321 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

Goodwood wrote...

We're in the presence of a Stone Deaf/Furious Typer, Nightwriter. We cannot win; the most we can do is continue to battle him with reasoned arguments for the benefit of the undecideds.

You're right. Resort to emergency stockpile ammunition! Bombardment tactics!

[Bigdoser]

Just in case someone missed my edited post



What's the point of fighting if you drag everyone else your trying to protect down with the enemy? This makes me think back to me1 garrus farther said "If the people you are trying to protect don't trust you, you have not right to protect them." If you view your friends and squad as expendable don't be suprised if someone betrays you at a crucial moment and even if you defeat the reapers the aftermath will not look pretty. Plus the fact that all the other races will be out for humanity's skin.

[Goodwood]

Shandepared wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

What's the point of fighting if you drag everyone else your trying to protect down with the enemy?

What makes you think I'm trying to kill everyone else? Tali, Garrus, Wrex, Mordin, and Legion are not "everyone else". They're just individual people, people who may need to be sacrificed to save the nameless masses.

In this instance, you can't have it both ways. You either trust your companions and protect those who cannot protect themselves, or you're literally Saren 2.0, albeit with a slightly different ultimate goal (seeing as how even renegade Shepard isn't indoctrinated). Trying to mix and match just makes things worse; people would (rightfully) accuse you of, at best, having inconsistancy issues possibly brought on by your own death and resurrection and, at worst, a tragic figure who has, unfortunately, gone completely 'round the twist and can't figure out what s/he wants.

[PTPR]

Shandepared wrote...

PTPR wrote...

I agree with some of what you are saying, but I can't get past the fact that T.I.M would completely destroy or control other presences in the galaxy. It would be almost the same as the reapers.

How do you know? I think what is morely likely is he'll give humanity the tools to enforce their will.

I don't but I am going on gut instinct here. He just rubs me the wrong way.

[Goodwood]

PTPR wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

PTPR wrote...

I agree with some of what you are saying, but I can't get past the fact that T.I.M would completely destroy or control other presences in the galaxy. It would be almost the same as the reapers.

How do you know? I think what is morely likely is he'll give humanity the tools to enforce their will.

I don't but I am going on gut instinct here. He just rubs me the wrong way.

Do the comments from your crew after the fact reinforce this viewpoint? They do for me. Hell, even Miranda, Timmy's top lieutenant on this project, agrees with the destruction of the Collector base. She even gives Timmy the finger if you bring her with you to face the Human Reaper larva. In fact, I can't recall a single squadmate who thinks it was a bad idea to blow the place.

I'm genuinely curious about this, not trying to imply anything or sway your opinion.

[Nightwriter]

Bigdoser wrote...

Just in case someone missed my edited post

What's the point of fighting if you drag everyone else your trying to protect down with the enemy? This makes me think back to me1 garrus farther said "If the people you are trying to protect don't trust you, you have not right to protect them." If you view your friends and squad as expendable don't be suprised if someone betrays you at a crucial moment and even if you defeat the reapers the aftermath will not look pretty. Plus the fact that all the other races will be out for humanity's skin.

This is my standpoint, too. TIM wants to save humanity; I want to save the galaxy.

[PTPR]

Do the comments from your crew after the fact reinforce this viewpoint? They do for me. Hell, even Miranda, Timmy's top lieutenant on this project, agrees with the destruction of the Collector base. She even gives Timmy the finger if you bring her with you to face the Human Reaper larva. In fact, I can't recall a single squadmate who thinks it was a bad idea to blow the place.

I'm genuinely curious about this, not trying to imply anything or sway your opinion.

I was sure when he begged me not to blow it up. Too desperate....

[Bigdoser]

Nightwriter wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

Just in case someone missed my edited post

What's the point of fighting if you drag everyone else your trying to protect down with the enemy? This makes me think back to me1 garrus farther said "If the people you are trying to protect don't trust you, you have not right to protect them." If you view your friends and squad as expendable don't be suprised if someone betrays you at a crucial moment and even if you defeat the reapers the aftermath will not look pretty. Plus the fact that all the other races will be out for humanity's skin.

This is my standpoint, too. TIM wants to save humanity; I want to save the galaxy.

