321 réponses à ce sujet

[Goodwood]

I'm certainly on board with your line of thought, Nightwriter. All too often, when contemplating events of galactic importance, we forget about those close friendships, that sense of esprit d'corps, the basic network of support that Shepard needs in order to succeed in her mission. In the end, it's not about simple survival; if it was, we'd have willingly sold ourselves into Reaper slavery. It's about being able to flourish, on our own terms, setting our own paths. Such trails are easier to blaze when you've got friends and allies to help you mark them, and to spot the pitfalls before it's too late.

We cannot simply forge blindly ahead, hoping that we can charge through the jungle without running afoul of the hidden dangers. Action without haste, urgency without thoughtlessness; this should be our mantra when facing enormous odds. If there are disagreements -- and there will be disagreements -- we should be willing and able to take all necessary steps to resolve them peacefully and amicably.

If you can't see that, Shand, or think it's just a pipe dream, that really shouldn't be any skin off our teeth. By your own admission, you're only a very pushy, very vocal, and very verbose troll -- but not as subtle as you'd like to think.

[Goodwood]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Sometimes you need to look at the small picture to remember what's important, and what you should be fighting for.

I fight for the big picture, not for my friends. They're expendable.

"With friends like these, who needs enemies?" -- Anonymous

[Bigdoser]

Goodwood wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Sometimes you need to look at the small picture to remember what's important, and what you should be fighting for.

I fight for the big picture, not for my friends. They're expendable.

"With friends like these, who needs enemies?" -- Anonymous

I was just about to say that.

[Goodwood]

Bigdoser wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Sometimes you need to look at the small picture to remember what's important, and what you should be fighting for.

I fight for the big picture, not for my friends. They're expendable.

"With friends like these, who needs enemies?" -- Anonymous

I was just about to say that.

Great minds think alike...

I hereby declare an anti-troll quote pyramid against Shandepared!

Modifié par Goodwood, 09 avril 2010 - 04:47 .

[Nightwriter]

Goodwood wrote...

I'm certainly on board with your line of thought, Nightwriter. All too often, when contemplating events of galactic importance, we forget about those close friendships, that sense of esprit d'corps, the basic network of support that Shepard needs in order to succeed in her mission. In the end, it's not about simple survival; if it was, we'd have willingly sold ourselves into Reaper slavery. It's about being able to flourish, on our own terms, setting our own paths. Such trails are easier to blaze when you've got friends and allies to help you mark them, and to spot the pitfalls before it's too late.
We cannot simply forge blindly ahead, hoping that we can charge through the jungle without running afoul of the hidden dangers. Action without haste, urgency without thoughtlessness; this should be our mantra when facing enormous odds. If there are disagreements -- and there will be disagreements -- we should be willing and able to take all necessary steps to resolve them peacefully and amicably.
If you can't see that, Shand, or think it's just a pipe dream, that really shouldn't be any skin off our teeth. By your own admission, you're only a very pushy, very vocal, and very verbose troll -- but not as subtle as you'd like to think.

I completely agree, Goodwood. That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

My conversations with Shand seem to devolve into him taking Din Korlak's part and my taking Ambassador Calyn's. But what can you do?

[Onyx Jaguar]

Shandepared wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

"With friends like these, who needs enemies?" -- Anonymous

I'll sacrifice the individuals to spare the whole, even if they're people that I'll miss. Somebody must look at the big picture. That somebody is Commander Shepard.

It is unwise to look at what might happen, you should only look at what will happen.

[Goodwood]

Nightwriter wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

I'm certainly on board with your line of thought, Nightwriter. All too often, when contemplating events of galactic importance, we forget about those close friendships, that sense of esprit d'corps, the basic network of support that Shepard needs in order to succeed in her mission. In the end, it's not about simple survival; if it was, we'd have willingly sold ourselves into Reaper slavery. It's about being able to flourish, on our own terms, setting our own paths. Such trails are easier to blaze when you've got friends and allies to help you mark them, and to spot the pitfalls before it's too late.

We cannot simply forge blindly ahead, hoping that we can charge through the jungle without running afoul of the hidden dangers. Action without haste, urgency without thoughtlessness; this should be our mantra when facing enormous odds. If there are disagreements -- and there will be disagreements -- we should be willing and able to take all necessary steps to resolve them peacefully and amicably.

If you can't see that, Shand, or think it's just a pipe dream, that really shouldn't be any skin off our teeth. By your own admission, you're only a very pushy, very vocal, and very verbose troll -- but not as subtle as you'd like to think.

