380 réponses à ce sujet

[BaladasDemnevanni]

smudboy wrote...

All you have to do, is give me one example where Shepard is integral to the plot of ME2.  That's all.  Something they do, something they think, that puts the plot in motion, that gives us the next scene or series of events, that could not be done by anyone else.  (For example, Mordin is integral to the plot of ME2, because without his countermeasure, the party could not get to Horizon.)

If you cannot prove this, then you must concede you do not understand what I'm writing, or you simply cannot answer the question.

Everything you've just said here can be applied to the plot of ME1 as well. In Shepard's place, we could have had Kaidan. He could have led the ground team and he would have been the individual who absorbed the Prothean Beacon. Then it would have been he who investigated Saren and gone to Ilos. Likewise, as you say, anyone could have recruited the team for the suicide mission in ME2. It's that simple. Shepard by virtue of being himself is not integral to either game. Between ME1 and ME2, all we know is that the Alliance and Cerberus respectively value him above most others.

The only difference I see in this regard is that by ME2 Cerberus actually has a reason for seeking out Shepard. As a "sole survivor", I wouldn't say I felt overly qualified to become a Spectre in ME1 you see.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 10 avril 2010 - 07:30 .

[erehwon6811]

I do miss some of the RPG elements from the first game.  It just feels so limited now.  Bioware went from maybe too much choice to almost none.  I really miss the variety of armors you could get for your entire squad.  I liked customizing the look of my entire squad.  In ME2, we're stuck 2 choices for team mates and a handful for Shepard.  I'm not really counting the costum pack since It wasn't very good.

For ME3, I would like to see them combine elements from the armor systems.  I would like them to bring back the armors from ME1.  They had some really good looking ones.  I did like in ME2 how you could customize Shepard's default armor.  It would be nice if we could have done that for the rest of the crew.  I don't need to comment on the helmet issue.

I did enjoy Mass Effect 2, but my main disappointment was in exploration.  The Citadel, Illium, and Omega were quite smaller areas to explore compared to ME1 places.  It felt like we were moving to different levels instead of being immersed in a large world.

I look at the ME games as a hybrid RPG and shooter.  I'm just hoping that Bioware will swing the back towards the middle for ME3.

[smudboy]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
You are failing to put the reapers in the equation of ME's 2 plot and relate it to Shepard. Shepard wasn't put back in action to NECESSARILY pursue the Collectors or save the human colonies, Cerberus has made him comeback to fight the reapers in the first place, ergo, all the MAIN plot of the Mass Effect SAGA: The fight of Shepard against the reapers. That's the first thing TIM says to Shepard. The story wouldn't continue if it wasn't related to the reapers. If you relate it at how Shepard was/is somehow alone with the Normandy crew to
stop them, you can even make it bigger relation, something they can even come up with in ME3.

"Stop the Collectors (who are agents of the Reapers) from taking human colonies."

Notice how ME2's plot does not change.

Shepard is the related to the reapers as he has the cypher, he has seen the protheans visions (yeah, a plot hole as he could make Liara meld with the councilor), stopped Sovereign, got killed by the Collectors (reapers somehow), and got back to stop them. You can say the suicide mission and stop the Collectors is related to the plot as was the pursuit of Saren and finding the conduit on ME1, a plot behind the bigger plot of the fight against the reapers.

"Mordin is related to the Collectors because he can make a countermeasure that allows the plot of ME2 to continue." <--  That is a relevant statement to what is essential to ME2's plot.

You simply listed how Shepard is related to ME1.  So?  This is not about ME1.  This is not about ME3.  This is about Shepard.  Being.  Irreplaceable.  In ME2.  (psst: Shepard is completely replaceable.)

And since you've yet to show me how Shepard is irreplaceable to ME2's plot, I'll conclude you've no evidence.

You can say Bioware screwed up when they killed him, and made all that story of his comeback for Cerberus. But the Collectors and their relationship to the reapers would be reason enough why Shepard would go after them.

Again, listing reasons why TIM wants Shepard, why Miranda wants Shepard, why person x wants Shepard: nothing to do with ME2's plot.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

smudboy wrote...

"Stop the Collectors (who are agents of the Reapers) from taking human colonies."

Notice how ME2's plot does not change.

"Mordin is related to the Collectors because he can make a countermeasure that allows the plot of ME2 to continue." <--  That is a relevant statement to what is essential to ME2's plot.

You simply listed how Shepard is related to ME1.  So?  This is not about ME1.  This is not about ME3.  This is about Shepard.  Being.  Irreplaceable.  In ME2.  (psst: Shepard is completely replaceable.)

And since you've yet to show me how Shepard is irreplaceable to ME2's plot, I'll conclude you've no evidence.

Again, listing reasons why TIM wants Shepard, why Miranda wants Shepard, why person x wants Shepard: nothing to do with ME2's plot.

