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Reason that Mass Effect 2 squadmatess will NOT be in ME3


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#101
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Qwepir wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Hah Casey Hudson. The day I believe what he says is the day I'll resurrect Abe Lincoln using just a toothbrush and a gallon of rubbing alcohol.

The statement makes some sense though.  They gave the players the ability to kill everyone off in ME2.  The question is, who is going to be dead and is going to be alive in the default in the ME3 game IMO.  If you go buy ME3 off of the shelf without ever playing ME1 or 2, who is dead in the default?  I am assuming that whoever is dead in the default will not have any type of major role such as a squadmate for example, if you saved them in ME2 and imported them into ME3.  I am also assuming that you can go buy ME3 off of the shelf without ever playing ME1 and ME2 and still win the game. 

Squadmates are not major roles. They very rarely advance the plot. Tali and Liara were really the only plot-advancing squadmates in ME1, and Miranda and Jacob were the only ones in ME2, not counting loyalty missions as plot.

Right, well when I say major role, I guess I mean that the role has a real impact on your game mission and not just the story itself.  In other words it effects your ability to win the game so to speak. 

Edit:  Take Wrex and the Council for example.  It doesn't matter if they are dead or alive in ME2 except for the story.  It has no impact on the mission.

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 10 avril 2010 - 06:33 .


#102
Hulluliini

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The devs have said that they can go wild with ME3 so that every player can have a very different playthrough because there are no more sequels to worry about. I guess they just have to cover a lot of corners..

#103
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They certainly got a lot more flexibility this time around than the previous two I would think.

#104
kraidy1117

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JohnnyDollar wrote...

Qwepir wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Hah Casey Hudson. The day I believe what he says is the day I'll resurrect Abe Lincoln using just a toothbrush and a gallon of rubbing alcohol.

The statement makes some sense though.  They gave the players the ability to kill everyone off in ME2.  The question is, who is going to be dead and is going to be alive in the default in the ME3 game IMO.  If you go buy ME3 off of the shelf without ever playing ME1 or 2, who is dead in the default?  I am assuming that whoever is dead in the default will not have any type of major role such as a squadmate for example, if you saved them in ME2 and imported them into ME3.  I am also assuming that you can go buy ME3 off of the shelf without ever playing ME1 and ME2 and still win the game. 

Squadmates are not major roles. They very rarely advance the plot. Tali and Liara were really the only plot-advancing squadmates in ME1, and Miranda and Mordin were the only ones in ME2, not counting loyalty missions as plot.

Right, well when I say major role, I guess I mean that the role has a real impact on your game mission and not just the story itself.  In other words it effects your ability to win the game so to speak. 

Edit:  Take Wrex and the Council for example.  It doesn't matter if they are dead or alive in ME2 except for the story.  It has no impact on the mission.


Fixed it for you.

#105
Collider

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:whistle:

I have seen a few threads where people have claimed that it is unlikely
or nearly impossible to account for all of the variations possible with
the suicide mission in Mass Effect 2, that it would be a logistical
nightmare.

Not only is it not impossible, it's not such a daunting task as some people would make it.
Basically, whether or not a squad mate could return is binary - 0 or 1. Either 0 they did not survive or 1 they did survive.

Here is a clear way how deceased squad mates could be handled in Mass Effect 3. These possibilties are not mutually exclusive.

a)
Another NPC assumes their position. An example of this would be Urdnot
Wreav, who is the head of the Urdnot Clan if Wrex was killed. This NPC
would
not be a squad mate.Quests involved with this NPC may be altered
slightly or significantly due to the squad mate associated being
deceased.
B)
Some or all quests associated with the squad mate would either be
altered or unavailable. An example of this would be in Mass Effect 2 -
you cannot do the loyalty mission of the squad mate that was killed.
c)
The changes are minor or nonexistent so it almost appears as they had
never died. An example in Mass Effect 2 would be the news story of the
posthumous awards and dedications to the squad mate who died on Virmire.
d)
Not all squad mates would have to return. Zaeed, Kasumi, Samara and
other squad mates for example could very realistically have other
things to do.

Some
people have noted because any squad mate can die in the suicide
mission, those who did survive could not conceivably or realistically
return or have large roles. This is very false. Take for example Ashley
or Kaidan both of which can die, yet were said by Bioware as having a
large role in Mass Effect 3, in addition to being squad mates. It is a
fair point that Ashley or Kaidan have been interchangeable in their
roles so far, as one or the other appears on Horizon. However, what I
have said goes to show that potentially deceased characters can have
large roles.

