25 réponses à ce sujet

[soerenthemightyone]

Hey

Made it past lvl 10 and are still wearing som tier 1 leather stuff on my mage... Ia hev not put anything into strength, so I wonder if I need to put a few points into strength to bea ble to wear at least some light armour.

I havent come across anywhere where I can loot/buy light armour/leather/cloth armour, but tons and tons of the more heavy stuff...

Any advice on where I might find some decent mage gear ?

[TBastian]

That depends on what mage you have. Is he taking aggro often? In that case you should be wearing +def gear. Use the Chasind Robes (Korcari Wilds, Chasind Trails), Enchanter's Footing (Korcari Wilds, ashes mini-quest), Thane Helm/Libertarian's Cowl (Circle of Magi), and with Arcane Armor (spell) you should have a decent chance of sidestepping attacks even in nightmare. You can swap Enchanter's Footing for the Magus War Boots later but only if you released the Trickster Whim in the Circle of Magi's summoning mini-quest. Switch to +dodge gear as you approach end game, when you're a lot richer.
Noteworthy mage gear can be bought from Bodahn Frederic (camp, mid level gear), the Wonders of Thedas (Denerim, mid-high level gear), the Quartermaster from the Circle of Magi (mid-high level gear, Varathorn (low level gear), and the dwarves in the Orzammar commons (accessories). Low/mid levels tend to blur at some point so I included mid-level shops.

Light armors can work for a mage, but only if your mage is a frontliner-type. Otherwise your priority should be improving your warriors' aggro management skills. The main advantage of light armors over robes is that some grant -fatigue set bonuses, otherwise robes would easily be superior to them. In Awakenings you can also use runes on light armors.
Noteworthy light armors sets for a mage include plain leather armor and Wade's Superior Drakeskin set.

Modifié par TBastian, 08 avril 2010 - 03:24 .

[BlackVader]

Equipment doesn't matter for a mage. Really, you can run around in the best gear available and switch to running around naked without noticing too much of a difference. Yes, I'm exaggerating, but there's no mage equipment worth using in pretty much all of Origins. Most stuff will get you some minor spellpower bonus which translates to like 5% more damage which is nearly nothing.

If you want my advice, either become an Arcane Warrior so you can use almost ANYthing, or just use whatever you come across.

Oh, and I'm not saying mages aren't powerful or fun to play - they are! But the mage equipment is ... well, lacking. ... Oh, and ugly.

[TBastian]

The "most stuff will give you some minor spellpower bonus" part (along with almost everything else) is not true. However, most mage armors are indeed a fashion-conscious gamer's worst nightmare.
Mage equipment have:

a) among the highest +def bonuses in the game, which when combined with Arcane Armor and similar spells can make a mage in robes just as hard to hit as a dex-focused rogue
the best combination of dodge and spell resistance bonuses in the game

You won't find anything that can replace Spellward, First Enchanter's Cowl, Reaper's Vestments, Lifegiver and Key to the City in Awakenings, although if you went +defense there will be plenty of better stuff to choose from. I prefer Dodge and Spell Resistance though, most of the things that actually need to perform attack rolls to hit you usually die very quickly.

Modifié par TBastian, 09 avril 2010 - 06:58 .

[Lowenhart]

soerenthemightyone wrote...

Hey

Made it past lvl 10 and are still wearing som tier 1 leather stuff on my mage... Ia hev not put anything into strength, so I wonder if I need to put a few points into strength to bea ble to wear at least some light armour.

I havent come across anywhere where I can loot/buy light armour/leather/cloth armour, but tons and tons of the more heavy stuff...

Any advice on where I might find some decent mage gear ?

Mostly know for blood mages

Archon robe: (Circle of magi - Great Hall)
http://www.gamebansh...DAO_Items.id=50

Reapers Vestment: (Denerim - Wonders of Thedas)
http://www.gamebansh...AO_Items.id=758

Robes of Avernus (Warden's Keep DLC - dropped of Avernus)
http://www.gamebansh...AO_Items.id=787

If you have the DLC ofcause its also collectable at the beginning after Ostagar

EDIT: Also Wardens keep has a nice staff if you plan on using frost magic.

