Nightwriter wrote...
Shandepared wrote...
Good thing I'm not as ignorant or easily manipulated as most other players, huh?
WE HAVE NOT YET REACHED CONSENSUS ON THIS.
lmao
:O:O
Pro-Human Dominance VS Pro-Alien Cooperation
Débuté par
UpDownLeftRight
, avril 08 2010 02:13
#151
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:42
Goodwood
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lmao
:O:O
Retour en haut
#152
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:43
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Goodwood wrote...
The thing is, Timmy's ulterior motives are nearly as much a threat to that civilization as the Reapers are, different only in that the Reapers want to kill everyone and harvest the remains, while Timmy wants to dominate everyone (don't even try to deny it, he telegraphs this at every opportunity, he lies to you and tries to convince you it's for the greater good, and is willing to risk unleashing powers beyond his comprehension in his willingness to "save humanity").
How is what TIM wants any different from what the Council races wound up doing?
Goodwood wrote...
In that sense, you really can't have it both ways; if you try to dominate, other beings will resist, including the non-humans in your squad if they have any sense. Do you then turn on those who helped you when you needed them most, all for the sake of "preseving the species" when it really doesn't need preserving by such means?
They haven't turned on me yet, why would they now? That would certainly make the game more interesting though.
Goodwood wrote...
Humanity is not under threat of some other "jihad" (for wont of a better term) beyond the Reapers, so once they're taken care of, why continue to hold the rest of the galaxy at arm's length?
They won't be at arms length; they'll be at legs-length; beneath our boots.
Goodwood wrote...
There is no logic in an isolationist philosophy; to paraphrase the mantra of the atomic age, the interstellar geine cannot be put back into the bottle. In the end, holding to ourselves is to invite the same stoicism and stagnation that nearly doomed civilization when Nazara attacked the Citadel.
Isolationism is what the batarians have and it is the exact opposite of what TIM wants.
Modifié par Shandepared, 09 avril 2010 - 05:46 .
#153
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:45
Bigdoser
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Shandepared wrote...
Nightwriter wrote...
From a story perspective though, players won't give two sh*ts about the big picture if you take the characters away. They're what make the story. They're what makes us able to care about the big picture at all.
Good thing I'm not as ignorant or easily manipulated as most other players, huh?
We could say that about you as well.
Oh yeah nice post night XD
Modifié par Bigdoser, 09 avril 2010 - 05:45 .
#154
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:47
Goodwood
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Wow, Shand.
All I can say to this is: good luck in the war. You think the humans will be able to stop the inevitable backlash of such an attempt to seize power in the galaxy? Hell, we'd never even see the salarians coming if they decided to pull their version of a Pearl Harbor, nevermind the fact that the turians still outnumber us in terms of soldiers in uniform and naval tonnage.
Now who's the one having trouble looking at the big picture?
All I can say to this is: good luck in the war. You think the humans will be able to stop the inevitable backlash of such an attempt to seize power in the galaxy? Hell, we'd never even see the salarians coming if they decided to pull their version of a Pearl Harbor, nevermind the fact that the turians still outnumber us in terms of soldiers in uniform and naval tonnage.
Now who's the one having trouble looking at the big picture?
#155
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:49
Teknor
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Pointless discussion. You can't argue with a militarist zealot who's pretending to be reasonable.
#156
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:49
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Goodwood wrote...
Wow, Shand.
All I can say to this is: good luck in the war. You think the humans will be able to stop the inevitable backlash of such an attempt to seize power in the galaxy?
What backlash? Humans already took the Council and the Citadel and what did the other races do? Not a damn thing. The longer they weight the less able they will be to give humanity the boot. Most especially with oodles and oodles of Reaper tech at our disposal.
What motivation would the other races have for attacking? We didn't attack them, we filled a power vacuum. A war with us would be costly, even assuming they won. They'll never go for it.
#157
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:52
Bigdoser
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Teknor wrote...
Pointless discussion. You can't argue with a militarist zealot who's pretending to be reasonable.
We can see that we are still going for the people who are on the fence
Modifié par Bigdoser, 09 avril 2010 - 05:53 .
#158
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:53
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Bigdoser wrote...
We can see that we are still going for the people who are on the fence
Then perhaps you should try your hand at making compelling arguments instead of playing to a crowd with sarcastic wit.
#159
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:56
Nightwriter
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Shandepared wrote...
Bigdoser wrote...
Sometimes the logical answer is not always the right one.
That's completely wrong.
No it's not. Doser's quite right.
An example? Oh, let me consult my examples archive...
How about I, Robot? Why did Will Smith hate robots? Because he'd gotten into an accident and the robot that saved him didn't save the little girl who was also trapped in a car underwater - the robot calculated the girl had, what, an 11% chance for survival? Will Smith had higher chances, so the robot saved him.
Now this was quite a logical decision that I also think was completely wrong. The right decision, imo, is to save the child, no matter the odds.
#160
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:57
Onyx Jaguar
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Thats my job, I am sorely absent from this debate!
#161
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 05:59
Bigdoser
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Shandepared wrote...
Bigdoser wrote...
We can see that we are still going for the people who are on the fence
Then perhaps you should try your hand at making compelling arguments instead of playing to a crowd with sarcastic wit.
I have made arguements but for you its easier to ignore them and call them wrong because it conflicts with your views. Plus sarcastic wit lightens up the disscusion.