Bioware has created the high quality games of Mass
Effect 1 and Mass Effect 2, both of which required ample amounts of
effort and talent. It is not beyond their ability to have fan favorites
return in ways that are satisfying to the fans.

In addition, as
we have seen in Mass Effect 2, we have squad mates that can have
important roles in the game or suicide mission yet do not exclude the
possbility of having a satisfactory ending if they are not recruited.

Also
take into account that the fans clearly want squad mates to return. And
as Christina Norman has shown with her comments on additional RPG
features in Mass Effect 3, Bioware listens to its fans.

social.bioware.com/892908/polls/2652/
This
poll has almost 50% of respondents saying outright that they would not
purchase Mass Effect 3 if the squad mates did not return. 8% do not
know whether or not they buy the game. Clearly these characters make
Mass Effect what it is.

social.bioware.com/892908/polls/1974/
This poll has over 80% of voters saying that Mass Effect 3 MUST have squad mates return in more significant ways than cameos.

#106
wulf3n

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Who here DOESN"T have a save file with all characters surviving the suicide mission (excluding those you killed on purpose :P)



people argue that bioware wont spend time developing stories for characters who have died in most ppls playthrough, but im guessing everyone has tried to keep everyone alive at least once.

#107
AKFTF

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I just want to put this out there regarding Samara: people are so quick to dismiss her. "Oh she's a Justicar, so she'll leave and battle injustice." That would make no sense. Her purpose is to protect the innocent. If the Reapers destroy sentient life, then there are no innocents to save. Logically she should stick with Shepard and help protect the galaxy. There is no higher cause than this. Don't dismiss her so easily.Posted Image

#108
thompsonaf

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

uhdnrt wrote...

I am not saying they won't be in the game - just that it is highly likely that you will start out with only 2 until you can rescue/recruit them all again.


Ah, ... opening plot twist!

But there, it's more likely one of ME1 characters (Liara or Ashley/Kaidan) will be in the starting duo, and one new.



Zulu, that opening would be epic and would be an easy way to open ME3.

Personally, i wouldn't mind having an opening cutscene where council spectres burst into Shep's secret base/normandy and kill everyone except for Shep and blow up his ship. Makes it more dramatic.

#109
Xsause

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AKFTF wrote...

I just want to put this out there regarding Samara: people are so quick to dismiss her. "Oh she's a Justicar, so she'll leave and battle injustice." That would make no sense. Her purpose is to protect the innocent. If the Reapers destroy sentient life, then there are no innocents to save. Logically she should stick with Shepard and help protect the galaxy. There is no higher cause than this. Don't dismiss her so easily.Posted Image


This, and the fact that she tells a Paragon Shepard that if he/she ever needs her services again, she'd be happy to join.

#110
megatron999

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what could happen is that squadmates die on various missions like with kaiden/ashley. the player than has the option of which ones to choose.



If half of your squadmates die i imagine you just replace them with new onese.



I also suspect (this is a warning to all low-spec pc users) that the game will be absolutely massive and take up lots of memory to run in order to play the various options.



So upgrade if you can .

#111
Walrusninja

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Um dude the first 2 games were , from what I read , about collecting the team for 3.....

Ye ofc at the start of 3 they'll blow up the McNormandy ... AGAIN .... cus nobody would see that coming!

I reckon people will die but if they kill them all at the start they may as well remake 1 and 2.

#112
Zulu_DFA

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thompsonaf wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

uhdnrt wrote...

I am not saying they won't be in the game - just that it is highly likely that you will start out with only 2 until you can rescue/recruit them all again.


Ah, ... opening plot twist!

But there, it's more likely one of ME1 characters (Liara or Ashley/Kaidan) will be in the starting duo, and one new.



Zulu, that opening would be epic and would be an easy way to open ME3.

Personally, i wouldn't mind having an opening cutscene where council spectres burst into Shep's secret base/normandy and kill everyone except for Shep and blow up his ship. Makes it more dramatic.


Shepard: TIM, I hate to admit it, but I'm going to need a new ship, and a new crew... To fight the Reapers, you know...
TIM: What happened to the old ones?
Shepard: Ugh... the aliens blew them away.
TIM: Told ya!

#113
Ray Joel Oh

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Nozybidaj wrote...