Modifié par Lowenhart, 09 avril 2010 - 06:37 .

[BlackVader]

TBastian wrote...

a) among the highest +def bonuses in the game, which when combined with Arcane Armor and similar spells can make a mage in robes just as hard to hit as a dex-focused rogue
the best combination of dodge and spell resistance bonuses in the game

Well, the problem is: If I want a defensive
mage, I'd play an unkillable AW anyway. And if I want an offensive mage, I'd STILL go
AW. As I already said, the spellpower bonus on almost ANY item in
Origins is next to useless. So If you want offense, you better make
sure that you can cast as many spells as possible which means mana is what it's all about. The most mana efficient gear in the game is medium armor (Wade's). And I won't even start with DLC-items (Cailan's Arms are SO overpowered on an AW...).

You won't find anything that can replace Spellward, First Enchanter's Cowl, Reaper's Vestments, Lifegiver and Key to the City in Awakenings, although if you went +defense there will be plenty of better stuff to choose from. I prefer Dodge and Spell Resistance though, most of the things that actually need to perform attack rolls to hit you usually die very quickly.

I'd say the Toque of the
Oblivious is better than the First Enchanters's Cowl in Awakening...

Oh, and - unless I'm being defensive - I'd take Awakening's Nature's
Blessing over Spellward any day.

You also forgot Andriul's Blessing on Origins. But stuff like Spellward, Andruil's, Lifegiver and the Key aren't exactly "mage equipment". They are useful for anyone, reducing your list to two vaguely useful mage items in all of Origins.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of Reaper's Vestment either, but maybe that's just me. Anyway, even with those items you listed here, there are still plenty of good reasons to use stuff heavier than cloth even in Awakening. Ever looked at stuff like the Stormchaser Gauntlets?


Ah well, let's leave it a that.  The topic was about Origins, I think, so discussing Awakening items won't be to helpful.

Modifié par BlackVader, 09 avril 2010 - 07:04 .

[TBastian]

And as I said, very few mage armors actually raise spellpower. Most are defensive.

Reaper's, First Enchanter's, Spellward, Imperial Weavers, and Key to the City combine to give a mage around 50% spell resistance and 40% dodge, along with freebies like +con and armor. That's all a mage needs to become *very* difficult to kill in Origins, unless you make it a point to have your mage suicide.



The Torque of the Oblivious sadly lacks First Enchanter's Cowl's dodge. Considering that in Awakenings Fade Armor further boosts your dodge, then dodge all the way > +5 armor. Mental/Physical resistance is not very useful for a mage, who has insane amounts of the former and too little of the latter for 10 points to be useful. So the only thing the Torque basically has to offer is +10 magic.



I'd personally take the Spellward over Nature's Blessing any day. We "other" mages don't have to deal with keeping up Shimmering Shield or having to cope with high fatigue so I'd really rather aim for and keep my 50% spell resistance and dodge in Awakenings with Arcane Shield, thanks.



Nature's Blessing is not mage specific, reducing your list to only mage gear of questionable use in Awakenings. It's not as if you really need the 10 extra spellpower, any mage should have insane spellpower by this point and should be focusing on more defensive items.



I find it odd that you failed to mention +def mage gear, which would be the only ones worth aiming for in Awakenings, as an alternative to dodge/spell resistance.



Have you seen the Awakenings mage gloves? +30% nature damage and spirit damage? +30% fire and cold damage? Quite brutal.

[Zilod]

BlackVader wrote...

Well, the problem is: If I want a defensive
mage, I'd play an unkillable AW anyway. And if I want an offensive mage, I'd STILL go
AW. As I already said, the spellpower bonus on almost ANY item in
Origins is next to useless. So If you want offense, you better make
sure that you can cast as many spells as possible which means mana is what it's all about. The most mana efficient gear in the game is medium armor (Wade's). And I won't even start with DLC-items (Cailan's Arms are SO overpowered on an AW...).

