80 réponses à ce sujet

[Quels]

Nathan Willis wrote...

*snip*

For all those others expressing concern about development cycles and the like, patch support and development is a separate entity from DLC development. We coordinate on certain issues, of course, but separate teams -- and no, of course the patch will not be priced DLC! Sheesh.

That was of course only meant as joke and generally I'm just happy to see some communication with the community, makes it much easier to be patient.
With communication we at least know that our patience will be worthwhile, whereas without, patience is easily replaced by anger.

[Branji]

Quels: what communication? Nothing was said about progress on the patch; how far are they in the process; why is it taking so long; etc. His post said nothing actually useful.

[Nathan Willis]

Branji wrote...

... You say you can't tell us how many issues are fixed. Bull. GOOD programmers keep an up-to-date list of problems fixed. At any time anyone can see how much work has been done.

If you thought I was, to be clear... I am not a programmer myself. So insinuating I'm a bad programmer won't get you anywhere -- I AM a bad programmer, I couldn't program an okay dialog box pop-up without extensive googling. 

But seriously, flat out: I don't have authorization to reveal any information. If I did, I would. As I've said before to others, I realize you're upset and frustrated and I wish there was something more I could do to alleviate your particular worries and concerns, but my hands are tied. All I can do for the time being is collect information and tell you the only truth I can at the moment... which is... you guessed it, we're working on it. Good progress is being made. Any further info will likely not be revealed by me unless I get express permission (read: told) to do so.

DeadJediJamie wrote...

(1)...Nathan, gotta say man that this is a far cry from the collaborative
effort between the community and the last patch released for Neverwinter
Nights...
(2)...It's not within your power to give this information, we get it, but is
there someone who can at least give us a changelog... or something?

r.e. point 1: Yes. I wasn't with the company back in those days, but this has been brought to the table and we're making an effort to change the way things are done around here with regards to community interactiveness and effectiveness of bug reporting at the like. My personal understanding is that - among other things - some issues have arisen, as.. well, honestly, the sheer amount of venom expelled by some members of the community on the forums is a huge deterrent to many devs poking their heads out. I've been trying to be nice about it and see for yourself the number of posts in this thread alone (let alone other threads!) lambasting me for not giving out enough information. If a dev team member pokes his head out, it's going to be to collect more information -- NOT reveal more. There are very strict rules about what we can and cannot say, and I'm doing my best to tread that line carefully. I realize that the whole interaction thing is a bit of a chicken/egg problem, but that doesn't change the situation at hand.

They wouldn't be able to tell you anything more than I could. Who wants to deal with that? They're normal people just like you and me. In my case, at least I've been through the customer service racket in the past so I've got a thicker skin than most, but to many of these guys that's just not something they want to deal with. At all. So, we're working on better ideas for interaction and exchanging of ideas. Moving forward, we're hoping that some more of these ideas can be brought to the table so the situation is improved.



r.e. point 2: All I can say is keep your eyes peeled. Hopefully sometime soon. This, too, is a process we hope to improve going forward.


edit: for better formatting. oofah.

Modifié par Nathan Willis, 03 juin 2010 - 05:37 .

[Branji]

Nathan: I don't care if you are not a programmer. You can get the info from the developers. Tell EA they need to tell the fans actual info. The lack of info is stupid. And you still aren't saying why the DLC zip through the approvals so quickly but not a patch, and why fans can fix the game so quickly but Bioware can't.



You mentioned devs not poking their heads out. If they would actually give USEFUL info there wouldn't be a problem. But the "refusal" (my wording) of anyone to speak USEFULLY is more than frustrating. I don't care whose fault it is: Bioware's or EA. Somebody needs their get their rear ends here with USEFUL info, not the same old crap about "working on it", because every time I hear nothing but "working on it" I get angrier at Bioware/EA more. It shows no one (Bioware or EA) cares. Your words people care is, quite frankly, a lie when there is nothing to back it up.



The MMO Lineage (in areas outside Korea) left the game in droves because NCSoft has been saying for more than 2 years there is more content "soon". A lot of players don't believe the company. The company says the same old crap for years. Few believe them anymore and the game has few players.



As I said, I don't care whose fault it is: someone needs to get the info here NOW. EA sure as hell doesn't care, as long as fanboys keep buying the DLC, t-shirts, etc., there is no reason for things to change. The uselessness of Bioware/EA posts will continue. And I don't care about the feelings of Bioware/EA since there is nothing to show they care about the fans.

