108 réponses à ce sujet

[Infinyte]

JKoopman wrote...

FrostGun wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

And I'm not saying that BioWare can't charge for DLC to recoup losses from second-hand sales. I'm saying that BioWare should charge a fair price for the content they release. If BioWare is going to release a 1200 MS point purchasing incentive then they better damn well make 1200 MS points of incentive content to go with it. At best, the content they've released is worth a fraction of that.

Betheda could do the exact same thing as BioWare with their expansions (release them free or even discounted to retail owners and charge full price for all others) and I wouldn't complain. Why? Because the content is worth the price. 800 MS points for The Pitt or Broken Steel is fair and I wouldn't feel cheated for paying it. An incentive should be just that; worthwhile content that you feel priviledged to have, not worthless garbage content that you couldn't care less about but "oh well, at least it's free".

You're advocating for developers to overcharge for garbage content just to bilk money from consumers, and no that IS NOT something that you as a gamer should be advocating.

And who are you to judge a 'fair price'? you have no idea the effort it took to make this DLC possible. all you know is how much is in your wallet.

I know a fair price when I see it because I've been paying for DLC for years and I know what's out there. When a single 800 MS point expansion from Bethesda has more content than all of the 1200 MS point incentive content provided by the Cerberus Network combined with plenty to spare, that's not a fair price.

How can you even dare to compare Bethesda's DLC policy to Bioware's after what they did with Fallout 3?

And I still get the feeling that you don't understand that you get the CN for FREE when you buy the game new.  You just have to enter a key code on the Social site. (The one you're on right now.)

[Reinholder]

JKoopman wrote...

Reinholder wrote...

JKoopman wrote...
I don't think you do, as my ability to go outside and enjoy life has absolutely no bearing on the current or potential future value of the Cerberus Network.

Now if you don't wish to participate in the discussion, kindly stay out of it.

I have a degree in English, on top of being a Briton. Your turn.

Congratulations. Now kindly explain how it relates to the discussion at hand.

*sigh* ok. If you insist.

The purpose of entertainment in the modern day is a tool with which to pass the time for maybe an hour or two at a time, as a kind of stop gap if you will, to other points in your life. It is encouraged and recommended by companies such as Microsoft, EA, Bioware, Sony, Nintendo et. al that you continue to pursue social interaction throughout your life, as spending your life in front of a screen waiting for downloadable content to become available is not, to say the least, optimal or recommended.

Furthermore, it's worth pointing out that the average person with a modicum appreciation for social interaction, and a firm understanding of the outside world gains more enjoyment from a game when it is a part of said regimen, instead of posting on internet boards, incessantly whining about downloadable content that, in all fairness, the programmers worked fairly hard to complete and deserve some form of financial recompense. This compensation has a dual incentive; 1.) To justify the ongoing production value costs, artistry and investment on the part of Bioware and EA to provide the entertainment that you claim to enjoy, yet begrudge paying any modicum of monetary value for 2.) Putting food on the table of the people who put quite literally hundreds of man hours into the sole purpose of entertaining you.

In short, if you could simply sit back and enjoy the production and work that's gone into ME2 thus far, appreciate the kind of complexity involved in 3D rendering, story development and animation, then maybe, just maybe your life would be fuller and richer by the anticipation of what the fine gentlemen in their offices are going to come up with next, instead of complaining that it 1.) isn't happening long enough or 2.) In the cases of some people, that it costs too much. Who knows? While you're anticipating the next batch of DLC, you could find the time to reconnect with humanity and appreciate life away from the console system, which would further enrich your gameplaying experience, as it's time spare that you want to play, instead of jamming a long running RPG into a couple of games and completely losing any appreciation for the nuances and artistry in the game.

You know. Just a thought.

[JKoopman]

Infinyte wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

FrostGun wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

And I'm not saying that BioWare can't charge for DLC to recoup losses from second-hand sales. I'm saying that BioWare should charge a fair price for the content they release. If BioWare is going to release a 1200 MS point purchasing incentive then they better damn well make 1200 MS points of incentive content to go with it. At best, the content they've released is worth a fraction of that.

Betheda could do the exact same thing as BioWare with their expansions (release them free or even discounted to retail owners and charge full price for all others) and I wouldn't complain. Why? Because the content is worth the price. 800 MS points for The Pitt or Broken Steel is fair and I wouldn't feel cheated for paying it. An incentive should be just that; worthwhile content that you feel priviledged to have, not worthless garbage content that you couldn't care less about but "oh well, at least it's free".

