194 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xandurpein wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You speak as If Anora took on a mass murder policy. She just crushed a food riot. That's it. I can't see the casualties to surpass a couple of hundreds. And even that is stretching it .

To be fair Sylvanaerie has in my opinion been very reasonable and far from one sided. she simply has a different opinion and I respect that. While your remark may be true of many other Anora hating posters I don't think it was really fair if it was directed at her.

It wasn't directed at her. It was just a general statement.
Crushing a food riot is not really that big a deal in the Middle Ages.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 10 avril 2010 - 03:30 .

[sylvanaerie]

Thanks Xander Its been great debating with you too !

And to be honest the only way I could crush the food riot in Awakenings was to get violent (after reasonable negotiations failed).  So I can certainly understand what happened there.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 10 avril 2010 - 03:34 .

[nos_astra]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Crushing a food riot is not really that big a deal in the Middle Ages.

Of course, it isn't. It's tackling the only the symptoms of one problem while at the same time tackling the roots of another. But you do have a point, I never saw it that way.

But SurelyForth has a good point, too. Anora's epilogue seems to have more closure than Alistair's. Maybe he still has a role to play before something definite can be said? Or we're just over-analyzing again.

Modifié par klarabella, 10 avril 2010 - 03:51 .

[Xandurpein]

klarabella wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Crushing a food riot is not really that big a deal in the Middle Ages.

Of course, it isn't. It's tackling the only the symptoms of one problem while at the same time tackling the roots of another. But you do have a point, I never saw it that way.

But SurelyForth has a good point, too. Anora's epilogue seems to have more closure than Alistair's. Maybe he still has a role to play before something definite can be said? Or we're just over-analyzing again.

I caught the same tone, but I think that this is because real closure for Alistair is that he lays down his crown, in all likelyhood without an heir, and goes to wander the Deep Roads one last time before he becomes a ghoul. I think that would be just a tad too depressing for some, even if we know its the truth.

[sylvanaerie]

Xandurpein wrote...

klarabella wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Crushing a food riot is not really that big a deal in the Middle Ages.

Of course, it isn't. It's tackling the only the symptoms of one problem while at the same time tackling the roots of another. But you do have a point, I never saw it that way.

But SurelyForth has a good point, too. Anora's epilogue seems to have more closure than Alistair's. Maybe he still has a role to play before something definite can be said? Or we're just over-analyzing again.

I caught the same tone, but I think that this is because real closure for Alistair is that he lays down his crown, in all likelyhood without an heir, and goes to wander the Deep Roads one last time before he becomes a ghoul. I think that would be just a tad too depressing for some, even if we know its the truth.

Yea it would be and I think its the most probable outcome of the story.  Will really ****** me off if the next game is set say 100 years in the future and thats what happened.  To tell the truth though I am expecting it so maybe if its different I will get a nice surprise instead ?

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

One thing to remember is that Anora, barring illness, accident, or assassination, had far more potential for a longer rule than Alistair does. She is untainted. No calling, no unfisnished business with the world at large. So she has the potential to make a much bigger impact as a ruler. She is more out of touch with the people she rules, and is pretty single minded- her way or no way.



However, overall, I feel better leaving her as sole queen, and running off with Alistair, when I am guning for a romantic vs tragic ending. The elf thing doesn't bug me as much as other people, because I'm not as sympathetic towards the elves. Everything else, she does a pretty decent job.



It also helps balance out the fact that I usually execute Loghain in most my playthroughs. If nothing else, he can go to his grave knowing his daughter will live and rule on her own, and Ferelden is in capable hands. I figure it's the best result of killing him.

[Thalorin1919]

I think they both do make good rulers. Each with negative and positive aspects. But each epilogue could have a different timeframe. Anora could of had that university built in a couple years, while Alistair studied governance and had an elf appointed to his court within a few months.



Either way, I think we should wait and see either way to see what happens. But I still think that Alistair as a sole ruler (hardened) makes a better ruler then Anora. A King is there to serve the needs of his people, thats something Anora does not do. Yeah she builds a university, but food should come first for your people. That's something you cannot slam down with violence.