I would like to hear how precisely Shepard is 'critical' in Mass Effect 1. Please, raise us from our ignorance.

[Halmiriliath]

Indoctrination wrote...

I'll concede that a lot of the loyalty missions are pretty fun. It's too bad that all of the mandatory missions couldn't be like those. As for "dismissing the lack of depth or plot", if you feel that "5-10 minutes of plot, 50 minutes of shooting mercenaries) is a poor description of Samara's mission, you're more than welcome to try and give a different description of it. I don't see how you could, when that's the literal truth, but don't let that stop you.:innocent:

What would have made ME2 more of an RPG for me? Aside from the big issues I've been mentioning, there's always the little things. Characters having dialogue with each other while you're on a mission, a deeper leveling/talent system, bigger side goals with huge rewards for people willing to work for them (think of some of the really old RPGs where you'd have that one amazing sword or armour in a shop that would cost a fortune to purchase), stuff like that. Basically what would make it a more worthy RPG would be to have more meaningful features that existed outside of fighting giant hordes of mercs.

I distinctly remember posting that there is room for improvement in the missions, and Samara's is indeed one that I think could have been worked on a bit more. Personally, I would like to have had a longer conversation with Samara in order to persuade her of the immediacy of the Collector/Reaper threat, rather than exploring the drugs issue which is frankly - as Shepard says elsewhere - far below his/her pay grade.

Re. 'little things' - with the acknowledged shortage of character interaction/independence - are there not thousands of little things dotted throughout the galaxy to be found that either built upon little/big things you did in the first game or were implemented by fan suggestion? I personally enjoyed my little 'encounter' with Conrad; the conversation with the envoy from the Rachni Queen; the advert for Blasto the Hanar Spectre; the encounter with Fist and Helena Blake; the 'reminiscence' with Harkin; the warm reception Wrex gave me on Tuchanka; squad comments on hub worlds; the news reports that you hear in 'civilised' worlds (which, regardless of the denigration they receive here, I very much enjoy); and countless other tidbits, in-references and brilliant touches that make this game so immersive. For me, one of the cornerstones of an RPG is immersion, and I've rarely felt so immersed in a game as I have in Mass Effect 1 and 2.

Regarding rewards for going out of your way to do stuff, while I appreciate things like this and feel like it has its place in grand games like the Baldur's Gate franchise, I think it would be slightly out of context to go on grand, time-consuming escapades for nice rewards that don't bear much relevance to the overall plot. The Collector's will abduct more colonies and the Reaper invasion crawls ever more nearer with each second lost, and Shepard is pretty much unwelcome wherever he/she goes. I got a sense of claustrophobia and exclusion that I thought the developers crafted brilliantly in this game that I think sometimes goes unnoticed, and is more worthy of praise.

Modifié par Halmiriliath, 10 avril 2010 - 08:24 .

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

smudboy wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
You are failing to put the reapers in the equation of ME's 2 plot and relate it to Shepard. Shepard wasn't put back in action to NECESSARILY pursue the Collectors or save the human colonies, Cerberus has made him comeback to fight the reapers in the first place, ergo, all the MAIN plot of the Mass Effect SAGA: The fight of Shepard against the reapers. That's the first thing TIM says to Shepard. The story wouldn't continue if it wasn't related to the reapers. If you relate it at how Shepard was/is somehow alone with the Normandy crew to
stop them, you can even make it bigger relation, something they can even come up with in ME3.

"Stop the Collectors (who are agents of the Reapers) from taking human colonies."

Notice how ME2's plot does not change.

Shepard is the related to the reapers as he has the cypher, he has seen the protheans visions (yeah, a plot hole as he could make Liara meld with the councilor), stopped Sovereign, got killed by the Collectors (reapers somehow), and got back to stop them. You can say the suicide mission and stop the Collectors is related to the plot as was the pursuit of Saren and finding the conduit on ME1, a plot behind the bigger plot of the fight against the reapers.

"Mordin is related to the Collectors because he can make a countermeasure that allows the plot of ME2 to continue." <--  That is a relevant statement to what is essential to ME2's plot.

You simply listed how Shepard is related to ME1.  So?  This is not about ME1.  This is not about ME3.  This is about Shepard.  Being.  Irreplaceable.  In ME2.  (psst: Shepard is completely replaceable.)

And since you've yet to show me how Shepard is irreplaceable to ME2's plot, I'll conclude you've no evidence.

You can say Bioware screwed up when they killed him, and made all that story of his comeback for Cerberus. But the Collectors and their relationship to the reapers would be reason enough why Shepard would go after them.

Again, listing reasons why TIM wants Shepard, why Miranda wants Shepard, why person x wants Shepard: nothing to do with ME2's plot.