You're advocating for developers to overcharge for garbage content just to bilk money from consumers, and no that IS NOT something that you as a gamer should be advocating.

And who are you to judge a 'fair price'? you have no idea the effort it took to make this DLC possible. all you know is how much is in your wallet.

I know a fair price when I see it because I've been paying for DLC for years and I know what's out there. When a single 800 MS point expansion from Bethesda has more content than all of the 1200 MS point incentive content provided by the Cerberus Network combined with plenty to spare, that's not a fair price.

How can you even dare to compare Bethesda's DLC policy to Bioware's after what they did with Fallout 3?

And I still get the feeling that you don't understand that you get the CN for FREE when you buy the game new.  You just have to enter a key code on the Social site. (The one you're on right now.)

And you don't get it for free if you don't buy the game new. The fact that you get a 1200 MS point DLC bundled with a new purchase of ME2 doesn't change the fact that it's got a 1200 MS point value associated with it. The fact of the matter is, people who paid the 1200 MS points deserve 1200 MS points worth of content. They shouldn't be forced to subsidize BioWare's income by paying a premium price for worthless "free" content.

Modifié par JKoopman, 09 avril 2010 - 07:28 .

[Reinholder]

ok. BUT. And here's the crucial point. All copies of ME2 come WITH Cerberus access. So...you're kind of demanding something for nothing.

[JKoopman]

Reinholder wrote...

ok. BUT. And here's the crucial point. All copies of ME2 come WITH Cerberus access. So...you're kind of demanding something for nothing.

No, actually I'm demanding the exact opposite. I'm demanding something for something (my 1200 MS points). It's BioWare that seems to be expecting money for what amounts to nothing.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Someone answer me: I mistakenly paid 1200 pts for the Cerberus Network and bought it before receiving my CE. This means the card that came with my CE is now useless, right? In other words, I wasted 1200 pts, right?



Well, that must be it, I guess. Ugh, unhealthy excitement is unhealthy...

[Reinholder]

JKoopman wrote...

Reinholder wrote...

ok. BUT. And here's the crucial point. All copies of ME2 come WITH Cerberus access. So...you're kind of demanding something for nothing.

No, actually I'm demanding the exact opposite. I'm demanding something for something (my 1200 MS points). It's BioWare that seems to be expecting money for what amounts to nothing.

Are you being obtuse on purpose? Because you're kind of 2 for 2 at the moment. Did you physically pay 1200 microsoft points for cerberus?

[FrostGun]

JKoopman wrote...

And you don't get it for free if you don't buy the game new. The fact that you get a 1200 MS point DLC bundled with a new purchase of ME2 doesn't change the fact that it's got a 1200 MS point value associated with it. The fact of the matter is, people who paid the 1200 MS points deserve 1200 MS points worth of content. They shouldn't be forced to subsidize BioWare's income by paying a premium price for worthless "free" content.

But I'm done. I've said my piece. If you all want to act like children, I have better things to do.

What bioware did there is just trying to cut into the second hand market..

In theory Second hand retailers will need to drop the price by more than 15$ so that the game you purchased second hand +CN network at 15$ will cost less than a new game. If it doesnt then well people will just buy the game brand new.

Technically, no one will ever pay more than a brand new game.... Soooo...
In reality, second hand sales  will probably still save money..

Again you said above that people are being forced to buy this? (highlighted above)
No actually they are not. You get a complete game without CN..

The DLC add to the experience but no one is forcing you to get it. If you think the free downloads are ****, then by all means dont buy it.

[FrostGun]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

Someone answer me: I mistakenly paid 1200 pts for the Cerberus Network and bought it before receiving my CE. This means the card that came with my CE is now useless, right? In other words, I wasted 1200 pts, right?

Well, that must be it, I guess. Ugh, unhealthy excitement is unhealthy...

Unfortunately Yes.

If you still have a workin code. You may try and sell it.

[Reinholder]

FrostGun wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

And you don't get it for free if you don't buy the game new. The fact that you get a 1200 MS point DLC bundled with a new purchase of ME2 doesn't change the fact that it's got a 1200 MS point value associated with it. The fact of the matter is, people who paid the 1200 MS points deserve 1200 MS points worth of content. They shouldn't be forced to subsidize BioWare's income by paying a premium price for worthless "free" content.

But I'm done. I've said my piece. If you all want to act like children, I have better things to do.

What bioware did there is just trying to cut into the second hand market..