I think TIM just want's to save himself and further his own agenda. Also TIM+Collector base is not a good idea
"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's
character, give him power." -Abraham Lincoln I think in me3 TIM will show his true colours all we can do now is guess his intentions he gives some of it away if you destory the collector base IMHO.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 09 avril 2010 - 05:28 .

[Goodwood]

PTPR wrote...

Do the comments from your crew after the fact reinforce this viewpoint? They do for me. Hell, even Miranda, Timmy's top lieutenant on this project, agrees with the destruction of the Collector base. She even gives Timmy the finger if you bring her with you to face the Human Reaper larva. In fact, I can't recall a single squadmate who thinks it was a bad idea to blow the place.

I'm genuinely curious about this, not trying to imply anything or sway your opinion.

I was sure when he begged me not to blow it up. Too desperate....

Ah, Now I understand.

Heh, it seems like this is in the exact same vein of being able to "gauge people" that Miranda talks about earlier on if you asked her about Cerberus, and a big part of why she does flip on Timmy when he starts begging to keep the base.

[PTPR]

Shandepared wrote...

PTPR wrote...

I don't but I am going on gut instinct here. He just rubs me the wrong way.

Then I hope you have a smart stomach.

Yep, right everytime.

[Bigdoser]

PTPR wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

PTPR wrote...

I don't but I am going on gut instinct here. He just rubs me the wrong way.

Then I hope you have a smart stomach.

Yep, right everytime.

Sometimes you just gotta follow your gut instinct.

[Bigdoser]

Shandepared wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...
Sometimes you just gotta follow your gut instinct.

Yes, let's ignore our single most important asset.

Sometimes the logical answer is not always the right one. In some situations.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 09 avril 2010 - 05:34 .

[Bigdoser]

Shandepared wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

Sometimes the logical answer is not always the right one.

That's completely wrong.

Well that's your opinion.

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

I'm not trying to have it both ways. I think you are taking what I said and putting it in the wrong context. All I said was that Shepard should be willing to sacrifice his friends if it means saving the galaxy. That's all I'm saying. I do trust them and I rather like them, but if I hav to choose beteween them and the big picture then I'm choosing the big picture. There are bigger issues at stake than personal relationships.

From a story perspective though, players won't give two sh*ts about the big picture if you take the characters away. They're what make the story. They're what makes us able to care about the big picture at all.

[Goodwood]

Shandepared wrote...

Goodwood wrote...


In this instance, you can't have it both ways. You either trust your companions and protect those who cannot protect themselves, or you're literally Saren 2.0, albeit with a slightly different ultimate goal (seeing as how even renegade Shepard isn't indoctrinated).

I'm not trying to have it both ways. I think you are taking what I said and putting it in the wrong context. All I said was that Shepard should be willing to sacrifice his friends if it means saving the galaxy. That's all I'm saying. I do trust them and I rather like them, but if I hav to choose beteween them and the big picture then I'm choosing the big picture. There are bigger issues at stake than personal relationships.

Of course there are. Civilization itself is at stake.

The thing is, Timmy's ulterior motives are nearly as much a threat to that civilization as the Reapers are, different only in that the Reapers want to kill everyone and harvest the remains, while Timmy wants to dominate everyone (don't even try to deny it, he telegraphs this at every opportunity, he lies to you and tries to convince you it's for the greater good, and is willing to risk unleashing powers beyond his comprehension in his willingness to "save humanity").

In that sense, you really can't have it both ways; if you try to dominate, other beings will resist, including the non-humans in your squad if they have any sense. Do you then turn on those who helped you when you needed them most, all for the sake of "preseving the species" when it really doesn't need preserving by such means? Humanity is not under threat of some other "jihad" (for wont of a better term) beyond the Reapers, so once they're taken care of, why continue to hold the rest of the galaxy at arm's length? There is no logic in an isolationist philosophy; to paraphrase the mantra of the atomic age, the interstellar geine cannot be put back into the bottle. In the end, holding to ourselves is to invite the same stoicism and stagnation that nearly doomed civilization when Nazara attacked the Citadel.

[PTPR]

T.I.M. is the logical guy who thinks it's a good idea not to put a chip in your brain, then backstab you at every turn.

"Oh, sure I'll give you the base."

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

Good thing I'm not as ignorant or easily manipulated as most other players, huh?

WE HAVE NOT YET REACHED CONSENSUS ON THIS.