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As an RPG, Mass Effect 2 is kind of disappointing. I hope ME3 doesn't diappoint as well.


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#1
Indoctrination

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First of all, I just want to say that this is not a hate topic, and ME2 is indeed a very good game. I was really happy with the improvements to the shooter side of the game, and the little things like the character creation codes.

With that said, I can't help but feel that BioWare really dumbed down ME2 as an RPG. It was pretty bad that the game's biggest feature (decisions carrying over) turned out to be a complete joke, and almost all of the deep rewards and consequences of your ME1 decisions show themselves in the form of e-mails and news casts. The fact that whether or not you let Fist live seems to have more presence in ME2 than whether or not the council survived is kind of a bad joke, in my honest opinion. And while I'm being honest this seems part of an unfortunate trend of people at BioWare over-exaggerating features of their games. (Dragon Age is a 100 hour game, eh?) But anyway, that's not really what I'm complaining about here.

ME2 is simply lacking many of the RPG elements that made the first Mass Effect so rich. For example, in the first game many of the main plot missions have their own full sub-plots which make them interesting. You're on the mission to help your Saren investigation, but you get caught up in something bigger along the way, and the characters you meet become involved. Feros has you storming in, helping some colonists fight of a Geth attack. Then you explore the colony for a bit and chat up the colonists. Then you continue on your mission, fighting through the Geth, meet the Exogeni employees, chat them up for a bit, and learn some more about what's going on. Eventually you find out about the Thorian, mind control, etc. Feros is like the perfect model of what the format of a main plot world should be.

Now let's look at pretty much every main plot mission in ME2. "Shepard, there's this bad dude out there that I think you should recruit for your team. Go and fight your way through a giant flood of mercenaries to find him."
And when that's not the case, it's "Shepard, the Collector's are up to no good. Go fight your way through dozens of collectors for an hour or so to show them who's the boss."

Almost all of the ME2 missions feel like something out of a generic shooter. It feels like there's a bare minimal plot there because even shooters are expected to have basic minimal plots these days. These aren't things I should be saying about an RPG. I don't understand how the scenario writers could have allowed this to happen. There was so much potential too. Like with Samara's mission there was a murder sub-plot for a whole 5 minutes. This should have been the main sub-plot of the entire mission. Ideally, it would have been explore, talk to people about the murder, go and fight the oblogatory giant swarm of mercs, explore the murder some more, rinse and repeat until it becomes clear that the murder must have been done by one of a few suspects. Then throw in a nice plot twist. That would have been a good mission. Instead it's talk about the murder and Samara for 5 minutes, fight the mercs for an hour, recruit Samara. It feels completely soulless.

The party members are also a problem. I like the new party members, but I don't like how they seem to be mindless dolls much of the time. The party members seem much more like accessories for Shepard than actual living characters, you know? Maybe I've been spoiled by Dragon Age because of how amazing the characters were in that game, but party members shouldn't be side dishes. They should have opinions of pretty much everything, and they should be true to their own values. Like in DA:O, there should be moral lines that the player can cross which will cause conflict within the party. Fatal conflict even. But noooo, in ME2 everyone is Shepard's obedient servent who would not dare to turn against the master outside of the Jack-Miranda, and Tali-Legion argument scenes.

In a lot of ways the game play side of things has also had the RPG aspects dumbed down. The armour system in ME2 is just plain awful. Granted, the ME1 system was also awful and needed to go, but this replacement is not an improvement. The armour effects are so minimal that I just pick them based on their looks. I also ended up wearing the visor for the entire game just so I could see my character's face. Please remember Gene Roddenberry's rules of science fiction: If you can't see the eyes, or mouth of a character, you lose the actor. That's what happens when you use a helmet in ME2. You can't see any emotion on your character's face and a lot of the effect of many lines are simply lost.

I sincerely hope that Mass Effect 3 brings back the RPG-goodness that made the first Mass Effect such a legendary game. That means sub-plots that matter within missions that consist of more than just fighting a giant horde of mercs. If BioWare takes the RPG aspects of ME1 and combines them with the improved shooter aspects of ME2, then ME3 will truly be the best game in the series.

Modifié par Indoctrination, 09 avril 2010 - 04:48 .


#2
Karstedt

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Me too. But brace yourself for the flood of people calling you a whiner and h8er...

#3
jlb524

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I agree 100%.

#4
Guest_DrathanGervaise_*

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Yeah, I hear ya.



What really got me at first was that you couldn't click on your team mates and hear them comment on where you were. Made the missions a lot more lonely.

#5
Shazzammer2

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agreed agreed agreed.

#6
bjdbwea

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I fully and completely agree with the OP.

#7
ObserverStatus

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It seemed like it had less rpg elements by Bioware standards, but it was still better than most rpgs i've tried.

#8
cj3style

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signed

#9
inversevideo

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Never-you-mind the H8ers.



As long as you are not ranting, Bioware needs, and wants the feedback, as it can be very hard to know how to allocate development funds, without taking the 'temperature' of those who pay for the finished product.



Just be aware that we all do not share the same world view.

With ME2, Bioware seems to have made some needed compromises, in order to broaden the fan base. I can't fault them for that. Development and production costs money. More fans, for your product, more money.



The problem, for RPG enthusiasts, of which I am one, is that there are not that many RPGs to begin with, and very few high quality RPGs like Oblivion or Mass Effect.



So, if you are a fan of the RPG genre, as I am, it's a pleasure to immerse yourself in a game/world this compelling.



But let's face it, we are in a 'downturn' economy.