it depends, a bm+sh focused on cc/healing is a good defensive mage, aw+bm or aw+sh can be as good due to mana regen but for such templates you are generally going with control so is not that likelly you will get hit

for offensive mage aw can be good but have 2 problems...
1) you need to shelter weapons to use most spells
2) if you go with a set you are going to sacrifice the elemental bonus from gloves

not saying that aw is bad ofc as it can compensate, but speaking about mages who primary focus on casting there is always a tradeoff

[BlackVader]

@TBastian: I'm not looking at non-AW as "other mages". I have yet to find any real use for Shimmering Shield, to be honest. Also, the total fatigue of Wade's Dragonskin (roughly -10%) even lowers your manacosts.
Being an AW doesn't mean you have to walk into melee with Combat Magic and SS running all the time. I know many players do this (and I do this as well occasionally - without SS) but you can just as well take your staff and play the medium armored, highly mana efficient caster from the back row.

And I'm not saying anything is wrong about your playstyle either. I'm just saying that there's a distinct lack of spellcaster mage equipment in Origins. Mages are about casting spells and as you said yourself there are very few items that support this very role by enhancing spellcasting power - which is frustrating, to say the least.
Survivability is fine but unless you wreak havoc with area spells, a mage shouldn't draw more attention than he can handle. That's also why I didn't mention +defence items. They are just the same.
Spell Resistance is nice, too, but if you stay away from the front lines, you shouldn't be target of many spells. Stuff like Spellward usually goes to my (tanking) warrior, who can become pretty much immune to spells altogether.

I don't like +x% elemental damage items for 2 reasons. The cap is too low (I think it's capped at 35% in Origins and 50% in Awakening) and the number of spells available for each element is too small. You can't use a single element exclusively because of cooldowns and different kinds of spells (like AoE spells which are not useful in close quarters). You get a bit extra damage from these items but to make it worthwhile you have to focus all your equipment on it, sacrificing whatever stats you'd wan to have otherwise - I guess that's dodge and spell resistance for your and +mana reg for me.
Also, it would be nice if there were items that lower enemy spell resistance, increase the healing done by the mage or make his CC spells harder too resist. A bonus to Spellpower does the latter two but not in the same amount as a specialized item would do.

As for my list: I wasn't trying to make one since a list of Awakening items is useless in an Origins topic. I was just giving an example on how being an AW can improve your equipment choices even if you only use a few non-mage items.

Basically, my point is: You play a mage to cast spells. Since there are too few ways to enhance the effectiveness of your spells significantly, I go with the next best choice: Mana efficiency. And trust me, I was more than disappointed when I found out that no mage equipment comes even close to non-mage items in this regard.

@Zilod: As said above, being an AW doesn't automatically mean melee combat. No need to worry about weapon sheathing if you use a staff.

[Zilod]

ofc an aw is not forced to go melee, for caster oriented aw i prefer staff too and eventually to switch to sns if needed...



but with staff you have not a significant advantage in mana regen over a non aw as you dont get the massive +6 regen from king arms



for other equip the difference in regen is not that big... evon+wade heavy (imo best aw caster oriented armor) gives +2 to regen while tevinter robe gives +1

the tradeoff here is +1 regen and better armor and defense for aw vs more elemental dmg (from gloves) and a bit more spell power



also we should take in account tath a bm (expecially bm+sh) have no prob wih mana as he can pretty much cycle sacrifice whitout many problems, using group heal after it that will benefit the whole group.



about helms a non aw can still use honnleath helm and eventually the +0.5 regen one so even here the diff is not big



again not saying that aw is bad, it is good but it have its pros and cons

[BlackVader]

Agreed. Of course AW is not perfect either but simply having the option to use more equipment is worth getting the spec and the talent point spent on combat magic.

[Random70]

BlackVader wrote...
And I'm not saying anything is wrong about your playstyle either. I'm just saying that there's a distinct lack of spellcaster mage equipment in Origins. Mages are about casting spells and as you said yourself there are very few items that support this very role by enhancing spellcasting power - which is frustrating, to say the least.
Survivability is fine but unless you wreak havoc with area spells, a mage shouldn't draw more attention than he can handle. That's also why I didn't mention +defence items. They are just the same.
Spell Resistance is nice, too, but if you stay away from the front lines, you shouldn't be target of many spells. Stuff like Spellward usually goes to my (tanking) warrior, who can become pretty much immune to spells altogether.

