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[sylvanaerie]

I have done it twice in 2 different play throughs. Once on my HNM and once on a CE. Mostly cause I had done a Dalish run through and saw what Anora alone does in the Alienage and didn't want to repeate that on my CE. I know it sucks for the boy but sometimes thats life. And the post coronation conversations with him and Anora left me feeling ...umm okay maybe something positive there...

*Edit* it was a bit of metagaming on my CE admittedly but on my HMN I just figured it was the most pragmatic solution to ensuring peace to not only end the civil war Loghain's actions started but to allow Anora's strengths to balance and temper Alistair's shortcomings and vice versa.  And it worked well (at least for Ferelden).  Had she allowed Cailan to help her rule I suspect things may not have reached the level of sucktastic that they did.  Alone she is capable at administration but she lacks the "human" element and willingness to learn that Alistair has.

99.9% of my playthroughs have placed Alistair with my PC as mistress/chancellor or wife to help him on the throne. And he has always been hardened. Alistair unhardened on the throne is the cruelest of all fates IMO.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 10 avril 2010 - 06:49 .

[Addai]

CalJones wrote...

I work in recruitment and often have to persuade a candidate that it would be a good idea to consider a job in somewhere like, say, Shanghai. My boss taught me that the majority of men will make decisions based on logic, whereas the majority of women will make decisions based on emotion. It's possible to reason with a man and change his mind, but once a woman's mind is made up, there is little you can do to change it. I initially dismissed this as some sort of sexist claptrap, but over the four years I've worked for the company, I've found it to be true,

So, Xandurpein, you can make your best logical argument, but you will do nothing to sway an Anora- and Loghain- hating Alistair fangirl. And if it's an Alistair fangirl with custom hair, you might as well beat your head against the wall until your brains will leak out through your ears.

Just sayin'.

Well, let's just be dismissive rather than actually discuss points?  I'm sorry, but I'm fed up with the idea that sparing Loghain and being an Anora fan are the "logical" things and taking the opposite point of view is an estrogen rush gone wrong.  I realize you are a woman, but regardless, this is insulting.  If you can't see the logic of another POV, then at least consider that you're hardened in your own opinions beyond any ability to reason you out of them- and not only that the other side is so.

Modifié par Addai67, 10 avril 2010 - 06:35 .

[Sarah1281]

And with that, I dont marry him to Anora. Not only does he like her at all, but I think he should be able to pick the woman he wishes to marry in his life.

If Alistair becomes King then he's not going to really get to choose who to marry. He can pick pretty much any noble girl but that's it and he won't really have the option of falling in love with any of them prior to having the marriage arranged because by that time they'll probably be promised to someone else.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Tinnic wrote...

In addition, it is made pretty clear that Anora also does not have any heirs. So making her Queen doesn't secure the "king is dead, long live the king" philosophy that is a corner stone of heredity monarchy. If Alistair goes for his calling without an heir, Anora also goes to her death bed without an heir. But the Alistair question is left open, he might have married and had an heir. On the other hand, it is made clear that Anora with her daddy issues does not.

Given that Alistair is a Warden, and Wardens have not only short lifespans, but low fertility rates, even with non-Wardens, according to Gaider, I think it is strongly implied that Alistair will leave no heirs. I think that because of the set up of the game, no matter which route you take, it is meant to forshadow that no matter who gets the throne, the future of the throne and inheritance is pretty uncertain, paving the way for possible problems down the line, and perhaps in future installments.

I personally think it's a good thing. Ferelden can't stagnate forever. Either a new royal line will have to take the throne, or herditary monarchy will end up going the way of the dinosaurs, which in my opinion, is actually not a bad thing.

Anora the "virgin" queen. I like it. In fact, I'm all for a total matriarchal Thedas! Celene ruling Orlais, Anora Ferelden, The Chantry Diving always a female, Antiva having a queen....yeah. I'm all for solo medieval chick power. Need all that estrogen fueled aggro to keep the quanari at bay. Screw Tevinter.