In theory Second hand retailers will need to drop the price by more than 15$ so that the game you purchased second hand +CN network at 15$ will cost less than a new game. If it doesnt then well people will just buy the game brand new.

Technically, no one will ever pay more than a brand new game.... Soooo...
In reality, second hand sales  will probably still save money..

Again you said above that people are being forced to buy this? (highlighted above)
No actually they are not. You get a complete game without CN..

The DLC add to the experience but no one is forcing you to get it. If you think the free downloads are ****, then by all means dont buy it.

*sniff* will you hold me and stroke my hair while I slumber?

[FrostGun]

Reinholder wrote...

FrostGun wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

And you don't get it for free if you don't buy the game new. The fact that you get a 1200 MS point DLC bundled with a new purchase of ME2 doesn't change the fact that it's got a 1200 MS point value associated with it. The fact of the matter is, people who paid the 1200 MS points deserve 1200 MS points worth of content. They shouldn't be forced to subsidize BioWare's income by paying a premium price for worthless "free" content.

But I'm done. I've said my piece. If you all want to act like children, I have better things to do.

What bioware did there is just trying to cut into the second hand market..

In theory Second hand retailers will need to drop the price by more than 15$ so that the game you purchased second hand +CN network at 15$ will cost less than a new game. If it doesnt then well people will just buy the game brand new.

Technically, no one will ever pay more than a brand new game.... Soooo...
In reality, second hand sales  will probably still save money..

Again you said above that people are being forced to buy this? (highlighted above)
No actually they are not. You get a complete game without CN..

The DLC add to the experience but no one is forcing you to get it. If you think the free downloads are ****, then by all means dont buy it.

*sniff* will you hold me and stroke my hair while I slumber?

There there.

Modifié par FrostGun, 09 avril 2010 - 07:25 .

[Reinholder]

That was just...beautiful.

[Kusy]

Cerberus network is basicaly a free feature for all players who actualy spent money on the game before or soon after ther game was released. The reason why it's avalible for purchase is the fact that the ammount of Cerberus Network Acces Cards was limited, I'm not sure if those already runned out but eventualy they will - and that means they won't be adding them for free.

What Cerberus Netowork grants you is the acces to SOME downloadable features. It was announced as that, nobody ever sayed that it will be any other way around. Actualy anyone who payed attention or watched all the interviews with BioWare crew would know that not every DLC will be avalible for Cerberus Network before the game was even released.

How can you explain that some people know about this, and some don't? Word "ignorance" comes to mind... and it's a bad thing when ignorant people argue about what they should get from others.

This is my opinion on the subject, if there's any simplier way of describing what CN is and should do - please do so.

[JKoopman]

Reinholder wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Reinholder wrote...

JKoopman wrote...
I don't think you do, as my ability to go outside and enjoy life has absolutely no bearing on the current or potential future value of the Cerberus Network.

Now if you don't wish to participate in the discussion, kindly stay out of it.

I have a degree in English, on top of being a Briton. Your turn.

Congratulations. Now kindly explain how it relates to the discussion at hand.

*sigh* ok. If you insist.

The purpose of entertainment in the modern day is a tool with which to pass the time for maybe an hour or two at a time, as a kind of stop gap if you will, to other points in your life. It is encouraged and recommended by companies such as Microsoft, EA, Bioware, Sony, Nintendo et. al that you continue to pursue social interaction throughout your life, as spending your life in front of a screen waiting for downloadable content to become available is not, to say the least, optimal or recommended.

Furthermore, it's worth pointing out that the average person with a modicum appreciation for social interaction, and a firm understanding of the outside world gains more enjoyment from a game when it is a part of said regimen, instead of posting on internet boards, incessantly whining about downloadable content that, in all fairness, the programmers worked fairly hard to complete and deserve some form of financial recompense. This compensation has a dual incentive; 1.) To justify the ongoing production value costs, artistry and investment on the part of Bioware and EA to provide the entertainment that you claim to enjoy, yet begrudge paying any modicum of monetary value for 2.) Putting food on the table of the people who put quite literally hundreds of man hours into the sole purpose of entertaining you.

In short, if you could simply sit back and enjoy the production and work that's gone into ME2 thus far, appreciate the kind of complexity involved in 3D rendering, story development and animation, then maybe, just maybe your life would be fuller and richer by the anticipation of what the fine gentlemen in their offices are going to come up with next, instead of complaining that it 1.) isn't happening long enough or 2.) In the cases of some people, that it costs too much. Who knows? While you're anticipating the next batch of DLC, you could find the time to reconnect with humanity and appreciate life away from the console system, which would further enrich your gameplaying experience, as it's time spare that you want to play, instead of jamming a long running RPG into a couple of games and completely losing any appreciation for the nuances and artistry in the game.