You want an Reason: Because no alien race will give miranda or any other human another look with an Cerbersus logo asking for their help. That's why. Human first spectre, savor the Citadel, saved how many speices? commanded alot of respect.

replaceable and not important to the plot my butt. Try putting another person to replace Sheppard for the Quarian loyality mission, See how far your "Infulence" goes. Not very far in my opinon. Hell half the reason why the quarians even let you in on the trial is because You helped Tali on her Travels, she joined you to help you fight the herectic geth, and you are the first human who probably ever had an quarian's, as a race, respect.

Krogan - Same thing.


Now- if you say that I am bringing ME1 things into this, This is flat-out told to you by the quarian admirals and Wrex themselves/himself, ergo - it's ME2 plot. Sheppard is not replacable. Period. He has too many connections, too many ties that would need to be rebuilt for a new character to come in. Garrus wouldn't trust anyone else. Tali wouldn't. Wrex wouldn't. I'm sure the council wouldn't as well as Anderson. Ontop of that - I doubt Kasumi would have joined you since she isn't a major fan of you, You wouldn't have joker- who is as loyal as hell to sheppard. And sheppard only.

"O hey, I kindof knew sheppard, he was an great guy and all. I try to do good things."

"O hi Conrad/Cerbersus Agent, go **** yourself. Thanks for killing the geth though, but I Ain't coming with you." - Tali. (Also doubt the Quarian admirality board would have accepted her transfer to you unless you were sheppard).

"Commander conrad, you are not commander sheppard, A more easier match to find would be Wrex or Tali since they hold more infulence over you. Their chances of surivival are unlikely however." - Legion

If sheppard was remotely replacable, then you could import your dead sheppard into ME3. You are missing very important details that OTHER people have tried to tell you.

You can not rip 1/3 of an book out - IE the middle and say the main character is unimportant/replacable. It's a game that is suppose to link ME1 and M3 together and at the very least, link ME1 and ME2 together. By not putting this into the main picture, you are missing the overall big picture.

ME2 is an subplot of the main plot sure, but it's not like it has strayed from the farm here as after-all, you just forced the reapers to give their lazy dark energy butts to destroy you. How is that NOT part of the overall general plot? How does sheppard not fit in? The Reapers killed him for an reason and TIM bought him back. To make matters worse, they were not able to complete their human reaper and sheppard, yet AGAIN wreaks their plans. Sheppard is the lynch pin that holds everything together, otherwise things just fall apart.... like when sheppard dies.

Sheppard Kills Sovereign, Stops the invasion of the Citadel from the reapers

Sheppards kill the Collectors - Agents of the Reapers who are making ANOTHER reaper. And after destroying them, makes the reapers all start heading for our lovely milky way.

Sheppard. Is. not. Replaceable.

.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

smudboy wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
You are failing to put the reapers in the equation of ME's 2 plot and relate it to Shepard. Shepard wasn't put back in action to NECESSARILY pursue the Collectors or save the human colonies, Cerberus has made him comeback to fight the reapers in the first place, ergo, all the MAIN plot of the Mass Effect SAGA: The fight of Shepard against the reapers. That's the first thing TIM says to Shepard. The story wouldn't continue if it wasn't related to the reapers. If you relate it at how Shepard was/is somehow alone with the Normandy crew to
stop them, you can even make it bigger relation, something they can even come up with in ME3.

"Stop the Collectors (who are agents of the Reapers) from taking human colonies."

Notice how ME2's plot does not change.

Shepard is the related to the reapers as he has the cypher, he has seen the protheans visions (yeah, a plot hole as he could make Liara meld with the councilor), stopped Sovereign, got killed by the Collectors (reapers somehow), and got back to stop them. You can say the suicide mission and stop the Collectors is related to the plot as was the pursuit of Saren and finding the conduit on ME1, a plot behind the bigger plot of the fight against the reapers.

"Mordin is related to the Collectors because he can make a countermeasure that allows the plot of ME2 to continue."

You simply listed how Shepard is related to ME1. So? This is not about ME1. This is not about ME3. This is about Shepard. Being. Irreplaceable. In ME2. (psst: Shepard is completely replaceable.)

And since you've yet to show me how Shepard is irreplaceable to ME2's plot, I'll conclude you've no evidence.

You can say Bioware screwed up when they killed him, and made all that story of his comeback for Cerberus. But the Collectors and their relationship to the reapers would be reason enough why Shepard would go after them.

Again, listing reasons why TIM wants Shepard, why Miranda wants Shepard, why person x wants Shepard: nothing to do with ME2's plot.

Change "Stop the Collectors" to "Stop the reapers" and it is the same thing. Yes it is. THIS IS ABOUT ME1. It's a sequel to ME1's plot. Cerberus got Shepard back, because what he did in ME1. ME1 events made even death by the Collectors not an obstacle (at least in the beginning of ME2 lol) to the continuation of Shepard's story.

