136 réponses à ce sujet

[catabuca]

ccconda wrote...

And The Matrix was Plato's the cave!

OH wait, none of you know what the cave is. But you DID see pocahontas as a 5 year old, so that clearly makes you critics.

Everyone's a critic. Only some are gatekeepers.

[Master Smurf]

Avatar gets a pass because it is visually phenomenal.

ME2 gets a pass (as perfect worthy successor) due to vastly improved combat and character interaction.



Scifi is mostly a satire of life - District 9 - how we treat people that are different; Avatar - how we treat our environment and greed.

Its not anti-human, its being introspective.

[mabenedict]

I kind of agree with the OP, Avatar was really just a spectacle that did not deserve all the credit thrown upon it. However I do think that Mass Effect 2 is an awesome game and does deserve its credit

[catabuca]

Master Smurf wrote...
Scifi is mostly a satire of life - District 9 - how we treat people that are different; Avatar - how we treat our environment and greed.
Its not anti-human, its being introspective.

This. Sci-fi has a long tradition of critiquing real-world politics and society. From the left and the right.

[xI extremist Ix]

vhatever wrote...

Avatar = meh. Great way to blow a billion bucks, I guess.

Not a big fan of the lame lefty anti-military, anti-business, pro-tree hugging garbage the commies in Hollywood have been puking out forever.

Lmao, Avatar was Fern Gulley with worse voice acting.

[Walrusninja]

Master Smurf summed it up pretty good I feel. Some like it some don't but it is what it is I guess. We don't all love the same things. if we did life would be majorly boring:)

I love both , I don't look for hidden meanings and things to bash I just enjoy both for what they are not what they aren't.

ps. from memory Avatar was motion captured not just cgi with voice-overs. And the story scaffolding of both is basically the "Pocahontas" story which is a true story used many times, and still valid as it still happens.

Modifié par Walrusninja, 09 avril 2010 - 05:11 .

[h455566hh]

I like ME2, I don't like Avatar.



ME2 is about good vs. evil - classic.



Avatar is about Juda - strange choice fora movie witch sands a massage to protect nature.

[TheSeventhJedi]

Okay, to everyone shouting about how one movie is just a copy of another movie, let me try something here:



A young boy is left with his aunt and uncle after an evil guy (Lord V) kills his parents. He does menial labor for his aunt and uncle while growing up, but really wants to get away because he doesn't like it there. A wizard comes and tells this young boy that he was meant for greater things, and that his parents actually had special powers which he has inherited. There is an entire community fighting Lord V, and they need this youth to develop his powers to destroy this evil.



Okay, pop quiz - did I just describe Star Wars or Harry Potter?



Think about it guys, saying a movie is really close to something else isn't really a justification for not liking it. Google the monomyth - there's a reason that certain stories get told over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and well you get my point - they resonate with human emotion in a way that only stories can. ANYTHING can be boiled down to an absurd level to make your dislike of it seem more justified. There's nothing wrong with not liking a movie, but don't act like you're superior to the millions of people who saw and liked it because you saw another movie with similar threads. You didn't like it because you didn't like it. There are plenty examples of movies who mimic and mirror other movies (even intentionally at times,) and people like them MORE than the others. It's all about the story, the characters, and how well it was told. If it didn't resonate with you, that's fine. It obviously DID resonate with millions, and be honest - the fact that it did become so popular is really why you've got your panties in a twist in the first place.

[Walrusninja]

Agreed , basically every story has been told before in some ancient text if not more recently. The "scaffolding" tends to be similar it's the "core" of the film that makes them different. I've never actually heard anyone say WHY hearing the same story a few times was a bad thing? You can read a good book many times : ?

[apotheosic]

ccconda wrote...

And The Matrix was Plato's the cave!

OH wait, none of you know what the cave is. But you DID see pocahontas as a 5 year old, so that clearly makes you critics.

*cough*that is a poor comparison because in "the cave" the cavedwellers are unable to appreciate the beauty of the outside world due to their being too comfortable with the cave, whereas in the matrix this is essentially reversed, but even so the people in the matrix who "leave the cave" generally have little desire to return, despite the outside world being a harsher place*cough*

ANYWAY. i liked both ME2 and avatar immensly, despite being rather skeptical of avatar prior to seeing it.

[LyletheBloody]

Personally, I don't really care about story predictability or the "grand scope" or what the film experts think. I go to the movies and play video games to be entertained; no movie or game has entertained me as much as Avatar and Mass Effect 2 did.

[Skilled Seeker]

BellatrixLugosi wrote...

I try to not get disappointed with things, it makes life simpler.

This. Also ME2 is great. Avatar is cliche but who watches it for the story?

[Skilled Seeker]

h455566hh wrote...

I like ME2, I don't like Avatar.

ME2 is about good vs. evil - classic.

Avatar is about Juda - strange choice fora movie witch sands a massage to protect nature.

ME2 is really not about good vs evil. One of the main themes of the story is shades of grey. If you realyl think it was about good vs evil then you didnt get it at all.

[DarthCaine]

loved both

[Juunana]

Avatar had good effects, but the plot and characters left a great deal to be desired.



I loved ME2.

[illerianna]

Mass Effect 2 is a wonderful game, and part of a wonderful franchise.

Avatar?