Plus her attitude isnt really the right one. With her always thinking that she is right. Alistair most likely listens to what others has to say, and will base his decisions off of there arguments or advice. It never really says in the epilogue that Anora proves to be popular with the people like Alistair does. I believe that is another important aspect in ruling. Winning the hearts of your people.



But either way, it sounds like Bioware could be setting up Ferelden for another civil war. Alistair will find a wife, but I just have a feeling he wont be able to produce a child due to the taint. And Anora wont even marry anyone. Just have to see what happens.

[Chuvvy]

Axekix wrote...

Alistair is a terrible person. Romance Leliana instead!

Hawt

[KnightofPhoenix]

Thalorin1919 wrote...
 A King is there to serve the needs of his people, thats something Anora does not do. Yeah she builds a university, but food should come first for your people. That's something you cannot slam down with violence.

Only the elves suffer food shortages. The vast majority doesn't. So she isn't bringing famine to her people.  

In addition, Anora is expanding trade relations = more income to the treasury = more prosperity = more food in the long run.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Thalorin1919 wrote...
 A King is there to serve the needs of his people, thats something Anora does not do. Yeah she builds a university, but food should come first for your people. That's something you cannot slam down with violence.

Only the elves suffer food shortages. The vast majority doesn't. So she isn't bringing famine to her people.  

In addition, Anora is expanding trade relations = more income to the treasury = more prosperity = more food in the long run.

Not to mention a university, which promotes education, research, and the birth of new science/thought/tech/ect. Universities spawn revolutions in thinking and doing things. Technological advancement brings a better standard of living for society. Including more food and more prestige/power on the world stage. Improvements to medicine and health/sanitation will also make things better in the long run.

So Anora's rule has the potential to make a better future in the long term, and move society forward.

[RPGmom28]

I like Alistair a great deal, and would romance him if he were a real guy. He definitely pulls on the heartstrings when he pouts. So I always romance Zevran now. It takes away the stress of the whole Alistair emotional angst situation.

[Dragonairess]

[/quote]

*Virtual Hugs*

Buck up Dragon.  That's what reloads are for

@Surelyforth

That certainly seems a reasonable supposition indeed. Thanks for allowing me to see a different aspect of the situation![/quote]

Heh!

I just  I reworked the situation in my favor, but how anticlimatic was it for me?  Very.  While there are moments of <3 I overall am disheartened by Alistair's, "Okay, I will, whatever," attitude.  I know he has other things to worry about, but with such a ferociouslicious Grey Warden fighting at his hip, shouldn't that free up a bit more romantic urgency?  Okay, I guess not. 

However, I was very swept away by his rousing speech to the troops, shouting my glory quite convincingly.  I'm guessing he would've done this anyway after kicking me to the curb for having a hostile womb, but that's okay.  I'll take it.

[Dragonairess]

RPGmom28 wrote...

I like Alistair a great deal, and would romance him if he were a real guy. He definitely pulls on the heartstrings when he pouts. So I always romance Zevran now. It takes away the stress of the whole Alistair emotional angst situation.

Zevran is next on my list. 

If Alistair were a real guy... I guess the prospect of being queen would be too tempting to resist.

[nos_astra]

Dragonairess wrote...
If Alistair were a real guy... I guess the prospect of being queen would be too tempting to resist.

I'd be scared to death because being Queen (or King) is NO FUN at all.
There's good you can do but every tiny little bit of yourself now belongs to the country. If you feel dutiful enough it even dictates who you have to bed.

[sylvanaerie]

[quote]Dragonairess wrote...


[/quote]

*Virtual Hugs*

Buck up Dragon.  That's what reloads are for

@Surelyforth

That certainly seems a reasonable supposition indeed. Thanks for allowing me to see a different aspect of the situation![/quote]

Heh!

I just  I reworked the situation in my favor, but how anticlimatic was it for me?  Very.  While there are moments of <3 I overall am disheartened by Alistair's, "Okay, I will, whatever," attitude.  I know he has other things to worry about, but with such a ferociouslicious Grey Warden fighting at his hip, shouldn't that free up a bit more romantic urgency?  Okay, I guess not. 