And yet you are again leaving the reapers out of question, and you're ignoring the fact that Shepard himself would want to go after the Collectors as they are connected to reapers, and you've been just following his story. Again, you could say Bioware screwed up by killing him, making him get out of the game and the story could just follow up (psst: Bioware and the Illusive Man said it can't, lol) with you controlling another errr Shepard wannabe. But Bioware just slaped you in the face and you can't as Shepard can die in ME2 and you're not gonna able to take that save to ME3.

Shepard IS Irreplaceable as you can't continue your story to the point of Shepard's death in ME2 and this way you can assume the reapers came somehow and obliterated all life of the galaxy. Like it or not, Shepard will be the one to stop the reapers, not Miranda or anyone else, they will fail.

I AGREE with you that Shepard is not decisive to the continuation of ME2's story AFTER his death, but there are REASONS that made him get back. Cerberus found Shepard irreplaceable to stop the reapers and made him cheat death. It was a bad plot decision and your posts made me realize it, but there are REASONS why it happened, and that, you can't continue ignoring. Well actually you can I'm gonna assume you will.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 10 avril 2010 - 08:52 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Change "Stop the Collectors" to "Stop the reapers" and it is the same thing. Yes it is. THIS IS ABOUT ME1. It's a sequel to ME1's plot. Cerberus got Shepard back, because what he did in ME1. ME1 events made even death by the Collectors not an obstacle (at least in the beginning of ME2 lol) to the continuation of Shepard's story. And yet you are again leaving the reapers out of question, and you're ignoring the fact that Shepard himself would want to go after the Collectors as they are connected to reapers, and you've been just following his story. Again, you could say Bioware screwed up by killing him, making him get out of the game and the story could just follow up (psst: Bioware and the Illusive Man said it can't, lol) with you controlling another errr Shepard wannabe. But Bioware just slaped you in the face and you can't as Shepard can die in ME2 and you're not gonna able to take that save to ME3. Shepard IS Irreplaceable as you can't continue your story to the point of Shepard's death in ME2 and this way you can assume the reapers came somehow and obliterated all life of the galaxy. Like it or not, Shepard will be the one to stop the reapers, not Miranda or anyone else, they will fail. I AGREE with you that Shepard is not decisive to the continuation of ME2's story AFTER his death, but there are REASONS that made him get back. Cerberus found Shepard irreplaceable to stop the reapers and made him cheat death. It was a bad plot decision and your posts made me realize it, but there are REASONS why it happened, and that, you can't continue ignoring. Well actually you can I'm gonna assume you will.

These are some damn good points and I agree, but you might want to break it down into a few paragraphs. Just a suggestion.

[V-time]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

smudboy wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
You are failing to put the reapers in the equation of ME's 2 plot and relate it to Shepard. Shepard wasn't put back in action to NECESSARILY pursue the Collectors or save the human colonies, Cerberus has made him comeback to fight the reapers in the first place, ergo, all the MAIN plot of the Mass Effect SAGA: The fight of Shepard against the reapers. That's the first thing TIM says to Shepard. The story wouldn't continue if it wasn't related to the reapers. If you relate it at how Shepard was/is somehow alone with the Normandy crew to
stop them, you can even make it bigger relation, something they can even come up with in ME3.

"Stop the Collectors (who are agents of the Reapers) from taking human colonies."

Notice how ME2's plot does not change.

Shepard is the related to the reapers as he has the cypher, he has seen the protheans visions (yeah, a plot hole as he could make Liara meld with the councilor), stopped Sovereign, got killed by the Collectors (reapers somehow), and got back to stop them. You can say the suicide mission and stop the Collectors is related to the plot as was the pursuit of Saren and finding the conduit on ME1, a plot behind the bigger plot of the fight against the reapers.

"Mordin is related to the Collectors because he can make a countermeasure that allows the plot of ME2 to continue." <--  That is a relevant statement to what is essential to ME2's plot.

You simply listed how Shepard is related to ME1.  So?  This is not about ME1.  This is not about ME3.  This is about Shepard.  Being.  Irreplaceable.  In ME2.  (psst: Shepard is completely replaceable.)

And since you've yet to show me how Shepard is irreplaceable to ME2's plot, I'll conclude you've no evidence.

You can say Bioware screwed up when they killed him, and made all that story of his comeback for Cerberus. But the Collectors and their relationship to the reapers would be reason enough why Shepard would go after them.

Again, listing reasons why TIM wants Shepard, why Miranda wants Shepard, why person x wants Shepard: nothing to do with ME2's plot.

You want an Reason: Because no alien race will give miranda or any other human another look with an Cerbersus logo asking for their help. That's why. Human first spectre, savor the Citadel, saved how many speices? commanded alot of respect.

replaceable and not important to the plot my butt. Try putting another person to replace Sheppard for the Quarian loyality mission, See how far your "Infulence" goes. Not very far in my opinon. Hell half the reason why the quarians even let you in on the trial is because You helped Tali on her Travels, she joined you to help you fight the herectic geth, and you are the first human who probably ever had an quarian's, as a race, respect.