As to AC / Def / Dodge / Spell Res on a mage: I'll take my CC spells over all of them any day of the week.

BlackVader wrote...
I don't like +x% elemental damage items for 2 reasons. The cap is too low (I think it's capped at 35% in Origins and 50% in Awakening) and the number of spells available for each element is too small. You can't use a single element exclusively because of cooldowns and different kinds of spells (like AoE spells which are not useful in close quarters). You get a bit extra damage from these items but to make it worthwhile you have to focus all your equipment on it, sacrificing whatever stats you'd wan to have otherwise - I guess that's dodge and spell resistance for your and +mana reg for me.

Increasing your damage by more than a third may be too low...but I'll take it. And while it's true enough that there is limited use for elemental +x%, there are a dozen or more damaging Spirit spells...

BlackVader wrote...
Basically, my point is: You play a mage to cast spells. Since there are too few ways to enhance the effectiveness of your spells significantly, I go with the next best choice: Mana efficiency. And trust me, I was more than disappointed when I found out that no mage equipment comes even close to non-mage items in this regard.

Depends upon on how you define 'significant'. Lifedrinker, Destructionist Belt and Tevinter Mage Robes (acquired cheaply and early, which was the point of this thread, initially) all provide a nice SP boost, further multiplied by Spell Might & Wisp.

[TBastian]

Dragonskin is not AW-specific. It also doesn't count as low level gear.

Survivability is fine but unless you wreak havoc with area spells, a mage shouldn't draw more attention than he can handle.

That is incorrect. That's a playstyle choice, and if you prefer having your mage to stay away from the front then fine, it's your character. A mage who can lead a charge, who can start spell-spamming as soon as he sees his enemies and who can continue casting while taking punishment has the distinct advantage of being able to control the flow of battle more than a passive mage, and as long as he doesn't do anything suicidal then taking AW is unnecessary.
I wouldn't underestimate spell resistance. Especially for a PC mage, who always stands in front during cutscenes. Fireballs and Crushing Prisons (which ignores walls) are also a constant hazard.

I don't like +x% elemental damage items for 2 reasons. The cap is too low (I think it's capped at 35% in Origins and 50% in Awakening) and the number of spells available for each element is too small. You can't use a single element exclusively because of cooldowns and different kinds of spells (like AoE spells which are not useful in close quarters). You get a bit extra damage from these items but to make it worthwhile you have to focus all your equipment on it, sacrificing whatever stats you'd wan to have otherwise - I guess that's dodge and spell resistance for your and +mana reg for me.

+elemental damage bonuses usually appear only in gloves, staves and rings. Your setup will have to sacrifice a potential set bonus + mana regen to use it, but for mine it's basically a freebie.

Stuff like Spellward usually goes to my (tanking) warrior, who can become pretty much immune to spells altogether.

Stuff like Dragonscale/Dragonskin/Warden Commander and Evon the Great's Mail usually go to my warriors (especially two-handers) who skill-spam and murder bosses with it. Spell Immunity is overrated. I am a fan of spell resistance, but I'm not about sacrifice practical efficiency to reach 100 SR when 50-70% is enough without sacrificing def, attack, damage, etc.

The reason why CC spells do not always work has more to do with spell resistance. As long as you focused on improving your magic attribute your only problem is spell resistance.

Evon the Great's Mail + Dragonscale gives you a total of +4 mana regen and +25 mana with 0 fatigue, and should be the most mana-efficient warrior armor setup. Helm could be anything (Honnleath or something similar) so you can tack in an extra +10 mana to that, at least. So +4 mana regen and +35 stamina vs aggressive gameplay + one extra advantage... an AW/X can never outcast my mage. The AW playstyle centers on Combat Magic and Shimmering Shield, and since you have no intention of using either then my mage always has 1 more specialization's worth of spells/skills against yours: SH/BloodM/ShS/BattleM/Keeper.

Still, the AW/X playstyle also has the advantage of being easier and less strategy-oriented overall. For some, this might be preferable.

Modifié par TBastian, 09 avril 2010 - 07:18 .