[Sarah1281]

Anora the "virgin" queen.

Well, it would explain the lack of heirs.

[Thalorin1919]

Sarah1281 wrote...

And with that, I dont marry him to Anora. Not only does he like her at all, but I think he should be able to pick the woman he wishes to marry in his life.

If Alistair becomes King then he's not going to really get to choose who to marry. He can pick pretty much any noble girl but that's it and he won't really have the option of falling in love with any of them prior to having the marriage arranged because by that time they'll probably be promised to someone else.

Even with that, I still think he would prefer that over marrying the daughter of the man who left his brother and his order to die in Ostagar.

[thegreateski]

Addai67 wrote...

thegreateski wrote...
I'm so confused . . . why does everyone always take what I say negatively?

It was a compliment . . .

Ok... you did say "great minds and all that" to a poster who was calling the people posting here a bunch of whiners.

I was just saying that this RPG's story is so emotionally gripping it may be mistaken for a different genre of games . . .

Modifié par thegreateski, 10 avril 2010 - 07:31 .

[Xandurpein]

Well, I guess i can sympathize with the poster who claimed that her HNF is so much better as Queen than Anora. I definitly feel that my Cousland makes a much better King than Alistair together with Anora. (No I make no claim to rival his cuteness, merely his ability to regin). Besides a nobleman has a duty to his family to make a good marriage to improve the familys fortune. Fergus definitly approves of a HNM marrying Anora and rightly so.

I have no doubt being married to Anora would be a trial at times, but I really think the right man can find happiness with her. Alistair is not that man to be sure. For those who think I am insane to think so. I just ask you to consider Morrigan. Morrigan is an awful person, until you get to know her and get under her shell. The game never let's you get under Anora's shell, but who's to say it can't be done. I may be an eternal optimist, but I think so. If nothing else she is smart and beautiful. It could be damn lot worse...

And I really felt I did Alistair a huge favor when I decided to propose that I married Anora myself instead of talking him into it.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 10 avril 2010 - 07:36 .

[sylvanaerie]

Xandurpein wrote...

Well, I guess i can sympathize with the poster who claimed that her HNF is so much better as Queen than Anora. I definitly feel that my Cousland makes a much better King than Alistair together with Anora. (No I make no claim to rival his cuteness, merely his ability to regin). Besides a nobleman has a duty to his family to make a good marriage to improve the familys fortune. Fergus definitly approves of a HNM marrying Anora and rightly so.

I have no doubt being married to Anora would be a trial at times, but I really think the right man can find happiness with her. Alistair is not that man to be sure. For those who think I am insane to think so. I just ask you to consider Morrigan. Morrigan is an awful person, until you get to know her and get under her shell. The game never let's you get under Anora's shell, but who's to say it can't be done. I may be an eternal optimist, but I think so. If nothing else she is smart and beautiful. It could be damn lot worse...

And I really felt I did Alistair a huge favor when I decided to propose that I married Anora myself instead of talking him into it.

Yea, I can see that.  Alistair as a GW is a lot happier away from the throne than on it, regardless of hardened or not.  My favorite playthrough was my Dalish who put Anora alone on the throne and rode off with her love to be Gray Wardens together.  The ending I like second best was the playthrough I did the US on my Cousland boy.

I just can't marry her.  Intellectually I can get around the idea its just a game but then I start getting immersed mid attempt and have to reload.  I just can't do it on my PC.  Would be curious how that ends though. 

And while she hates Alistair, I can actually see Anora softening up to a Cousland.  Just my impressions though.

[Xandurpein]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Yea, I can see that.  Alistair as a GW is a lot happier away from the throne than on it, regardless of hardened or not.  My favorite playthrough was my Dalish who put Anora alone on the throne and rode off with her love to be Gray Wardens together.  The ending I like second best was the playthrough I did the US on my Cousland boy.

I just can't marry her.  Intellectually I can get around the idea its just a game but then I start getting immersed mid attempt and have to reload.  I just can't do it on my PC.  Would be curious how that ends though. 