Krogan - Same thing.


Now- if you say that I am bringing ME1 things into this, This is flat-out told to you by the quarian admirals and Wrex themselves/himself, ergo - it's ME2 plot. Sheppard is not replacable. Period. He has too many connections, too many ties that would need to be rebuilt for a new character to come in. Garrus wouldn't trust anyone else. Tali wouldn't. Wrex wouldn't. I'm sure the council wouldn't as well as Anderson. Ontop of that - I doubt Kasumi would have joined you since she isn't a major fan of you, You wouldn't have joker- who is as loyal as hell to sheppard. And sheppard only.

"O hey, I kindof knew sheppard, he was an great guy and all. I try to do good things."

"O hi Conrad/Cerbersus Agent, go **** yourself. Thanks for killing the geth though, but I Ain't coming with you." - Tali. (Also doubt the Quarian admirality board would have accepted her transfer to you unless you were sheppard).

"Commander conrad, you are not commander sheppard, A more easier match to find would be Wrex or Tali since they hold more infulence over you. Their chances of surivival are unlikely however." - Legion

If sheppard was remotely replacable, then you could import your dead sheppard into ME3. You are missing very important details that OTHER people have tried to tell you.

You can not rip 1/3 of an book out - IE the middle and say the main character is unimportant/replacable. It's a game that is suppose to link ME1 and M3 together and at the very least, link ME1 and ME2 together. By not putting this into the main picture, you are missing the overall big picture.

ME2 is an subplot of the main plot sure, but it's not like it has strayed from the farm here as after-all, you just forced the reapers to give their lazy dark energy butts to destroy you. How is that NOT part of the overall general plot? How does sheppard not fit in? The Reapers killed him for an reason and TIM bought him back. To make matters worse, they were not able to complete their human reaper and sheppard, yet AGAIN wreaks their plans. Sheppard is the lynch pin that holds everything together, otherwise things just fall apart.... like when sheppard dies.

Sheppard Kills Sovereign, Stops the invasion of the Citadel from the reapers

Sheppards kill the Collectors - Agents of the Reapers who are making ANOTHER reaper. And after destroying them, makes the reapers all start heading for our lovely milky way.

Sheppard. Is. not. Replaceable.

.

The Quarian Admirals and Wrex only tell you this if you acted like it in ME1 e.g. saved Wrex and gave Tali the Geth data. This is again just your personal Shepards story as the default Shepard killed Wrex and i do not know if he gave Tali the data.

In ME1 Shepard was essential for the plot since he got the message of the beacon and was a candidate for first human spectre. Kaidan for instance can´t replace him since he was never considered for the spectre position and the council wants to send a Spectre after a rogue one. This could be any specte but since a human colony was attacked and due to Udina and the Humans in general pressuring for more power the council thought it was in their best interest to send Shepard after Saren (since they were reluctant in the first place they may have hoped for Shepard to fail so they could show humanity they aren´t ready yet). This is Shepards connection to the plot and the reason he is essential for the story. political reason as well as the vision of the prothean beacon.

Now to ME2. The plot is stopping the collector threat. I have to agree here that Shepard is not essential to the plot in it´s current form. In fact i would argue that this would have been a nice Spin-off plot in the time where Shepard was reconstructed and out of comission and you play as Liara or some other old squadmate and take care of the issue and once Shepard comes back you give him the info you gathered. Another possibility to make Shepard essential to the plot (and explaining why a Paragon Shep works with Cerberus) would have been the control chip. You can still be a Paragon but are in the end forced to work with Cerberus where a renegade Shepard would willingly work with them. Somewhere to the end you figure out a way to make the chip malfunction and tell TIM to get lost and it´s fine.
But in the current plot there is almost nothing that couldn´t be done by generic super soldier X. No plot point dealing with your prior knowledge of the reaper. No further infortion of the beacon (besides the refresh in that one side mission). Spectre status just for show. Garrus would have followed almost anyone if they gave him something worthwhile to fight and Tali may need some convincing but that´s basically it.

So in the end i can´t think of a single thing only Shepard was capable of doing (or having a story purpose) beside him being the player character. I have to agree that this doesn´t seem like good writing.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

These are some damn good points and I agree, but you might want to break it down into a few paragraphs. Just a suggestion.

Yeah, as soon as I posted I realized it was a damn wall of text lol. Edited for better view, thanks for the advice.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

V-time wrote...

1. In ME1 Shepard was essential for the plot since he got the message of the beacon and was a candidate for first human spectre. Kaidan for instance can´t replace him since he was never considered for the spectre position and the council wants to send a Spectre after a rogue one.