[BlackVader]

Ok, Spirit Damage might be worth focusing on. But even this requires a character built around it or you might end up casting other kinds of spells too often to make the equipment focus useful.

"Significant" means maybe like +20% spell effectiveness. Let me stress the term "effectiveness", which might mean damage but might also mean healing done, duration of CC or buffs or whatever. The highest spellpower boost item I can think of in Origins is the Staff of the Magister Lords with its total of +13 spellpower. The problem is that even these +13 are only a VERY minor bonus to most spells.
It's like +4 damage to Arcane Bolt,  +5 healing done by Heal. Even the spells with the highest spellpower bonus (like Crushing Prison or VWB) gain only about 20 damage from +13 spellpower - which is not that much considering their long duration and cooldowns.
And then there are too many spells that don't benefit from spellpower at all or need it only for not being resisted (mostly CC) where there's little difference between not being resisted with 100 spellpower or not being resisted with 150 spellpower.

If you want your spells to be effective, you either go for the highest possible bonus to spellpower and get a boost of questionable use for most of them or you focus on a single element and get a significant boost to that damage. The latter has the disadvantages of
a) limiting your spell selection and
only working with damage spells.

I'm not saying spellpower is useless, mind you. But the points invested in magic during level up are totally sufficient. Using items to enhance it further is a bit redundant, especially since there's some kind of diminishing return. +13 spellpower will always increas your healing by 5. But going from 50 to 55 is more significant than going from 100 to 105.
Yes, I know that's not really a diminishing return per definition. But the importance of spellpower will eventually come to a point where raising it further just doesn't make a big difference anymore.

[TBastian]

Any or all of the "elements" can be worth focusing on.You only need at least 4 spell points ("limiting your spell selection?" that's absurd) and the proper gloves (these alone should give you +20% damage in something). The rest, you can get from a staff. Using rings is optional.
Of course they only work on damage spells. How else are you supposed to kill things with your mage?
Obviously a healer/passive mage alone would not find these bonuses useful.

Modifié par TBastian, 09 avril 2010 - 07:16 .

[BlackVader]

TBastian wrote...

Any or all of the "elements" can be worth focusing on.You only need at least 4 spell points ("limiting your spell selection?" absurd)

There are like ... 2 (?) nature damage spells. Focussing your equipment just to make 2 spells more powerful doen't seem like a good idea to me. The other elements have 3-4 damage spells, most of them are situational (Blizzard in a small room might be a bad idea).

All those spells can be useful and have their rightful place in a mage's spellbook. But using special equipment to increase their damage if you might not even use them all that often? I wouldn't do that.

Of course they only work on damage spells. How else are you supposed to kill things with your mage?
Obviously a healer/passive mage alone would not find these bonuses useful.

That's (part of) the problem with the mage equipment in Dragon Age (especially Origins). The selection is extremely limited. There simply are no items meant for CC or healing mages

[Zilod]

spirit is pretty good for elemental dmg due to the big nukes (mana clash, death combo) and various good dots

ice is also pretty good as it have good spells, also dont forget that if staff does elemental dmg (and there are many good ice staffs) it benefits from such bonus

electricity and fire are kinda tied, but imo behind the 2 above, the staffs are not as good and spells are decent but imo secondary to ice

nature is not worth considering



for a mage focused on primal (and generally nuking) imo is quite important to focus on at least 2 dmg as you are going to cycle various cones/singles or combo blizzard with another aoe

spell potency and generally +% to dmg can not seem that much but if you start adding them the dmg is considerable



lets say we do 40 dmg with a single spell... stacking hexes that becomes almost 80 dmg

now same spell with +13 spellpower for +5 dmg are 45 dmg, lets add 30% elemental bonus and that becomes 67.5 dmg with hexes it becomes 135 so quite a nice margin from the hexed no bonused spell and pretty good dmg from a base 40dmg spell



+% elemental dmg for sure is not necessary but imo it should be not even overlooked, expecially for chars more focused on nuking

[UpiH]

Is it true that the elemental bonus is capped at 35%? There are some combinations who'd give 50+ % to fire damage for instance.