You know. Just a thought.

Yes, that's all well and good. But again, how does it relate to my statement that the vague promise of potential worthwhile DLC down the road does nothing to inflate the value of the Cerberus Netork now especially in light of BioWare's track record for releasing promised DLC or to the fact that you smartly criticise me for complaining about lack of worthwhile DLC on a forum while you yourself hypocritically complain about me complaining about lack of worthwhile DLC on a forum? What's true for the goose is true for the gander. Rather than sitting here complaining about people complaining, why don't you go outside and enjoy your obviously full and rich life?

I'm sorry but a smarmy attitude and a lot of big words don't substitute for a relevant point.

Modifié par JKoopman, 09 avril 2010 - 07:33 .

[Reinholder]

Because they delivered. Time frame is irrelevant.

[JKoopman]

Reinholder wrote...

Because they delivered. Time frame is irrelevant.

That they could deliver at some point in the future does not mean that they have delivered. Once I have 1200 MS points worth of content sitting on my drive, I'll stop complaining about the Cerberus Network not being worth 1200 MS points. This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

But I'm done. I've said my piece. If you all want to act like children, I have better things to do.

Modifié par JKoopman, 09 avril 2010 - 07:34 .

[xMakaze]

Okay lets make this short and sweet, if you brought the game new and you got it for free you have no right to complain.
Lets make another thing clear, if you want to complain about the cerberus network being 1200 which comes with free dlc. When something like a preorder bonus, that sell for $20+ sometimes on ebay is usually just a bonus item, Thus if you want to go and complain, complain about pre-order bonuses too.
Your arguments are totally twisted and unclear, you dont have a clue what you're on about yet you still have the time to write a paragraph that you feel is right.
Bioware are going to release alot more DLC for free on the cerberus network. If you want to complain, complain when they've released everything. For now go back to your little dark corner and think up more pointless arguments.

Modifié par xMakaze, 09 avril 2010 - 07:36 .

[Reinholder]

JKoopman wrote...

Reinholder wrote...

Because they delivered. Time frame is irrelevant.

That they could deliver at some point in the future does not mean that they have delivered. Once I have 1200 MS points worth of content sitting on my drive, I'll stop complaining about the Cerberus Network not being worth 1200 MS points. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

But I'm done. I've said my piece. If you all want to act like children, I have better things to do.

You're ****ing about something you got for free, and we're the children? I'll let you into a consumer secret. Product development is voted on by your wallet.

[FrostGun]

Please read my post a little further up.



Essentially you wouldn't be paying more than standard new game price to get access to CN.. So all is well in the world..

[Kusy]

This thread:

[Reinholder]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

This thread:

lol...Oh god, we're a bunch of bastards combined.

[JKoopman]

Reinholder wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Reinholder wrote...

Because they delivered. Time frame is irrelevant.

That they could deliver at some point in the future does not mean that they have delivered. Once I have 1200 MS points worth of content sitting on my drive, I'll stop complaining about the Cerberus Network not being worth 1200 MS points. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

But I'm done. I've said my piece. If you all want to act like children, I have better things to do.

You're ****ing about something you got for free, and we're the children? I'll let you into a consumer secret. Product development is voted on by your wallet.

It's nice that you can apparently look into my financial records to see what I have and have not paid for. You don't know anything about me, so kindly refrain from acting like you do.

Whatever. I'm going to work. Peace.

[FrostGun]

JKoopman wrote...

Reinholder wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Reinholder wrote...

Because they delivered. Time frame is irrelevant.

That they could deliver at some point in the future does not mean that they have delivered. Once I have 1200 MS points worth of content sitting on my drive, I'll stop complaining about the Cerberus Network not being worth 1200 MS points. It's not a hard concept to grasp.

But I'm done. I've said my piece. If you all want to act like children, I have better things to do.

You're ****ing about something you got for free, and we're the children? I'll let you into a consumer secret. Product development is voted on by your wallet.

It's nice that you can apparently look into my financial records to see what I have and have not paid for. You don't know anything about me, so kindly refrain from acting like you do.

Whatever. I'm going to work. Peace.

Seriously though i think what to take from all this, is that just be a little more carefull when you spend your $. research the service you are purchasing to see if its worth it to 'you'..

Lesson learnt and leave it at that.

Modifié par FrostGun, 09 avril 2010 - 07:41 .