It is no secret that the videogame industry is feeling the pinch, as are many sectors of the economy. Bioware has to respond to economic realities, and that means shortening development time, trimming costs on voice talent, gauging what the majority of video gamers find appealing, and trying to judge just how much to put into each game.



Given all they have to deal with I don't think Bioware did that badly with ME2.



I can honestly say I enjoyed the loyalty missions, and there were many parts of the game that I liked. Those things that I did not like, I could more or less ignore.



But I do know what you mean about plot development, as I felt that the story telling was better done in ME1, HOTU, MOTB, and DA:O, than it was in ME2



Or maybe, between ME1 & ME2, I've been spoiled by DA:O?



I've gotten used to my companions chatting to each other, or even arguing while we travel.

Of being able to ask them questions, as we move about, and learn something more about each companion. This is something Bioware did decently enough in NWN, but even better in DA:O.



The side missions, re, the Cerberus or N7 missions seem a bit too light, more like an arcade exercise, see how many things you can run around and shoot at.



That said, I'm hoping for more DLC like BDtS, or Kasumi's Stolen Memories, or even Zaeed's revenge. And I would love to see some full fledged expansion packs, along the lines of what Bethedsa did with Oblivion (Knights of the Nine, or Shivering Isles), or with Fallout. I have no problem paying Bioware, for their labour.



I sense that Bioware is trying to figure out how best to allocate development funds, whether that be voice actors, or story development; as they fine tune to hit the 'sweet spot' between development costs and profits (return on investment). I'm sure the costs of development and production have increased, while the retail cost has not risen much, over the past few years (still about $59.00 USD, or less per game).



There are some fans that argue for all DLC to be free, which is not reasonable, in my opinion.

Developers and actors need to be paid, no?



DLC is one way to keep an IP fresh, and get use out of the development you already put into the game. So I am hoping that Bioware will give us more DLC like BDtS or Kasumi; or event the occasional mini expansion (ala 'Shivering Isles' that Bethedsa did for Oblivion), for which I would gladly support Bioware with my dollars.



Just my opinion, YMMV


#10
LPPrince

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I agree. I think Bioware can strike the happy balance.



The visceral combat of ME2 with the enriching story of ME1=ME3, one of if not the greatest game to come out on Xbox 360 and PC.

#11
Skadhi1

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I agree with the OP.

#12
kidbd15

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Agree with OP!

#13
Valmy

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I do not think it was worse as an RPG overall than ME1 but there were certainly some parts of ME1 that were better. Feros is a good example. There are certainly some things that can be improved on as much as alot of us did love ME2. I am certainl Bioware would agree.  Disappointing?  No.  Could be better?  Yes.

I think alot of the conflict on this point comes from saying: there were problems ergo it failed.  Even those of us who agree with all your points might take exception to calling the game disappointing or a failure in some way.

By the way Dragon Age did take me 100 hours to play Image IPB

Oh and finally I agree with all constructive points about the game.  I hope Bioware is paying attention.

Modifié par Valmy, 09 avril 2010 - 06:26 .


#14
MassAffected

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This is the kind of feedback I can actually get behind. Good job OP in presenting this in a constructive manner...and I'm one of those people that loves to yell h8ter and whiner ;p

#15
SovereignT

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Remember kids less strong RPG elements does not automatically mean no RPG element.

#16
RyuGuitarFreak

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SovereignT wrote...

Remember kids less strong RPG elements does not automatically mean no RPG element.


They will never understand. I gave up.

#17
Gill Kaiser

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My first Dragon Age playthrough took over 80 hours. I see no reason why someone slower than myself couldn't have taken over 100. That game is long.

#18
Guest_justinnstuff_*

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While I think ME2 was a great game, it definitely doesn't deserve an entire "RPG" classification. It's pretty shooter oriented. I hope they take the best from ME1 and 2 and make it into an "RPG" again and make it the best game ever.

#19
Indoctrination

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Gill Kaiser wrote...

My first Dragon Age playthrough took over 80 hours. I see no reason why someone slower than myself couldn't have taken over 100. That game is long.


I did like 80% of the side quests available and finished it in 45 hours, so i'm just going to have to take your word for it.

#20
Gill Kaiser

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Did you skip dialogue or something?

#21
Indoctrination

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Gill Kaiser wrote...

Did you skip dialogue or something?


No. Quite the opposite, actually. I went out of my way to even do all of the unnecessary side dialogue.

#22
Mister Mida

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I've already read some articles where Christina Norman says ME3 will be more RPG oriented(WOOHOO!), so your dream (and mine) will come true.



But still I'll sign.

#23
Indoctrination

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Mister Mida wrote...

I've already read some articles where Christina Norman says ME3 will be more RPG oriented(WOOHOO!), so your dream (and mine) will come true. But still I'll sign.


Oh yeah? That sounds interesting. Would you happen to have the links to those articles on hand by any chance?:wub:

#24
JamieCOTC

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I agree for the most part. I wouldn't call ME2 a failure. BW has whittled down the RPG elements to be sure, but I enjoyed many of the missions. The recent Kasumi quest being one of the best, yet it could have been so much better w/ more RPG and less kill, kill, kill. Personally, I'm not a big fan of shooters. ME2 and Fallout 3 are the only ones I own and both have great stories. It's just a shame that Fallout 3 has more RPG elements than ME2 and it's pretty much a straight on FPS. Thanks for the post, OP.

#25
JamieCOTC

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Mister Mida wrote...

I've already read some articles where Christina Norman says ME3 will be more RPG oriented(WOOHOO!), so your dream (and mine) will come true.

But still I'll sign.


great news! :D