I don't think Nature's that useless. I usually don Wynne with nature gloves, ring and staff. At least Stonefist gets heavier (given it does nature damage, I'm not 100% sure, re-downloading the DLC atm) and the Swarm stingier.

Modifié par UpiH, 09 avril 2010 - 09:10 .

[Random70]

UpiH wrote...
Is it true that the elemental bonus is capped at 35%? There are some combinations who'd give 50+ % to fire damage for instance.

Yes

UpiH wrote...I don't think Nature's that useless. I usually don Wynne with nature gloves, ring and staff. At least Stonefist gets heavier (given it does nature damage, I'm not 100% sure, re-downloading the DLC atm) and the Swarm stingier.

It's my understanding that Stonefist is currently bugged such that it actually does physical damage, making Stinging Swarm the solitary Nature damage spell.

[Random70]

TBastian wrote...
I wouldn't underestimate spell resistance. Especially for a PC mage, who always stands in front during cutscenes. Fireballs and Crushing Prisons (which ignores walls) are also a constant hazard.

Obviously a playstyle issue. Personally, I consider myself an adherent to the dictum of 'The best defense is a good offense', i.e. killing / disabling enemy mages before they cast is far more effective than attempting to resist their spells.

[UpiH]

Random70 wrote...

UpiH wrote...
Is it true that the elemental bonus is capped at 35%? There are some combinations who'd give 50+ % to fire damage for instance.

Yes

UpiH wrote...I don't think Nature's that useless. I usually don Wynne with nature gloves, ring and staff. At least Stonefist gets heavier (given it does nature damage, I'm not 100% sure, re-downloading the DLC atm) and the Swarm stingier.

It's my understanding that Stonefist is currently bugged such that it actually does physical damage, making Stinging Swarm the solitary Nature damage spell.

Ouch!

Thanks, so I don't have to don both, say, spirit/fire damage +20% gloves and +10% ring if I'm using the Staff of the Magister Lord, for instance. Leaves one ring slot for the Lifegiver ring.

[TBastian]

Obviously a playstyle issue. Personally, I consider myself an adherent to the dictum of 'The best defense is a good offense', i.e. killing / disabling enemy mages before they cast is far more effective than attempting to resist their spells.

Not a playstyle issue, a worst-case scenario issue. Even a nuker has no problem killing enemy mages/casters (not all spellcasters are mages), up until they succeed their spell resistance rolls. Or cast Anti-magic on themselves. Or cast Crushing Prison on you from the other side of a wall/as you approach them.



Fireball/Cone of Cold/Shock/Flame Blast/Winter's Grasp/Lightning are all spammable. Each time you cast these spells the +30% damage is being used. Blizzard/Inferno/Tempest/Chain Lightning in particular benefit from the +30% damage. Using them properly is more a playstyle issue though. These bonuses also affect your staff attacks.



The Shapeshifter's Flying Swarm justifies picking +nature damage. It does as much damage as Inferno minus the friendly fire. The Spider's Poison Spit is also affected.

[UpiH]

If I may chime in: Subsequent Mana Clashes by 2 mages are seldom resisted especially on normal difficulty if you've buffed your spellpower properly. Some say it's even too easy. Keep in mind, demons and shades etc are vulnerable, too. Nightmare is not that much different in that regard, you just have to pay attention to your buffs, aggro management and backup spells.



If they resist the damage, at least they'll get drained of mana. Spirit damage boosting gear helps too, of course.

[soerenthemightyone]

Thx for all the replies - got my questions answered and a whole lot more very usefull stuf as well - many thx all !

[lazorexplosion]

Caster equipment is not good enough? lulwat?

+20% single element damage alone is a ton and that's just gloves. You aren't going to get +20% damage or +10% damage or even +5% from any armor gloves. Hell, you'd be hard pressed to get that much from a whole set. Then there's 12 (!) defense from magus boots and 12 more (!!) from a cowl and then there's the tons of everything good on Reaper's vestments.

If you're making a caster mage and you waste a specialization on AW and a talent on combat magic so you can wear the armor your non-mage party members should be wearing when it isn't even better for you, you're practically certifiable in my book.

Modifié par lazorexplosion, 15 avril 2010 - 01:32 .