And while she hates Alistair, I can actually see Anora softening up to a Cousland.  Just my impressions though.

I think so too. While the fairy tale royal wedding looks nice on paper I doubt people realize what's involved. I think Alistair would rather spend half his day whisper cute things into the ear of his love than run the country if it was up to him, and that is simply not an option if he wants to be a good King.

I admit that it may be just a cliché, but there is something compelling in the 'Melting the Ice Queen' story. Bioware has had loads of successful romances along that line. Viconia, Bastila, Morrigan, Miranda Lawson etc. At some level it works, but maybe it's just a guy thing. I don't know.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 10 avril 2010 - 07:54 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Xandurpein wrote...

Well, I guess i can sympathize with the poster who claimed that her HNF is so much better as Queen than Anora. I definitly feel that my Cousland makes a much better King than Alistair together with Anora. (No I make no claim to rival his cuteness, merely his ability to regin). Besides a nobleman has a duty to his family to make a good marriage to improve the familys fortune. Fergus definitly approves of a HNM marrying Anora and rightly so.

I have no doubt being married to Anora would be a trial at times, but I really think the right man can find happiness with her. Alistair is not that man to be sure. For those who think I am insane to think so. I just ask you to consider Morrigan. Morrigan is an awful person, until you get to know her and get under her shell. The game never let's you get under Anora's shell, but who's to say it can't be done. I may be an eternal optimist, but I think so. If nothing else she is smart and beautiful. It could be damn lot worse...

And I really felt I did Alistair a huge favor when I decided to propose that I married Anora myself instead of talking him into it.

QFT.  Allistair is very much a lad who takes things at face value, and thus, if Anora was a cold **** to him initially, he'd take that as being who she was, and their domestic life would be anything but blissful and happy. He would take it personally, and not be a very happy man. For an actual intimate, romantic relationship with Anora, you need someone with the patience and resolve to wear away at her cold iron facade, and a thick enough skin to deal with any barbs or irritation on her part. That definitely wouldn't be Alistair, who is pretty much an open book with his feelings and opinions.

I also feel like I do Alistair a big favor when I keep him off the throne and give it to Anora. And frankly, it's all she has, and probably ever will. She has no family, is considered a commoner by most of the nobility, and really has to struggle to keep it. Alistair has the Wardens, and his best friend or love with him.

[Axekix]

Slidell505 wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Alistair is a terrible person. Romance Leliana instead!

Hawt

I know, right?

[Sarah1281]

I also feel like I do Alistair a big favor when I keep him off the throne and give it to Anora. And frankly, it's all she has, and probably ever will. She has no family, is considered a commoner by most of the nobility, and really has to struggle to keep it. Alistair has the Wardens, and his best friend or love with him.

If she swore an oath of fealty she'd probably get to keep Gwaren and if you spare Loghain Alistair doesn't have any of that.

[sylvanaerie]

hmmm maybe I will make a Cousland boy and play him. On one of my latest playthroughs I finally was able to do the kill Connor storyline and though it was like pulling teeth without novacaine for me I did it by just going through with it.



Maybe if I don't romance anyone I can manage it. Alistair as a romance is the only one I can't resist and if I am a boy that isn't an option. My last attempt had my Cousland romance Leliana and it was before I knew how to harden her. I just couldn't do that to sweet Leli. But if my boy is footloose and fancyfree...maybe...

[Sarah1281]

On my HNM playthrough I romanced Morrigan so not only was she okay with the political marriage but her running off forever was actually more convenient given that he was going to marry Anora.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 10 avril 2010 - 08:06 .

[SurelyForth]

Xandurpein wrote...

I think so too. While the fairy tale royal wedding looks nice on paper I doubt people realize what's involved. I think Alistair would rather spend half his day whisper cute things into the ear of his love than run the country if it was up to him, and that is simply not an option if he wants to be a good King.