[DeadJediJamie]

Nathan Willis wrote...

DeadJediJamie wrote...

(1)...Nathan, gotta say man that this is a far cry from the collaborative
effort between the community and the last patch released for Neverwinter
Nights...
(2)...It's not within your power to give this information, we get it, but is
there someone who can at least give us a changelog... or something?

r.e. point 1: Yes. I wasn't with the company back in those days, but this has been brought to the table and we're making an effort to change the way things are done around here with regards to community interactiveness and effectiveness of bug reporting at the like. My personal understanding is that - among other things - some issues have arisen, as.. well, honestly, the sheer amount of venom expelled by some members of the community on the forums is a huge deterrent to many devs poking their heads out. I've been trying to be nice about it and see for yourself the number of posts in this thread alone (let alone other threads!) lambasting me for not giving out enough information. If a dev team member pokes his head out, it's going to be to collect more information -- NOT reveal more. There are very strict rules about what we can and cannot say, and I'm doing my best to tread that line carefully. I realize that the whole interaction thing is a bit of a chicken/egg problem, but that doesn't change the situation at hand.

They wouldn't be able to tell you anything more than I could. Who wants to deal with that? They're normal people just like you and me. In my case, at least I've been through the customer service racket in the past so I've got a thicker skin than most, but to many of these guys that's just not something they want to deal with. At all. So, we're working on better ideas for interaction and exchanging of ideas. Moving forward, we're hoping that some more of these ideas can be brought to the table so the situation is improved.



r.e. point 2: All I can say is keep your eyes peeled. Hopefully sometime soon. This, too, is a process we hope to improve going forward.


edit: for better formatting. oofah.

Okay fair enough, you took time to respond and I can't really fault your answers. I just hope progress is made to the same level things were two or three years ago where the community and the dev team collaborated to fix problems on a game that was old, then. The whole "soon" bit is too ambiguous and open ended for a game stopping bug like this.

What also irks me is how a crash of this magnitude slipped through testing. Some of the bugs can be waved off as being easy to miss, but crashing? What would be an improvement on this situation is if someone at the dev team would at least come up with some sort of statement stickied to the tech support forum and made it clear that there is a horrendous crashing bug caused by X,Y and Z and then follow up with "We're working on it". Let people know the gravity of the situation, and then people will likely understand that a bug like this takes time and will drop it.

All we have at present is Victor Watcher asking for our system specifications and that they're working on... something...

My beef really boils down to the silence and then a few vague statements from Bioware which barely acknowledges the problem or its severity which is then is further compounded on by the lack of information.  This is where all the vitriol comes from, and forgive us if we're shooting the messenger but your words bring small comfort to those of us who have a product that is barely playable.

Modifié par DeadJediJamie, 03 juin 2010 - 07:46 .

[Brockololly]

For what its worth, I think many would just like updates on how progress is going with a patch or something other than vague reassurances.
I recall when Empire Total War came out, the forums there were quite hostile as it had bugs a plenty and one thing the devs did then was just to have a blog / stickied thread where a dev would post a little snippet of what they were working on that day or week with respect to the patch. I have no idea if something like that is possible or not but to know that specific problems are being worked on and are known about by the devs would placate at least some people, I think.

Modifié par Brockololly, 03 juin 2010 - 09:28 .

[adrichardson]

I'd like to echo Brockololly's sentiments - it would be nice to have some means of keeping the community updated. When people hear nothing for months on end, but see a steady flow of DLC, they assume the worst (even I'm guilty of the odd rant). I remember a post a while back about only seeing a dev on the boards when they're selling something. I know the boards bear an uncanny resemblance to a restless lynch mob, but I think a big contributing factor to the atmosphere is the lack of dev presence and lack of updates.

It would also be helpful to have a known issues sticky, if only to cut down on the number of "OMG stealing's teh borken" threads...

Modifié par adrichardson, 03 juin 2010 - 08:52 .

[Nathan Willis]

Branji wrote...

...And you still aren't saying why the DLC zip through the approvals so
quickly but not a patch...

You're asking for answers here that I can't give you. This isn't an issue of me not wanting to, it's that I really can't. I've already told you: I'm a low-man on the totem pole here. Whether or not information is available to me, these decisions are not ones that I make nor have any significant say in. I'm not going to indulge this line of questioning any further.

