321 réponses à ce sujet

[Speakeasy13]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Racist!

Delicious!

[Azorgamer]

Honestly the reason I am for humanity being part of the galactic community is because I don't trust humanity. Now, before I get yelled at - let me explain.

I love humans, I'm a human - but for some weird reason, once humans make a government, in time, things seem to go a bit haywire - example, Napolean, Hitler, Stalin, Ambassador Udina (yes, I said it), etc... I know these are the extremes, but since the galaxy is filled with a ton of different races, it's not fair for humans to be in charge - sure we've done a great job at times, but we've also screwed up royally.

So simply, I think the galaxy should be run by a council of all races because we should be able to succeed or screw up together - not just one race having all the power. That is to much responsibility/power for one group.

[Speakeasy13]

Azorgamer wrote...

Honestly the reason I am for humanity being part of the galactic community is because I don't trust humanity. Now, before I get yelled at - let me explain.
I love humans, I'm a human - but for some weird reason, once humans make a government, in time, things seem to go a bit haywire - example, Napolean, Hitler, Stalin, Ambassador Udina (yes, I said it), etc... I know these are the extremes, but since the galaxy is filled with a ton of different races, it's not fair for humans to be in charge - sure we've done a great job at times, but we've also screwed up royally.
So simply, I think the galaxy should be run by a council of all races because we should be able to succeed or screw up together - not just one race having all the power. That is to much responsibility/power for one group.

Well said. BTW I think the Council should be run EXCLUSIVELY by delicious racist kittens.

[Lord Coake]

Pro-Alien Cooperation, all the way.

It's far better to stand as one amongst many, working for the same goal (stability, prosperity, peace) than to stand alone and try to lord it over everybody else. That way lies chaos, poverty and war. On all levels, communities last longer than individuals.

The Council/Citadel has every reason and right to be leery and suspicious of humanity right now. We're the new kids on the block, have shown that we're crafty, intelligent and expansionist. We also fight like Krogan, just faster, are just as ruthless as the Batarian enemy, can be just as deceptive as the Salarians, and have a powerful culture than can drown others out like the Asari.  We are -in a word- Predators, and we really don't even try to hide it.

And it's far preferable to use all that growing power to join with other races to create a stronger whole than to attempt to take them all on in some fit of delusional superiority. The Krogan tried that stunt, and got put down. Hard.

Modifié par Lord Coake, 09 avril 2010 - 05:11 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Racist!

Delicious!

Ugh... How much delicious?

[Speakeasy13]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Racist!

Delicious!

Ugh... How much delicious?

*hands Zulu kitten drumstick* take a bite:devil:

[Zulu_DFA]

Lord Coake wrote...

(stability, prosperity, peace)

Stagnation, degradation, oblivion.

[Zulu_DFA]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Racist!

Delicious!

Ugh... How much delicious?

*hands Zulu kitten drumstick* take a bite:devil:

No, thank you. I don't want a war kitten to come up my leg someday.

*runs away*

[Speakeasy13]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

No, thank you. I don't want a war kitten to come up my leg someday.

*runs away*

Too late *Points for Zulu to see war kittens with TIM faces climbing up his legs*

Modifié par Speakeasy13, 09 avril 2010 - 05:24 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

No, thank you. I don't want a war kitten to come up my leg someday.

*runs away*

Too late *Points for Zulu to see war kittens with TIM faces climbing up his legs*

*Tries to snap out of the nightmare... *

*Fails to do so*.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!!!!!

___________________________________________________

[Speakeasy13]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

*Tries to snap out of the nightmare... *

*Fails to do so*.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!!!!!

KASUMING DIRECT CONTROL:devil:

[Alamar2078]

I support cooperation because it's likely that we can progress further & faster working with others than working against [perception?] the rest of the galaxy.

[Zulu_DFA]

Alamar2078 wrote...

I support cooperation because it's likely that we can progress further & faster working with others than working against [perception?] the rest of the galaxy.

Ah, "progress"... We have dismissed that claim.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Who cares about cooperation? Its not like either side can be trusted. The humans want a power grab. The Turians want to impose order on the other races, the Asari use the other races for their own needs and the Salarians are just awesome.

[abstractwhiz]

Let's just put the Geth in charge of the council. They'll insist upon everyone's right to self-determinate, and kick the asses of anyone who tries to screw with anybody else. And since their hardware lacks the unfortunate quirks imposed by organic evolution, they'll even be fair about it, and being so fundamentally different from everyone else, they won't have too many conflicts of interest. 

On a more serious note, though - look at the long term here. Trying to take control of the galaxy is a terrible idea, because eventually your empire will be overthrown and your people quite possibly killed. Empires sometimes work on earth because we're all the same species, so our motivations are by and large the same. The cultures of the conqueror and conquered usually intermingle to some degree, and soon there isn't much difference between them. That's pretty much the only reasonable way to sustain something like that. Either your empire becomes indistinguishable from the people you conquered, or you're wiped out by an internal or external threat. That sums up the history of pretty much all empires that ever existed.

Sadly, assimilation won't happen if you're trying to dominate other species, because they're not human. So you're doomed to be ****ed over in the long run. Better to make friends, strengthen yourself, be nice but don't let anyone push you around, treat aliens as well as you would treat humans, and cooperate when it is in your best interests. Try and set up an empire and you will wind up screwing humanity over, whether or not you have Reaper tech. It's just a matter of time. <_<

Actually, the whole premise of this discussion is flawed, since the chances of something like the ME universe happening is next to nil. If we ever run into another species, the difference in technology will probably be an order of magnitude, and these questions of 'dominance' will never arise. On top of that, none of the aliens are really alien (except the Geth to some extent) - they're just human-analogs that look funny. This business of 'dominance' only works between different groups of the same species. 