I admit that it may be just a cliché, but there is something compelling in the 'Melting the Ice Queen' story. Bioware has had loads of successful romances along that line. Viconia, Bastila, Morrigan, Miranda Lawson etc. At some level it works, but maybe it's just a guy thing. I don't know.

I think hardened Alistair as king would take his kingly duties quite seriously (while making time to whisper cute things into the ear of his love, of course). One of the reasons he doesn't like to be the one calling the shots is he afraid of disappointing people. His innate desire to do right by others is, in my opinion, why unhardened Ali pretty much hands the country over to Eamon/Anora/Chancellor PC because he rightly trusts them to do better than he can. Hardened, he's still receptive to input but he also feels comfortable enough with his abilities to take on the responsibility and make decisions himself. 

[Xandurpein]

sylvanaerie wrote...

hmmm maybe I will make a Cousland boy and play him. On one of my latest playthroughs I finally was able to do the kill Connor storyline and though it was like pulling teeth without novacaine for me I did it by just going through with it.

Maybe if I don't romance anyone I can manage it. Alistair as a romance is the only one I can't resist and if I am a boy that isn't an option. My last attempt had my Cousland romance Leliana and it was before I knew how to harden her. I just couldn't do that to sweet Leli. But if my boy is footloose and fancyfree...maybe...

Or you can let him romance Morrigan. If the Cousland boy doesn't loose his head completely the writing should be on the wall, by the time you actually meet Anora.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I also feel like I do Alistair a big favor when I keep him off the throne and give it to Anora. And frankly, it's all she has, and probably ever will. She has no family, is considered a commoner by most of the nobility, and really has to struggle to keep it. Alistair has the Wardens, and his best friend or love with him.

If she swore an oath of fealty she'd probably get to keep Gwaren and if you spare Loghain Alistair doesn't have any of that.

Very true. Anora and Loghain are far more ruthless towards defeated enemies. If you lose the Landsmeet, Loghain wants your heads on pikes. If you spare Loghain, and don't have Alistair and Anora marry, then Anora wants his head on a pike. Best Alistair can hope for is life as a drunk.

But that's different scenarios than what I usually play with. Thus, making Anora sole queen, and making Loghain wormfood is the usual route I like to take. It feels the most right.

[sylvanaerie]

Sarah1281 wrote...

On my HNM playthrough I romanced Morrigan so not only was she okay with the political marriage but her running off forever was actually more convenient given that he was going to marry Anora.

I don't know if I can handle the pain of the Morrigan romance coupled with an Anora pairing.  I tried that the LAST time I tried a Cousland+Anora game and just deleted it mid run cause it was too painful to watch Morrigan begging my PC to end it.  

Though perversely till it got old I kept triggering the conversation to see how much or how little I could ****** her off.  I guess that was payback for all those FemWarden playthroughs where she smugly goes after Alistair's little Wardens for her demon baby.

[Xandurpein]

SurelyForth wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

I think so too. While the fairy tale royal wedding looks nice on paper I doubt people realize what's involved. I think Alistair would rather spend half his day whisper cute things into the ear of his love than run the country if it was up to him, and that is simply not an option if he wants to be a good King.

I admit that it may be just a cliché, but there is something compelling in the 'Melting the Ice Queen' story. Bioware has had loads of successful romances along that line. Viconia, Bastila, Morrigan, Miranda Lawson etc. At some level it works, but maybe it's just a guy thing. I don't know.

I think hardened Alistair as king would take his kingly duties quite seriously (while making time to whisper cute things into the ear of his love, of course). One of the reasons he doesn't like to be the one calling the shots is he afraid of disappointing people. His innate desire to do right by others is, in my opinion, why unhardened Ali pretty much hands the country over to Eamon/Anora/Chancellor PC because he rightly trusts them to do better than he can. Hardened, he's still receptive to input but he also feels comfortable enough with his abilities to take on the responsibility and make decisions himself. 

I'm not disputing that Alistair would take his duties seriously. I just don't think that this means it it what he really wants do. And he'll definitly have MUCH more time to be cute with his love if they are not King and Queen.