However, I was very swept away by his rousing speech to the troops, shouting my glory quite convincingly.  I'm guessing he would've done this anyway after kicking me to the curb for having a hostile womb, but that's okay.  I'll take it.

[/quote]

Well he DOES still love your PC even if the approval rating says "Friendly" instead of "Love" but he has to break it off because of duty.  How nice that we players get so many options to turn him from that whole duty thing (If we want). My favorite line in that post landsmeet conversation is when he apologizes for being such a stupid ass and you can tell him he is going to have to "earn" your forgiveness.

[Sarah1281]

If you feel dutiful enough it even dictates who you have to bed.

For those marrying Alistair for love, that's not really going to be a problem.

[Thalorin1919]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Thalorin1919 wrote...
 A King is there to serve the needs of his people, thats something Anora does not do. Yeah she builds a university, but food should come first for your people. That's something you cannot slam down with violence.

Only the elves suffer food shortages. The vast majority doesn't. So she isn't bringing famine to her people.  

In addition, Anora is expanding trade relations = more income to the treasury = more prosperity = more food in the long run.

Not to mention a university, which promotes education, research, and the birth of new science/thought/tech/ect. Universities spawn revolutions in thinking and doing things. Technological advancement brings a better standard of living for society. Including more food and more prestige/power on the world stage. Improvements to medicine and health/sanitation will also make things better in the long run.

So Anora's rule has the potential to make a better future in the long term, and move society forward.

Like people have said earlier, I think Anora's solo ruling epilogue had much more closure then Alistair's did. It seems the epilogue only shows the actions he has taken with a few months, while hers were over a long duration of time.

Also Anora had five years to really get used to the art of ruling, and figuring out how to rule the nation effectively. Alistair just now became King, so I'm guessing with his epilogue it shows that he is getting his court settled, figuring out how to rule the nation, and how to keep the nobles in check and solidfy his position as King. After he has all the basics settled, I could see him doing great things just as Anora did if not better, when it comes to building universties and increasing trade. Plus I honestly just see Alistair having a better foreign policy then Anora when hardened. He's a way more likeable person.

[Tinnic]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

One thing to remember is that Anora, barring illness, accident, or assassination, had far more potential for a longer rule than Alistair does. She is untainted. No calling, no unfisnished business with the world at large. So she has the potential to make a much bigger impact as a ruler. She is more out of touch with the people she rules, and is pretty single minded- her way or no way.

Anora the virgin Queen of Feralden! Well ok so she's most likely not a virgin given she was married but she does remind me a little of Elizabeth I. She did have a long reign, Elizabeth that is, but after awhile her long reign became a problem because policies that worked sixty years ago, when she assume the throne, stopped working as time wore on. So you know, a long reign does not automatically equal a good thing. What you have to really look at is, what do they achieve, no matter how long or short the reign. A king with an extremely short reign can still enact radical changes that fundamentally alter the face of the nation, while the another king with a long reign may achieve very little.

In addition, it is made pretty clear that Anora also does not have any heirs. So making her Queen doesn't secure the "king is dead, long live the king" philosophy that is a corner stone of heredity monarchy. If Alistair goes for his calling without an heir, Anora also goes to her death bed without an heir. But the Alistair question is left open, he might have married and had an heir. On the other hand, it is made clear that Anora with her daddy issues does not.

[SurelyForth]

sylvanaerie wrote...


Well he DOES still love your PC even if the approval rating says "Friendly" instead of "Love" but he has to break it off because of duty.  How nice that we players get so many options to turn him from that whole duty thing (If we want). My favorite line in that post landsmeet conversation is when he apologizes for being such a stupid ass and you can tell him he is going to have to "earn" your forgiveness.

That line and the line you get of you say you don't know if you can forgive him ("All right, then, just let me put my glum face on. I'll take my punishment like a man.") are both so very squee-worthy. Damn him and his ridiculously awesome voice. 

Modifié par SurelyForth, 10 avril 2010 - 06:01 .