Shouldn't let that stop the discussion though, I loves me a good argument! 

[Lord Coake]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Lord Coake wrote...

(stability, prosperity, peace)

Stagnation, degradation, oblivion.

Stability, prosperity and peace are the goals, not the means.  All of those are born from conflict, strife and hardship as the rewards for being able to shoulder the burden and endure.  Maintaining them takes even more conflict, as one must fight to keep what they've built and earned through blood, sweat, tears and toil.

Which agues even more in favor of inter-species cooperation.  Stagnation and it's ilk only settle in when peoples say "good enough."  Which, by the way, is the feeling I get when I look at what the Citadel/Council peoples were before humankind showed up.  They were safe, comfortable and unchallenged.

And as Wrex puts it so perfectly "Something that isn't regularly challenged becomes weak."

Thats why so may people in high places in the Citadel don't like Humanity that much, and many more embrace us.  We're shaking things up.  Doing things different.  Not necessarily better, but new.

Modifié par Lord Coake, 09 avril 2010 - 10:47 .

[Nightwriter]

Arijharn wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...


No it's not. Doser's quite right.

An example? Oh, let me consult my examples archive...

How about I, Robot? Why did Will Smith hate robots? Because he'd gotten into an accident and the robot that saved him didn't save the little girl who was also trapped in a car underwater - the robot calculated the girl had, what, an 11% chance for survival? Will Smith had higher chances, so the robot saved him.

Now this was quite a logical decision that I also think was completely wrong. The right decision, imo, is to save the child, no matter the odds.

I just have to point out here that Emergency Service teams would actually automatically seek to save the one person who has a higher chance of survival regardless of whether said person is 11 years old or 50. There is no 'right decision' since you're arbritrarily stating that one person's life is more valuable than anothers, and isn't this exactly what you get pissed off in regards to TIM/Cerberus?

Now this has me very curious, actually. How could EMT's calculate odds down to a percentage like a robot can?

In the situation I'm talking about, there were two cars underwater, side by side, one with a man trapped inside, one with a little girl trapped inside. I would think the EMTs would've tried to rescue both - looking at the situation, how could a human possibly calculate who had the better chances?

Anyway, it is an imperfect human flaw of mine that I place high value on children. Instinct. I admit it.

People hate Cerberus more often than not simply because of Corporal Toombs, but we haven't been given the full story just that Toombs says he was experimented upon, we don't know the nature of the 'experiments' and he was traumatised from the Thresher Maws. Hell, I think most people would deploy a unit of marines on a local that had it's colonists disappear, it makes sense, they're marines, they have guns. They are trained.

Not sure what you're talking about with this last bit, but I certainly don't disapprove of Cerberus just for Toombs. The e-mail he sent me! Hmph. You'd think I hadn't helped him at all...

[ntw17]

look at history. during the cold war and due to the truman doctrin we intervened in many other countries, even destabilized many govermants and supported bloody dictators who claimed they were fighting communis. Change all those other nations to aliens and you have ur galactic polotics. pro human ok. DOMINANCE however will not work. hasnt worked ever before in history. why would it work now?

[Zulu_DFA]

Lord Coake wrote...
Stagnation and it's ilk only settle in when peoples say "good enough."  Which, by the way, is the feeling I get when I look at what the Citadel/Council peoples were before humankind showed up.  They were safe, comfortable and unchallenged.

So, you just want to join them in it?

I'm all for cooperation, but the aliens clearly need to be beaten in the butt, very hard, to be made to cooperate.

All they do as of now is "dismissing the claims".

So Human dominance I say. Then, we shall see.

[UpDownLeftRight]

[quote]Shandepared wrote...
You don't have any choice to do that. You can still pay your taxes and
consume goods but still provide "aid and comfort" to the enemy. Why
don't we turn this question around: why shouldn't you support your
people?

If you like the society you are living in then why not
support it?
[/quote]

Sure, but in that case that aid possibly has to be a little more "Direct".

Answer to your question: I see no reason NOT to support "my" people. Hence, I support them.

I just see no reason for why I should make sure that my society dominates any other society when the "goodness" of my society isn't true, but subjective.

Scenario A: I like Society X. That only makes Society X subjectively good in my subjective opinion, not truthfully good, so to speak. Hence I see no reson for why one subjective entity should dominate another subjective entity when neither is objectively better.


[quote]I wrote two long paragraphs about that. In my opinion if you don't care
at all about the people around you then you're selfish. What facts would
you need here?
[/quote]

But nowhere did I state any interest in self-preservation or that I valued my existance.
More importantly, I wondered why I should care about more group A than group B. I have no opinion about "my" people since I do not know them. I only have opinions about those I know. I have no opinion about other people, I do not know them. I have only opinions about those I have met. If I would have an opinion about any of them it would be a generalization not an "educated" opinion.
But do I care for them? Yes.

Therefore I do not see for why I should deem one group more valuable than another.

That is why I questioned you, not to "troll" you or anything like that.

I hope I explained it well and that you understand what I'm trying to convey.

If I won't hear from you this day or if you won't hear more from me this day I wish you a good day!


[/quote]

Modifié par UpDownLeftRight, 10 avril 2010 - 01:49 .

[Zulu_DFA]

wiggles89 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
I'm all for cooperation, but the aliens clearly need to be beaten in the butt, very hard, to be made to cooperate.

Haha. If they're forced to coopoerate then they're not really, y'know, cooperating, are they?

They will be. And Humans will be the operators. Now they are just malfunctioning. And waiting for the Reapers to come. Or something else equally bad.