hull breach away from extinction]). Also they choose consistently to go for the path easiest to take regardless of the horrors that path will unleash in the future. Not to mention their anti-intellectualism. They have dozens of laws prohibiting the understanding of the Citadel(ie. Keepers). Even after the Citadel was attacked by a "Geth Dreadnought" they did not take initiative to fight back against the Geth by possible getting aid from the Quarians to take the fight to Rannoch. No they left the geth to their own devices, even if that means creating another "Geth Dreadnought".



Most alien species are so focused on their own problems that the idea of cooperation is ridiculous at best. So in a pro-human direction, you have the collector base with untold amounts of data and technology available that could help destroy the Reapers and leaving humanity as the sole leaders of the galaxy.



Pro-Cooperation:

Humans are not much better. Both sides have terrible history. Even as strong as humanity is, allies will make you stronger(words from Shepard). Every race have their own strengths and weaknesses. As a united force, it would be unstoppable. ME2(your squad of diverse characters) suggested this idea that through cooperation across species, you can overcome any challenge. Humanity's fleet is not as large as the Asari or Turians. The idea of making your fleet the driving force is laughable. We need to compensate for each other's weakness so that the Reapers would have one hell of a fight. It will be the harder path to unite the galaxy, but having several fleet, as oppose to a strong human fleet, would be key to defeating the Reapers.



In terms of the Collector's base, a Reaper IFF nearly got the Normandy SR2 destroyed. That was just a small beacon. A derelict Reaper was still able to indoctrinate. A collector base would had as many, if not more, risks than benefits. The base could have had viruses or other traps. Also the base would have been taken by Cerberus who have a track record of sacrificing squads of marines and colonies, torturing children, unethical experiments, blowing up a Quarian ship (risking thousands of lives), and trying to kill Shepard in ME1.



Whether side you choose all deals with your perspective of how to get the job done. Both sides have sacrifices to make. Some sacrifices are people. Some are beliefs or morals. An act could be evil initially, but with a noble goal. A good act could also have negative consequences. Both sides have their share of problems. That's what makes this game great. In these forums we debate about what is right or wrong. The ethics of "the ends justifying the means".



I hope this helps.

[Collider]

We need to be cooperative. Humanity has just arrived on the scene in the galaxy. Everyone has invested something into the galaxy, let us rule cooperatively.

[enormousmoonboots]

Humans should cooperate simply out of respect, if nothing else. Other species have been running the galaxy for thousands of years, what gives us the right to step up and tell them ME AND MY FIFTY YEARS OF GALACTIC EXPLORATION KNOW MORE THAN YOU? Humanity is really short-sighted. Pretty much total agreement with RPGenuis on both points, too.

[Collider]

I don't think you can call humanity collectively short-sighted.

[Inquisitor Recon]

For a group that has been running things for a few thousand years, the council has been pretty damn incompetent.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

ReconTeam wrote...

For a group that has been running things for a few thousand years, the council has been pretty damn incompetent.

yes well I honestly don't think humanity would do an better job even so, instead of one cry-baby race, they have how many? dozens? with how many individual disputes that must be solved? It's ridicilious to believe that they have not tried their hardest, they may have gotten the most horrible results, but at least the galaxy is in one piece.

Collider wrote...

I don't think you can call humanity
collectively short-sighted.

Due note, that i did not make the humanlity is short sighted statement, but i do agree with it.
Collectively.... yeah actually I can from my view point, humans have an tendency to leave things to the last minute, it's in our nature sadly. I rarely see anyone at my college doing anything way before the assignment is due, maybe some basic wet-work on it, but nothing that finalies and completes it untill an week or even hours prior to the assignment is due. Humans need some major major motivation in order to get things done early, failure usually means very very bad things happen.

Humans also have an tendency to with the path of least resistence, it is after all, easier and less stressful to do things this way. Perhaps not always better, but it does, the council's decision pretty much reflects that these group of aliens have pretty much the same habits.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 08 avril 2010 - 02:59 .

[Collider]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...
Due note, that i did not make the humanlity is short sighted statement, but i do agree with it.
Collectively.... yeah actually I can from my view point, humans have an tendency to leave things to the last minute,

Uh, maybe they do, but not everyone procrastinates. College students =/= human race. We are not talking about lazy college students with homework, instead we're talking about galactic politics...There are plenty of people who work hard and try to get things done as early as possible. Even more so, you could say, due to our shorter lifespans.