#162
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 06:00
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Nightwriter wrote...
How about I, Robot? Why did Will Smith hate robots?
Ahh, a movie and a terrible one at that. Surely this argument will carry weight.
#163
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 06:04
Goodwood
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Logic can only get you so far. Even the Vulcans admit to this (despite being a fictional species, the fact that they sprang from the minds of humans cements the relevance). I've said it many, many times before, but here we go again: one of the keys to good leadership -- hell, to basic functionality in any sort of endeavor -- is the ability to trust your own instincts along and in cooperation with your own sense of logic.
You keep assuming that because, in your game, the other species haven't yet gotten tired of human rule, they eventually won't. History is replete with examples that disprove your assumptions -- particularly when they're as flimsy as yours. Humans have only been on the galactic stage for thirty years, and, in your universe, ruled for only two. Put Timmy on top of that pile, and I give it six months tops before the simmering resentment boils over into outright hostility. That tinderbox is only one lit match away from erupting into full-scale galactic warfare, and if that happens, humanity is screwed up the back end with a sandpaper condom.
You keep assuming that because, in your game, the other species haven't yet gotten tired of human rule, they eventually won't. History is replete with examples that disprove your assumptions -- particularly when they're as flimsy as yours. Humans have only been on the galactic stage for thirty years, and, in your universe, ruled for only two. Put Timmy on top of that pile, and I give it six months tops before the simmering resentment boils over into outright hostility. That tinderbox is only one lit match away from erupting into full-scale galactic warfare, and if that happens, humanity is screwed up the back end with a sandpaper condom.
#164
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 06:06
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Goodwood wrote...
Logic can only get you so far. Even the Vulcans admit to this...
If you're going to start pointing out fiction to support your argument then I think we are done here.
#165
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 06:08
Bigdoser
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Shandepared wrote...
Goodwood wrote...
Logic can only get you so far. Even the Vulcans admit to this...
If you're going to start pointing out fiction to support your argument then I think we are done here.
Even fiction can point out the folloys of human nature. Even if we try to deny it.
Modifié par Bigdoser, 09 avril 2010 - 06:12 .
#166
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 06:08
Goodwood
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Shandepared wrote...
Goodwood wrote...
Logic can only get you so far. Even the Vulcans admit to this...
If you're going to start pointing out fiction to support your argument then I think we are done here.
Nevermind that you completely ignored the rest of my post.
Nevermind that you really aren't interested in actual debate.
Hell, nevermind that you're a self-professed angry troll.
But now you're objecting to bringing in examples of fiction to debate the merits of other fiction?
Grow up.
#167
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 06:13
Nightwriter
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Goodwood wrote...
Wow, Shand.
All I can say to this is: good luck in the war. You think the humans will be able to stop the inevitable backlash of such an attempt to seize power in the galaxy? Hell, we'd never even see the salarians coming if they decided to pull their version of a Pearl Harbor, nevermind the fact that the turians still outnumber us in terms of soldiers in uniform and naval tonnage.
Now who's the one having trouble looking at the big picture?
#168
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 06:16
Goodwood
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Awww, shucks Nightwriter...
And Abe is definitely one of my favorite Presidents.
And Abe is definitely one of my favorite Presidents.
#169
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 06:18
FoFoZem
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Ew. Lincoln disgusts me. I hate that man.
Anyway, I would be pro-human. Mainly because it seems like my Shepard, or even Shepard in general, has been doing everything for the sake of humanity.
Sure you could blow up the collector base, or save the council, but in the end humans still have power.
It makes little sense for us, as humans being bound by human psychology, to go out of our way to help other people when the position we want is so near. Historically speaking, in the Mass Effect universe, humans and other species don't much get along.
We have the First Contact War, the fact that we essentially run council space, and general anti-human sentiment.
We are not entirely respected, and granted that is our fault, but there is no point in weakening ourselves for the betterment of some aliens.
Anyway, I would be pro-human. Mainly because it seems like my Shepard, or even Shepard in general, has been doing everything for the sake of humanity.
Sure you could blow up the collector base, or save the council, but in the end humans still have power.
It makes little sense for us, as humans being bound by human psychology, to go out of our way to help other people when the position we want is so near. Historically speaking, in the Mass Effect universe, humans and other species don't much get along.
We have the First Contact War, the fact that we essentially run council space, and general anti-human sentiment.
We are not entirely respected, and granted that is our fault, but there is no point in weakening ourselves for the betterment of some aliens.
#170
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 06:18
Bigdoser
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Even if I am not american Abraham is pretty awesome I have one his saying's in my Sig my favourite one to add.
#171
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 06:19
Onyx Jaguar
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Andrew Jackson was also pretty badass
#172
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 06:21
FoFoZem
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whoa. way too much pro-Lincoln sentiment here.
#173
Guest_Shandepared_*
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 06:21
Guest_Shandepared_*
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Bigdoser wrote...
Even if I am not american Abraham is pretty awesome I have one his saying's in my Sig my favourite one to add.
Ironic considering what Lincoln did.
#175
Posté 09 avril 2010 - 06:22
Onyx Jaguar
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Shandepared wrote...
Bigdoser wrote...
Even if I am not american Abraham is pretty awesome I have one his saying's in my Sig my favourite one to add.
Ironic considering what Lincoln did.
He would have been impeached you know if he wasn't shot. Most likely anyway.