2. This could be any specte but since a human colony was attacked and due to Udina and the Humans in general pressuring for more power the council thought it was in their best interest to send Shepard after Saren (since they were reluctant in the first place they may have hoped for Shepard to fail so they could show humanity they aren´t ready yet). This is Shepards connection to the plot and the reason he is essential for the story. political reason as well as the vision of the prothean beacon.

1. But that still doesn't make him essential if we follow Smudboy's ruling. Any other character in his shoes could have filled the exact same role. Capable or not, Shepard is not the only one with combat experience. Let's assume Shepard had not been involved and kaidan had been made the potential spectre as a result. He would have touched the Prothean beacon and he would have pursued Saren. This is no different to how we are assuming that Miranda could have recruited your team and lead them through Omega IV. Is there any decision or action Shepard takes with regards to the plot in ME1which could not have been filled by any other character, whether its blowing up the facility on Virmire, etc?

Shepard's role in ME2 was truly no different from ME1. In ME1, he was chosen based on your background, though I consider this fairly weak. In ME2, he was chosen for his instrumental role in stopping the Reaper invasion.

2. This particular point I didn't buy when they explained it. The fact of the matter is that Saren was the Council's top agent. It would make more sense to send their second highest ranked Spectre(or perhaps a small group of Spectres) to take Saren down, not some rookie. Shepard still hadn't been observed in action by a fellow Spectre. I thought it would have made more sense if he had been given more missions by the Council, especially since my achievements (and why they chose me as a potential Spectre) had consisted merely of 'sole survivor'.  How does this relate to a Spectre's ability to get the job done?

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 10 avril 2010 - 09:01 .

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

V-time wrote...

The Quarian Admirals and Wrex only tell you this if you acted like it in ME1 e.g. saved Wrex and gave Tali the Geth data. This is again just your personal Shepards story as the default Shepard killed Wrex and i do not know if he gave Tali the data.

Really now, Didn't know about Tali-data thing.

Now to ME2. The plot is stopping the collector threat. I have to agree here that Shepard is not essential to the plot in it´s current form. In fact i would argue that this would have been a nice Spin-off plot in the time where Shepard was reconstructed and out of comission and you play as Liara or some other old squadmate and take care of the issue and once Shepard comes back you give him the info you gathered. Another possibility to make Shepard essential to the plot (and explaining why a Paragon Shep works with Cerberus) would have been the control chip. You can still be a Paragon but are in the end forced to work with Cerberus where a renegade Shepard would willingly work with them. Somewhere to the end you figure out a way to make the chip malfunction and tell TIM to get lost and it´s fine.
But in the current plot there is almost nothing that couldn´t be done by generic super soldier X. No plot point dealing with your prior knowledge of the reaper. No further infortion of the beacon (besides the refresh in that one side mission). Spectre status just for show. Garrus would have followed almost anyone if they gave him something worthwhile to fight and Tali may need some convincing but that´s basically it.

So in the end i can´t think of a single thing only Shepard was capable of doing (or having a story purpose) beside him being the player character. I have to agree that this doesn´t seem like good writing.

Once you remove sheppard from the equation, anything could have happened. There is too many variables to say for sure, for all you know, removing sheppard could means the galaxy just super-nova's or something in 2 years. To say otherwise, is completely stupid especially now that ME2 is out. Techinally sheppard has had over 2 years of recovery time already.

You can judge an loyality mission all you want, but you can't just go without jacob to face his father, or do the heist without Kasumi. Why? Because this is THEIR plot. THEIR story. You can say s/he/it is replacable all you want, but in the end, it's an butterfly effect whenever you remove an variable, and even an greater effect can occur if
remove something major... say a main character. A story that is about sheppard does not continue to be about sheppard when the main character is removed.

But to be honest, I highly doubt there is an genertic super solider X lying around in a line to be john sheppard. Having the combat experince of killing hundreds of geth, forming galactic ties etc.. Not everyone has that on a Resume. You also don't take into account the fact that he is to quote miranada - "A bloody Icon".

People love icons and symbols. It's like master-cheif or any of the spartans, once their precense is MADE known on the battlefield, all the other UNSC soldiers have inspiration that wasn't there a second ago. A drive that did not exist before. A hope that they would be able to surivive the battle they are in. Sheppard is too important of an icon to the fans of ME as well as to the main story. He is the master-chief of Mass Effect that gives courage to others to do their damnest to kill enemies and complete their tasks because they have complete and utter trust in his decisions.

Having Genertic Super Soldier X would not have been as thrilling as ME1 Sheppard, Sales would have been hampered serverily. That's even worse writing in my opinon since most of the fans want to play sheppard, not another solider. This is Mass Effect 2. Story of how sheppard continued to kick the reapers Asses. Sheppard is the right person, at the right time, at the right place.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 10 avril 2010 - 09:09 .

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...