Modifié par Collider, 08 avril 2010 - 03:01 .

[DPSSOC]

An easy way to look at it, and how I choose to look at it, is to view the Asari, Salarians, Turians, etc. as nations rather than species. Then ask yourself why shoud you support your nation, why should you support cooperation with other nations.



1 reason to support humanity is that they're the ones most likely to forward initiatives in your best interests. Relying on the Salarians or Asari to do it is just ineffective and you run into the problem of the other species most likely have no idea what the wants and needs of humanity are even if they can be made to care.



The opposite is also true, by supporting human domination you reduce the risk of the other species putting forward and passing initiatives in their species best interests at your expense.



Finally the sad fact is we are not all equal. Power has always rested with those who are willing to stand up and take it, by presenting a united human front we increase our ability to seize and maintain power.



Now in support of cooperation.



A big advantage to cooperation is the increase in the rate of advancement. By cooperating with aliens it encourages them to share their technology with us (and vice versa) which allows us to bring new perspective on how it can be used.



Also it's ultimately easier to get things done. When you attempt to dominate others even the most sensible ideas put forward will be met with all the resistance they can muster, and if you don't allow political resistance they will resort to military, this greatly slows down the process of getting things done. By cooperating and incorporating give and take into all initiatives you can pass initiatives through faster though you don't get as much.

[enormousmoonboots]

Collider wrote...

I don't think you can call humanity collectively short-sighted.

Good point, it's not like major human governments have ever caused a pollution crisis or energy crisis or something like tha--oh wait.

Also, keep in mind that the turians encountered humanity trying to activate an unidentified mass relay; it's dumb luck we didn't kick off another Rachni War (I know the Rachni were aggravated by the Reapers, but the point still stands--there's a very good reason not to go around switching on mass relays).

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

Collider wrote...

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...
Due note, that i did not make the humanlity is short sighted statement, but i do agree with it.
Collectively.... yeah actually I can from my view point, humans have an tendency to leave things to the last minute,

Uh, maybe they do, but not everyone procrastinates. College students =/= human race. We are not talking about lazy college students with homework, instead we're talking about galactic politics...There are plenty of people who work hard and try to get things done as early as possible. Even more so, you could say, due to our shorter lifespans.

Not everyone, but even galactic politics take forever on their own to get anything done, Why is that? Politics are in the same boat as college students, or really any job. You always have procrastinators wthether that be aides, the politicatains themselves, or whatever. That aide who didn't make that call 5 days ago to set up appointment pushed X or Y bill that needed to be done back another 5 months or prevent politcatain A from contacting politicatiain B and convicing him that said bill needs to be passed.

Actually our life spans are getting the point where they are double, if not triple what they used to be. (dying at age 40ish). I am not saying everyone works collectively to the same goal, because we don't unless we aboustely have to. Unless We have purpose for doing it or the said job doesn't rank high enough pirority in their list to do it right now. If an asteriod was to hit the earth in 11 years, A fair amount of  humans would more than likely be working towards an goal to help in some way to avoid disaster. As the time grows closer, more and more humans would pitch in someway.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 08 avril 2010 - 03:23 .

[Collider]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

Collider wrote...

I don't think you can call humanity collectively short-sighted.

Good point, it's not like major human governments have ever caused a pollution crisis or energy crisis or something like tha--oh wait.

It's not like major human governments have ever employed energy management and anti-pollution programs before...oh wait. Humans are individual. A lot of the pollution and energy problems we've caused was not due to knowing negligence, but that we did not understand the field of science associated with it quite enough. You can't blame us for that. Calling humanity short-sighted is a generalization, and almost comedic considering you yourself human. What do you have to compare humanity against? Yourself? You're human.

Also, keep in mind that the turians encountered humanity trying to activate an unidentified mass relay; it's dumb luck we didn't kick off another Rachni War (I know the Rachni were aggravated by the Reapers, but the point still stands--there's a very good reason not to go around switching on mass relays).

We can hardly be blamed for that. We had no idea there were regulations against it.

[Big Yam]

Pro-human all the way. Cooperation is just a tool to achieve that. re: aliens - use 'em and lose 'em. My shep will be the king of the galaxy.

[PTPR]

To tell you the truth, if humanity is short-sighted so is every other species. Have you ever considered the way they treat humans to be stupid?

Also politicions=/=everyone