I completely agree, Goodwood. That's exactly what I'm trying to say.

My conversations with Shand seem to devolve into him taking Din Korlak's part and my taking Ambassador Calyn's. But what can you do?

You know what the funniest part is? That it is entirely possible to be able to recognize and value one's friendships and support while still being able to expand one's focus. This is the quality that separates generals from colonels, good leaders from bad; it's not about tactical vs. strategic, it's incorporating both. The phrase "cannot see the forest for the trees" and its inverse metaphor comes to mind.

Modifié par Goodwood, 09 avril 2010 - 04:52 .

[Nightwriter]

Goodwood wrote...

You know what the funniest part is? That it is entirely possible to be able to recognize and value one's friendships and support while still being able to expand one's focus. This is the quality that separates generals from colonels, good leaders from bad; it's not about tactical vs. strategic, it's incorporating both.

[Goodwood]

Shandepared wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

It is unwise to look at what might happen, you should only look at what will happen.

Tell me. What will happen. What unkown are we talking about here?

Onyx's quote sounds like it might have come from Sun Tzu.

In essence, what he's saying is that, when examining available data, it is wisest to focus on the probabilities that said data implies or predicts, rather than the possibilities that some small facet of that data may arouse in our more fanciful flights of imagination.

[Goodwood]

Nightwriter wrote...

Goodwood wrote...

You know what the funniest part is? That it is entirely possible to be able to recognize and value one's friendships and support while still being able to expand one's focus. This is the quality that separates generals from colonels, good leaders from bad; it's not about tactical vs. strategic, it's incorporating both.

I'm grinning ear to ear here, Nightwriter...

[Onyx Jaguar]

Goodwood wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

It is unwise to look at what might happen, you should only look at what will happen.

Tell me. What will happen. What unkown are we talking about here?

Onyx's quote sounds like it might have come from Sun Tzu.

In essence, what he's saying is that, when examining available data, it is wisest to focus on the probabilities that said data implies or predicts, rather than the possibilities that some small facet of that data may arouse in our more fanciful flights of imagination.

Exactly

[PTPR]

Bigdoser wrote...

PTPR wrote...

I understand why people are thinking that human dominance is bad. A lot of the awesome crew members are aliens.
But what I think what Shanepared is trying to say is that we can't rely on the council because they don't have our best interests at heart. They have their's. In the end, if it's us or them, they'll choose themselves everytime. We need to rely on ourselves.
Also, I chose to save the council in the first game. I stand by that descision.

So you rely on cerb? I think TIM is not there to help humanity he just want's to get more power and you shepard is the asset he need's to get him that said power. Also I think the collector base won't benefit humanity in any way.

No, I do not. I did not save the collector base.
But I am not supporting the council either. We need to be self-reliant as a species. That is the only way for us to move forward.

[PTPR]

I don't trust T.I.M. enough for that. If it was someone different I might, but he is too power hungry.

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

I'll sacrifice the individuals to spare the whole, even if they're people that I'll miss. Somebody must look at the big picture. That somebody is Commander Shepard.

I disagree.

In game 1 it was Udina's job to look at the big picture - he as much as told you so. In game 2 it was probably Anderson, the Council - even Cerberus might be counted.

It's Shepard's job to make sure these people don't lose perspective from looking at this great big picture too long, that they don't slip up and start ignoring what's important.

It's his job to take care of the small picture and make sure the people in power don't forget that small picture, either, because it's all these small pictures that make up the bigger picture.

[Goodwood]

We're in the presence of a Stone Deaf/Furious Typer, Nightwriter. We cannot win; the most we can do is continue to battle him with reasoned arguments for the benefit of the undecideds.

[Bigdoser]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

It's Shepard's job to make sure these people don't lose perspective from looking at this great big picture too long, that they don't slip up and start ignoring what's important.

No, Shepard's job is to fight the enemy and to win, at any cost.

What's the point of fighting if you drag everyone else your trying to protect down with the enemy? EDIT: This makes me think back to me1 garrus farther said "If the people you are trying to protect don't trust you, you have not right to protect them" If you view your friends and  squad as expendable don't be suprised if someone betrays you at a crucial moment and even if you defeat the reapers the aftermath will not look pretty.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 09 avril 2010 - 05:14 .

[PTPR]

I agree with some of what you are saying, but I can't get past the fact that T.I.M would completely destroy or control other presences in the galaxy. It would be almost the same as the reapers.