1. But that still doesn't make him essential if we follow Smudboy's ruling. Any other character in his shoes could have filled the exact same role. Capable or not, Shepard is not the only one with combat experience. Let's assume Shepard had not been involved and kaidan had been made the potential spectre as a result. He would have touched the Prothean beacon and he would have pursued Saren. This is no different to how we are assuming that Miranda could have recruited your team and lead them through Omega IV. Is there any decision or action Shepard takes with regards to the plot in ME1which could not have been filled by any other character, whether its blowing up the facility on Virmire, etc?

No there isn't anything in ME1 plot that could not be done by someone else. But then that someone else would have been in sheppards shoes. So this is now X's story, not sheppards.

2. This particular point I didn't buy when they explained it. The fact of the matter is that Saren was the Council's top agent. It would make more sense to send their second highest ranked Spectre(or perhaps a small group of Spectres) to take Saren down, not some rookie. Shepard still hadn't been observed in action by a fellow Spectre. I thought it would have made more sense if he had been given more missions by the Council, especially since my achievements (and why they chose me as a potential Spectre) had consisted merely of 'sole survivor'.  How does this relate to a Spectre's ability to get the job done?

Because you don't take the guy who discovered it off the case and give it to a bunch of people who have no knowledge of it prior. You may be willingly to send them to help said person, but you do not just randomly assign them an assignment that you discovered and bought forward. That is an ***** slap to the face.

Each of your background is basically an paragon - renegrade type deal, or how you handle situations

Thresther maws - You are an Surivior, you know how to surivive the worse of the worse. It means your friggin hard to kill which means as long as your alive, you get the job done.

Slaves and pirates - You show excellent courage against superior forces.

Ruthless leadership - you aren't afraid to do dirty things to get the job done or send men to their deaths. You have one singular focus - the misson. That's it.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

V-time wrote...

1. In ME1 Shepard was essential for the plot since he got the message of the beacon and was a candidate for first human spectre. Kaidan for instance can´t replace him since he was never considered for the spectre position and the council wants to send a Spectre after a rogue one.

2. This could be any specte but since a human colony was attacked and due to Udina and the Humans in general pressuring for more power the council thought it was in their best interest to send Shepard after Saren (since they were reluctant in the first place they may have hoped for Shepard to fail so they could show humanity they aren´t ready yet). This is Shepards connection to the plot and the reason he is essential for the story. political reason as well as the vision of the prothean beacon.

1. But that still doesn't make him essential if we follow Smudboy's ruling. Any other character in his shoes could have filled the exact same role. Capable or not, Shepard is not the only one with combat experience. Let's assume Shepard had not been involved and kaidan had been made the potential spectre as a result. He would have touched the Prothean beacon and he would have pursued Saren. This is no different to how we are assuming that Miranda could have recruited your team and lead them through Omega IV. Is there any decision or action Shepard takes with regards to the plot in ME1which could not have been filled by any other character, whether its blowing up the facility on Virmire, etc?

Shepard's role in ME2 was truly no different from ME1. In ME1, he was chosen based on your background, though I consider this fairly weak. In ME2, he was chosen for his instrumental role in stopping the Reaper invasion.

2. This particular point I didn't buy when they explained it. The fact of the matter is that Saren was the Council's top agent. It would make more sense to send their second highest ranked Spectre(or perhaps a small group of Spectres) to take Saren down, not some rookie. Shepard still hadn't been observed in action by a fellow Spectre. I thought it would have made more sense if he had been given more missions by the Council, especially since my achievements (and why they chose me as a potential Spectre) had consisted merely of 'sole survivor'.  How does this relate to a Spectre's ability to get the job done?

1. I agree on the Kaidan's part, but this is very different if you assume Miranda taking Shepard's role in ME2. In this way they would have VERY different paths to the point of the beginning of the suicide mission. Miranda shouldn't have taken the path "Kaidan Shepard [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]" had in ME1, they would have very different paths and knowledge of the reapers. Having information about something is very different from facing it and stopping it, but most importantly they would have very different backgrounds and because of this you can't assume that just because they both have military abilities they would ended up with the same result.

2. I agree and I'm not sure about this but didn't the Council treated it like a test for Shepard abilites? If not, the
Turian Councilor says that Spectres aren't made, they are chosen and this way couldn't we say they treats Specters equally about their abilities? Just a theory.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 10 avril 2010 - 09:26 .

[mopotter]

wulf3n wrote...

Kalfear wrote...
LOL, you know times are tough when people call Oblivion high quality! YIKES!

i like oblivion 

Me too.  :happy:  I did like Morrowind a bit more, but Oblivion was fun. 

I mostly agree with the OP.  I enjoy ME2 a lot but I enjoy ME1 more.  ME1 gave me a greater feeling of achievement with the ending and the whole story.  I liked  the "need a bigger gun" Thorian and I liked that I could do everything in whatever order I wanted to.  I can only do this a little in ME2.  I do like ME2 but I'm hoping like others, that ME3 combines the best of both games. 