You're slingling accusations and I've taken the time to try and answer them reasonably, so... you have the answers I can give you. The bottom line for me is that I've told you that we care about fixing these issues and we're trying to do something about it, you say that's a lie and until you see proof we aren't. I'm not beholden to proving it to you, so believe me or don't as you will. When there's info to be shared, it'll be there.

Brockololly wrote...

For what its worth, I think many would just like updates on how progress
is going with a patch or something other than vague reassurances.
..have a blog / stickied thread where a dev would post a little snippet of
what they were working on that day or week...

adrichardson wrote...

...it would be nice to have some means of keeping the community updated. When people hear nothing for months on end, but see a steady flow of DLC, they assume the worst...
...It would also be helpful to have a known issues sticky, if only to cut down on the number of "OMG stealing's teh borken" threads...

Great suggestion, Brockololly. I'll forward that along next meeting, it's definitely worth consideration.

R.e. what DeadJediJamie wrote and the rest of the posts, yep, these are things we want to fix and things that have been brought to the table. It's personally frustrating on my end to be unable to discuss these
issues candidly, but there's a considerable amount of red-tape that comes
between what I can and can't say on the forums. So... we're looking at solutions for implementing a better (and much less confusing) system for not only perusing (and acknowledging) known issues, but also receiving bug reports, system specs, repro steps, etc. that also will cut down on the repeated threads. All of this is "moving forward" from here.

[Wicked 702]

Just poking my head in to say that I'm very impressed with the constructive comments being made. Glad to see that the PC players are feeling the same sting as us console dregs (kidding of course, we're not dregs).

However, I have to echo Branji's statements. We're just tired. We're fed up. We're done. While there may or may not be impropriety going on by constantly releasing more paid content and NO patches, you should really know by now that the APPEARANCE of impropriety is already too much. All of this could have been alleviated with better communication in the ways others have described here but even that should have already been known.

Give us something. Just a taste. Don't keep starving the tiger or you're going to get bitten. Period.

[Thatdude88]

You've been pretty good at speaking up and at least saying something even if it doesn't amount to much Nathan and I understand you can't say much even if you wanted to. (so thanks for doing what you can)



But I do have some questions that shouldnt be out side of your ability to answer can we expect to see a patch in the next 30 days or even by august ? I ask because I do get tired of looking every day hoping for a patch and wasting a good amount of my time trying to find fixes and answers when there is nothing. tell me to come back next month if its not looking to be the near future.



Secondly you mentioned earlier that it wouldn't help if you told us all the things that have to go through before a patch gets put up but I think your wrong if you told us what processes had to be gone through before a patch got put up which really shouldn't be secret your silenced from revealing, and it will give us a good idea of whats going on and not make us feel like yah arnt doing anything. Also if you could tell us what step your on?

[Branji]

Nathan: Your post: blah blah blah. Same old thing. If you can't answer then read this carefully:



GET SOMEONE HERE WHO CAN

[Cloud Windfoot Omega]

Branji wrote...

Nathan: Your post: blah blah blah. Same old thing. If you can't answer then read this carefully:

GET SOMEONE HERE WHO CAN

and you wrote "whaah"

[Branji]

It's simple, Cloud. If Nathan can't answer our reasonable questions, then he is wasting our time, and he needs to get someone here to give fans actual useful info. Otherwise; the continuing lack of info is an insult to the fans.

[igniss]

Brockololly wrote...

For what its worth, I think many would just like updates on how progress is going with a patch or something other than vague reassurances.
I recall when Empire Total War came out, the forums there were quite hostile as it had bugs a plenty and one thing the devs did then was just to have a blog / stickied thread where a dev would post a little snippet of what they were working on that day or week with respect to the patch. I have no idea if something like that is possible or not but to know that specific problems are being worked on and are known about by the devs would placate at least some people, I think.

QFT

[mehdij23]

I cant speak on behalf of everyone, but I personally hate the idea that the developer hits deadlines for major game releases, DLC's.....talks estimates, and that mentally doesnt get carried over for patches. Especially when they are overpriced Expansions! Overpriced because I can't continue to play it (bugs, lots of em)

The community is asking for an estimated timeframe for a patch, which I would think is not really a big announcment. Please dont keep the surprise till E3

Let me keep it real....The least that can be done, is to announce an estimate for the patch. Nathan you will become an overnight hero



I appreciate the work you are all doing, and hope to hear something real soon.

Keep searching for those bugs, cuz there are lots of them waiting to be found lol

[Zepplin_Rules]

Nathan Willis wrote...