[sylvanaerie]

I can see that point, Thalorin, Alistair does make an effort to learn and is open to suggestions on how to improve things and he knows how to get help from those who are more knowlegeable and adept at ruling or just leading other people. I see the potential for something really good to come from his rulership if it is just as Surelyforth suggests and that Anora's ending is more long term while his is shorter.

But as we don't really get hints of him doing any of that stuff I guess it remains to be seen which was a better solution

I still feel though the best solution for Ferelden in the long run is putting both Alistair and Anora as co-rulers on the throne. Even more so than the HN's getting involved. Both of them have qualities that will shine in the union and make them a one-two punch thats truly remarkable for their country.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 10 avril 2010 - 06:04 .

[LadyDamodred]

My HN is so much more awesome than Anora, though. Ferelden kicks ass with her and Alistair on the throne.

[sylvanaerie]

LadyDamodred wrote...

My HN is so much more awesome than Anora, though. Ferelden kicks ass with her and Alistair on the throne.

hehe.  I didn't say I LIKED doing it and I usually romance Al and stay his mistress or become queen but I do see that the ending slides for Alistair+Anora are better than either one solo or with Al married to the PC.  I can't speak for PC plus Anora.  I could never bring myself to hitch my Cousland boy to her.

[Tinnic]

O yes, one more think I wanted to add. You can learn governance and from ruling, you can learn how to rule better. Alistair has the capacity to learn and that is demonstrated in his epilogue. However, you cannot learn to be a good person and Anora is not a good person. She is manipulative, lying ****. She will do anything for power. Good things because they will make her more beloved to her people. Bad things, if she is threatened. She believes she was born to rule and rule she will. Call me whatever you want, but I believe that those who are best suited to power are those who do not want it. That alone is reason enough to put Alistair on the throne and send Anora to the tower. You don't reward power-hungry despots by giving them power.

Modifié par Tinnic, 10 avril 2010 - 06:11 .

[LadyDamodred]

sylvanaerie wrote...

LadyDamodred wrote...

My HN is so much more awesome than Anora, though. Ferelden kicks ass with her and Alistair on the throne.

hehe.  I didn't say I LIKED doing it and I usually romance Al and stay his mistress or become queen but I do see that the ending slides for Alistair+Anora are better than either one solo or with Al married to the PC.  I can't speak for PC plus Anora.  I could never bring myself to hitch my Cousland boy to her.

Ending slide doesn't give you nearly enough info about what happens Alistair + PC.  It couches everything in short-term generalities.  I understand why.  The game doesn't want to write your rp'ing for you, and thus it cannot say what will happen.  It's this ambiguity that allows me to definitively say Ferelden is awesome with the two of us. 

[Thalorin1919]

sylvanaerie wrote...

I can see that point, Thalorin, Alistair does make an effort to learn and is open to suggestions on how to improve things and he knows how to get help from those who are more knowlegeable and adept at ruling or just leading other people. I see the potential for something really good to come from his rulership if it is just as Surelyforth suggests and that Anora's ending is more long term while his is shorter.

But as we don't really get hints of him doing any of that stuff I guess it remains to be seen which was a better solution

I still feel though the best solution for Ferelden in the long run is putting both Alistair and Anora as co-rulers on the throne. Even more so than the HN's getting involved. Both of them have qualities that will shine in the union and make them a one-two punch thats truly remarkable for their country.

I agree. Even though a hardened Alistair and Anora both make very good rulers for Ferelden, I honestly cant bring myself to do it. I always play the good guy on most of my playthroughs, so me and Alistiar end up being very good friends. And from my point of view, his life has sucked. He has never been able to choose what he wants, and this has bothered him. So I always feel its important to harden him and so he wants the throne.

And with that, I dont marry him to Anora. Not only does he like her at all, but I think he should be able to pick the woman he wishes to marry in his life. And honestly, I'm just not a big fan of political marriages. I mean, if Alistair does a good job as King by himself, I dont see the problem with him marrying someone out of love such as the HFN or someone else. Its something that I believe he deserves after all the hardships he has been through.