Oh well. At least Sam Worthington has a nice ass.

[mybudgee]

No sh*t Apocalypto RULED! I really don't give a squirt if Mel G *is* an anti- semite. That is one of two flicks in the last few years that I watched & IMMEDIATELY wanted to see again!!

[minmsjohn]

Master Smurf wrote...

Avatar gets a pass because it is visually phenomenal.
ME2 gets a pass (as perfect worthy successor) due to vastly improved combat and character interaction.

Scifi is mostly a satire of life - District 9 - how we treat people that are different; Avatar - how we treat our environment and greed.
Its not anti-human, its being introspective.

You are right about sci-fi being a satire of life. But I think Movies like District 9 and Avatar push it too far. I really enjoyed both movies. I will add them to my collection in the future. My concern is that it is almost like I am being force fed what the director and writers feel is important. Whether it is the political undertones or the ugly side of human nature.

I like when you are left to take from the movie what you feel is important, and what stands out as an important message to yourself. I have not seen a recent movie that has done this. (Know of any that are worth watching?)

Mass Effect has an excellent story. It does not try to bog you down with what the creators think is most important. Rather, BioWare created a universe (inspired by our own) and allowed us the players to take from it what we wanted. Things like the genophage. Is it good or bad or neither? What about the Rachni? These are things many modern movies do not do. They show you something and tell you how you should feel about it. They make issues one sided. That is not to say they are bad movies. They are just not open to any interpretation.

[Skilled Seeker]

Watch the hurt locker. Fantastic movie but not sci fi.

[ccconda]

Videogame forum proves to be a silly movie critic forum.



"Anti-Human" is a term i see being thrown around. REALLY? Anti-Human? You guys are bizarre, I don't want to dwell in whatever twisted world you live in, where critiquing the bad actions of people is labelled "anti-human thinking". You seriously creep me the f*ck out

[Dark Glasses]

Why waste time being disappointed?

I rather enjoy what I see.

[ccconda]

Dark Glasses wrote...

Why waste time being disappointed?
I rather enjoy what I see.

Standards and limited time.
Having both "standards" and "limited time" makes disappointment possible.

[BellatrixLugosi]

TheSeventhJedi wrote...

Okay, to everyone shouting about how one movie is just a copy of another movie, let me try something here:

A young boy is left with his aunt and uncle after an evil guy (Lord V) kills his parents. He does menial labor for his aunt and uncle while growing up, but really wants to get away because he doesn't like it there. A wizard comes and tells this young boy that he was meant for greater things, and that his parents actually had special powers which he has inherited. There is an entire community fighting Lord V, and they need this youth to develop his powers to destroy this evil.

Okay, pop quiz - did I just describe Star Wars or Harry Potter?

Think about it guys, saying a movie is really close to something else isn't really a justification for not liking it. Google the monomyth - there's a reason that certain stories get told over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and well you get my point - they resonate with human emotion in a way that only stories can. ANYTHING can be boiled down to an absurd level to make your dislike of it seem more justified. There's nothing wrong with not liking a movie, but don't act like you're superior to the millions of people who saw and liked it because you saw another movie with similar threads. You didn't like it because you didn't like it. There are plenty examples of movies who mimic and mirror other movies (even intentionally at times,) and people like them MORE than the others. It's all about the story, the characters, and how well it was told. If it didn't resonate with you, that's fine. It obviously DID resonate with millions, and be honest - the fact that it did become so popular is really why you've got your panties in a twist in the first place.

Nice post,  I actually would have never bothered to compare harry potter or star wars

[ccconda]

That is a totally different scenario. Calling a story 'unoriginal' doesn't mean it is 100% 'new'. Original=/=new.

There's so much going unsaid and unlearnt about basic storytelling here, I think I'll throw in the towel and let you all discuss flicks at your own pace.

[Vena_86]

vhatever wrote...

Avatar = meh. Great way to blow a billion bucks, I guess.

Not a big fan of the lame lefty anti-military, anti-business, pro-tree hugging garbage the commies in Hollywood have been puking out forever.

hmm how many billions are spend on military and corporation heads each month and how much on social care for everyone else (which is 99% of the people)...
Your cliché use of the word "commie" doesnt make your sarcasm any less ridiculous. The real communists (China) have banned Avatar from all but 3D-Theatres, which is almost all of them, because they didnt like the movies message of "stand up to the industry that is destroying your home".

People so blinded by propaganda without every asking questions make me sick, specially when they dont even realize that they are exactly like the enemy which the madia made them hate.

Regarding the OP, both, the movie and the game have mainly outer values over depth. The critics I trust give Avatar a good (not super awesome) rating, same with ME2. Both have a simple but well presented story, while Avatar also has a message, that again is simple but presented well while ME2 has good shooter gameplay. However, ME2 is a sequel and because it actually changed the games underlying design focus it has much more potential to be dissappointing than Avatar as the movie was the first in a franchise. But in movies whenever a director does a new movie it is almost interpretated as a sequel...
ME2 just gets so such great critics because most critics are either "influenced" by the beloved publisher or just as casual of a gamer as the target audience for ME2. And since the biggest flaws of ME2 can not be seen on a quick glimps, as the surface shines almost perfectly, its not a big surprise that high scores fly arround like crazy.