Without reading the thread, I'll just say that I sincerely hope the ME2 squad does NOT return as recruitable squad mates.

The whole reason that BW put forth for not having the ME1 crew in ME2 was so that they could be in ME3.

If the ME2 crew is all going to be returning in ME3 then what the point in the ridiculous story progressions given the the ME1 crew and what was the point of them not being in ME2?

Since we have already been robbed of a second chapter for these original characters I hope BW does not attempt to invest the time and resources developing content for all these potentially dead characters and inevitably taking away those resources from development for the original characters and their roles in ME3.

If the entire reason for them not being in ME2 was so they could be in ME3 I hope BW comes through on that explanation instead of it all having just been a big lie to soothe over the ME1 fans.


Sheesh you're bitter.  If the ME2 LIs come back, it won't mean they were lying, because it won't invalidate the fact that setting aside the ME1 LIs makes things a lot more manageable.  If the ME2 LIs come back, every currently available romance arc will have lasted as long as two games.  Both the ME2 and ME1 LIs would have had one game to start the romance, and one game for confrontation/continuation/conclusion of the romance.  If the ME1 LIs had been there for ME2, that suicide mission would have made things that much more complicated for all the relationships in ME3.  It's no longer just faithful to ME1 LI vs unfaithful to ME1, faithful to ME2 LI vs unfaithful to ME2 LI, it's also faithful to ME1 LI but he/she died, unfaithful but the ME2 LI died.  Having relationships carry over from one game to the next is already a tall order--anything they do to cut down on variables is understandable.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 10 avril 2010 - 09:05 .


#114
chucktheduck

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Default start up for new characters in ME3: Shepard died, he didn't make the jump. too bad.

#115
ExtremeOne

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Nozybidaj wrote...

Without reading the thread, I'll just say that I sincerely hope the ME2 squad does NOT return as recruitable squad mates.

The whole reason that BW put forth for not having the ME1 crew in ME2 was so that they could be in ME3.

If the ME2 crew is all going to be returning in ME3 then what the point in the ridiculous story progressions given the the ME1 crew and what was the point of them not being in ME2?

Since we have already been robbed of a second chapter for these original characters I hope BW does not attempt to invest the time and resources developing content for all these potentially dead characters and inevitably taking away those resources from development for the original characters and their roles in ME3.

If the entire reason for them not being in ME2 was so they could be in ME3 I hope BW comes through on that explanation instead of it all having just been a big lie to soothe over the ME1 fans.

  


wow a ME 1 lover spewing the same pro ME 1 crap. lets be honest the new squad Members in ME 2 make those 2 stupid ME 1 members worthless in the game . like I said they better bring the ME 2 squad members back the ones that lived or I will find a way in ME 3 to kill any all members of ME 1 squad 

#116
Ray Joel Oh

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We don't need to be rooting for ME1 vs ME2 LIs. It's a better story if they're all back.

#117
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Ray Joel Oh wrote...

We don't need to be rooting for ME1 vs ME2 LIs. It's a better story if they're all back.


This. I'd like it if all of the previous squadies could come back. Everyone would be happy. You could just bring the ones you liked on missions and talked with the ones you liked.

#118
jtav

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justinnstuff wrote...

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

We don't need to be rooting for ME1 vs ME2 LIs. It's a better story if they're all back.


This. I'd like it if all of the previous squadies could come back. Everyone would be happy. You could just bring the ones you liked on missions and talked with the ones you liked.


Agreed. We should all be hoping that as many squad mates as possible return in sizable roles. Everyone wins, everyone gets to carry their romance of choice across two games. I have no particular attachment to Liara, but I hope her fans get what they're looking for in ME3. Actively hoping that fans of a different character get shafted accomplishes nothing. We're all on the same team here.

#119
kraidy1117

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thompsonaf wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

uhdnrt wrote...

I am not saying they won't be in the game - just that it is highly likely that you will start out with only 2 until you can rescue/recruit them all again.


Ah, ... opening plot twist!

But there, it's more likely one of ME1 characters (Liara or Ashley/Kaidan) will be in the starting duo, and one new.



Zulu, that opening would be epic and would be an easy way to open ME3.

Personally, i wouldn't mind having an opening cutscene where council spectres burst into Shep's secret base/normandy and kill everyone except for Shep and blow up his ship. Makes it more dramatic.


Thank god you don't work for Bioware.