You're slingling accusations and I've taken the time to try and answer them reasonably, so... you have the answers I can give you. The bottom line for me is that I've told you that we care about fixing these issues and we're trying to do something about it, you say that's a lie and until you see proof we aren't. I'm not beholden to proving it to you, so believe me or don't as you will. When there's info to be shared, it'll be there.

I spent over 100 dollars on what is now a pile of plastic with pictures of dragons, you are beholden. Fix your product or give the money back to those who got ripped of by your product. Bioware released a faulty product and from what is seems, knowingly and without warning. Bioware ****ed us and now the burden is on us. Real **** nice.

[Desasosiego]

Nathan Willis wrote...
the sheer amount of venom expelled by some members of the community on the forums is a huge deterrent to many devs poking their heads out.

It's not like we can hurt them over TCP/IP (I need to put some resources into this actually, would sell nicely), so they should feel safeish. Last time I checked, words coudln't cause any pain at all, unless you are willing to take the pain, but that's your choice.

That being said, let's remind how things are:

a) We bought a game.

We can't play it.

c) We don't know if we ever will.

Showing up is definitely going to do less bad than good. And maybe some people will get some hopes or something -I for one have given up on Bioware so that won't be me-, maybe even some people will get to play their game. Who knows?

And I really really would love to know what they have to say.

[Loghaire]

I can't play this game because awc.dll error and when i try any ''fix'' game slows down so much it's unplayable (at least in combat).

[Branji]

Nathan Willis wrote...

the sheer amount of venom expelled by some members of the community on the forums is a huge deterrent to many devs poking their heads out.



Guess what, Nathan. The devs, even when the fans were nice, wouldn't really show up anyway.



Get someone here who will actually give useful info.

[DeadJediJamie]

Branji wrote...

Nathan Willis wrote...
the sheer amount of venom expelled by some members of the community on the forums is a huge deterrent to many devs poking their heads out.

Guess what, Nathan. The devs, even when the fans were nice, wouldn't really show up anyway.

Get someone here who will actually give useful info.

I agree, a problem such as this should have had an immediate fix or official work around. I shouldn't have to disable cores and do all this jiggery pokery to run this game. I realise patches take time, but Bioware, you only started what can laughably called "information gathering" last month! 

I think we're entitled at this point to have a clear picture of what's going on. Get someone in here who can say a bit more than vague assurances. Why on earth are these things kept secret any way? If we had some scope of what you were dealing with, a bit more clarity and understanding might be born from it.

[maslove23]

maybe I'm luck but so far i don't have any really bad bugs, however I only want to know the imported Weapons and Armor from origins to awaking some of them are gone from the bag. If a patch is coming out and i'm hoping it does for that I'm seen that alot of people need it, will that problem of Weapons and Armor be fixed?



the game is great please just make perfect

[DeadJediJamie]

maslove23 wrote...

maybe I'm luck but so far i don't have any really bad bugs, however I only want to know the imported Weapons and Armor from origins to awaking some of them are gone from the bag. If a patch is coming out and i'm hoping it does for that I'm seen that alot of people need it, will that problem of Weapons and Armor be fixed?

the game is great please just make perfect

I can't see that happening since they've said that the DLC was designed for Origins not Awakening - the only exception is Return to Ostagar stuff. Besides if you're on PC just download the mod which allows DLC to be imported into Awakenings. Works fine by and large.

[maslove23]

DeadJediJamie wrote...

maslove23 wrote...

maybe I'm luck but so far i don't have any really bad bugs, however I only want to know the imported Weapons and Armor from origins to awaking some of them are gone from the bag. If a patch is coming out and i'm hoping it does for that I'm seen that alot of people need it, will that problem of Weapons and Armor be fixed?

the game is great please just make perfect

I can't see that happening since they've said that the DLC was designed for Origins not Awakening - the only exception is Return to Ostagar stuff. Besides if you're on PC just download the mod which allows DLC to be imported into Awakenings. Works fine by and large.

I'm on the PC please can you tell me from where I can download the "mod" and really thank you for the help

[rewind678]

I'd just like to say Nath, keep up the good work. Don't let the naysayers get you down. Gotta sympathise with some of the venom spitters though, it does look a bit dodgy when a steady stream of DLC flows out and little is said on a new patch. But like Valve say,you can spend all day answering questions or the team can spend all day fixing the issues.