#120
megatron999

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heres what I think will happen;



Wrex+krogan are recruited to fight the reapers

Liara askes shepherd/team for help battling the shadow broker so she will then be recruitable

Legion will also convince the geth to join shepherd

Tali goes back to fleet to convince them to fight reapers in exchange geth give quarrians back there homeworld under strict conditions.



Those on the reapers side:

Batarians (hate humans)

Some Geth?

Vorcha (definetely as shock troops and upgraded)





You have to remember that all the ME1 characters were in ME2 so will be in ME3. In one form or another.



There will also be some character "deaths" options like in ME1 with kaiden and ashley


#121
wulf3n

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kraidy1117 wrote...

thompsonaf wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

uhdnrt wrote...

I am not saying they won't be in the game - just that it is highly likely that you will start out with only 2 until you can rescue/recruit them all again.


Ah, ... opening plot twist!

But there, it's more likely one of ME1 characters (Liara or Ashley/Kaidan) will be in the starting duo, and one new.



Zulu, that opening would be epic and would be an easy way to open ME3.

Personally, i wouldn't mind having an opening cutscene where council spectres burst into Shep's secret base/normandy and kill everyone except for Shep and blow up his ship. Makes it more dramatic.


Thank god you don't work for Bioware.


agreed

#122
kraidy1117

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megatron999 wrote...

heres what I think will happen;

Wrex+krogan are recruited to fight the reapers
Liara askes shepherd/team for help battling the shadow broker so she will then be recruitable
Legion will also convince the geth to join shepherd
Tali goes back to fleet to convince them to fight reapers in exchange geth give quarrians back there homeworld under strict conditions.

Those on the reapers side:
Batarians (hate humans)
Some Geth?
Vorcha (definetely as shock troops and upgraded)


You have to remember that all the ME1 characters were in ME2 so will be in ME3. In one form or another.

There will also be some character "deaths" options like in ME1 with kaiden and ashley


Reapers are threat to everyone, even the Heritics where just tools to the Reapers and useless. The only way people will help the reapers is if there are indoctrinated.

#123
wulf3n

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kraidy1117 wrote...
 The only way people will help the reapers is if there are indoctrinated.


Not necessarily, the idea of becoming, practically immortalized, by becoming a reaper, may appeal to some people. It appeals to me :devil:

#124
megatron999

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kraidy1117 wrote...

megatron999 wrote...

heres what I think will happen;

Wrex+krogan are recruited to fight the reapers
Liara askes shepherd/team for help battling the shadow broker so she will then be recruitable
Legion will also convince the geth to join shepherd
Tali goes back to fleet to convince them to fight reapers in exchange geth give quarrians back there homeworld under strict conditions.

Those on the reapers side:
Batarians (hate humans)
Some Geth?
Vorcha (definetely as shock troops and upgraded)


You have to remember that all the ME1 characters were in ME2 so will be in ME3. In one form or another.

There will also be some character "deaths" options like in ME1 with kaiden and ashley


Reapers are threat to everyone, even the Heritics where just tools to the Reapers and useless. The only way people will help the reapers is if there are indoctrinated.


But you forget that Saren joined with the reapers at first and was later indoctrinated. I remember him trying to convince shepherd that the only way to survive was to join the reapers.

The vorcha would join the reapers as shock troops i doubt the reapers would care at all whether they survived the coming war or not. 

The batarians would side with the reapers to gain revenge on humantiy, they may not necessarily think that far ahead. They may get the idea they can have more territory if everyone else dies.

I would love to be a reaper i would never have to work or pay taxes etc... I would be able to play online games with my other reaper buddies and later on loot and pillage other worlds. :happy:

#125
STG

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AKFTF wrote...

I just want to put this out there regarding Samara: people are so quick to dismiss her. "Oh she's a Justicar, so she'll leave and battle injustice." That would make no sense. Her purpose is to protect the innocent. If the Reapers destroy sentient life, then there are no innocents to save. Logically she should stick with Shepard and help protect the galaxy. There is no higher cause than this. Don't dismiss her so easily.Posted Image


Depends on your gameplay I think.

If you are a paragon then yeah, it makes sense that she will stick around since Shepard is a noble character. On the other hand if you are a renegade it's not too crazy that she might try to kill you once the suicide mission is complete for all the crap you did.

And if you are a paragade then it makes sense for Samara to leave your team and go back to her duty.