[Vanguard Alpha]

Indeed the RPG element of Mass Effect 2 fell short, for me it fell short to the point I no longer have a "connection" to either Liara or Williams and don't care if they, or the council/Ander's are in Mass Effect 3.

[smudboy]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
Change "Stop the Collectors" to "Stop the reapers" and it is the same thing. Yes it is. THIS IS ABOUT ME1. It's a sequel to ME1's plot. Cerberus got Shepard back, because what he did in ME1. ME1 events made even death by the Collectors not an obstacle (at least in the beginning of ME2 lol) to the continuation of Shepard's story.

I'm quite sure the plot is to "Stop the Collectors, (as in that organic race of slaves) from taking human colonies."  Not "Stop the Reapers, (that million year old AI machine race), from taking human colonies."  So no, you can't really do that.  Again, relationships between things of any type, their motivations, reasons; this is not what I'm arguing.

I'm arguing that the actions of Shepard, within the confines of ME2s plot, could've been done.  By anyone.  Let alone more efficiently, and sooner and with less cost to Cerberus.

Sure, Shepard's a great candidate for being the person to Fight the Collectors.  Shepard's got experience and skills.  However, none of these skills or experiences are shown to be relevant within ME2's plot, no matter what someone thinks or says about those skills (TIM, Miranda, Harbinger, etc.)  Anyone could've done what Shepard did in ME2.

Again, give me one thing Shepard did that no one else could've done in ME2, that was integral to ME2's plot.

And yet you are again leaving the reapers out of question, and you're ignoring the fact that Shepard himself would want to go after the Collectors as they are connected to reapers, and you've been just following his story. Again, you could say Bioware screwed up by killing him, making him get out of the game and the story could just follow up (psst: Bioware and the Illusive Man said it can't, lol) with you controlling another errr Shepard wannabe. But Bioware just slaped you in the face and you can't as Shepard can die in ME2 and you're not gonna able to take that save to ME3.

I'm well aware the Reapers are the masterminds behind the Collectors.  However, it makes no difference to ME2's plot.

Shepard IS Irreplaceable as you can't continue your story to the point of Shepard's death in ME2 and this way you can assume the reapers came somehow and obliterated all life of the galaxy. Like it or not, Shepard will be the one to stop the reapers, not Miranda or anyone else, they will fail.

This is not about stopping the Reapers.  This is about ME2's plot.

I AGREE with you that Shepard is not decisive to the continuation of ME2's story AFTER his death, but there are REASONS that made him get back. Cerberus found Shepard irreplaceable to stop the reapers and made him cheat death. It was a bad plot decision and your posts made me realize it, but there are REASONS why it happened, and that, you can't continue ignoring. Well actually you can I'm gonna assume you will.

Cerberus had reasons to bring Shepard back.  I am not disputing this.  I could dispute their reasons for their Lazarus Project are flawed, or hilarious, but I don't care 'cause that's not what I'm trying to explain.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

smudboy wrote...
Again, give me one thing Shepard did that no one else could've done in ME2, that was integral to ME2's plot.

This. www.youtube.com/watch



No one else would have surivived the beacon more than likely let alone even made sense of it.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 10 avril 2010 - 10:11 .

[smudboy]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...
You want an Reason: Because no alien race will give miranda or any other human another look with an Cerbersus logo asking for their help. That's why. Human first spectre, savor the Citadel, saved how many speices? commanded alot of respect.

Speculation.

replaceable and not important to the plot my butt. Try putting another person to replace Sheppard for the Quarian loyality mission, See how far your "Infulence" goes. Not very far in my opinon. Hell half the reason why the quarians even let you in on the trial is because You helped Tali on her Travels, she joined you to help you fight the herectic geth, and you are the first human who probably ever had an quarian's, as a race, respect.

I agree.  It would be difficult trying to convince Tali to join the mission if it weren't for Shepard.  However, Tali is not integral to the plot.

Krogan - Same thing.

Yes, it seems Wreav would've "shot any other alien out of the sky".  However, Grunt is not integral to the mission, nor is Mordin's loyalty.  (I guess one could argue the Normandy is a stealth ship, if one really wanted to get down there, but it's still irrelevant.)

Now- if you say that I am bringing ME1 things into this, This is flat-out told to you by the quarian admirals and Wrex themselves/himself, ergo - it's ME2 plot. Sheppard is not replacable. Period. He has too many connections, too many ties that would need to be rebuilt for a new character to come in. Garrus wouldn't trust anyone else. Tali wouldn't. Wrex wouldn't. I'm sure the council wouldn't as well as Anderson. Ontop of that - I doubt Kasumi would have joined you since she isn't a major fan of you, You wouldn't have joker- who is as loyal as hell to sheppard. And sheppard only.

Please tell me what ME2's plot is then, since I don't understand why you're listing all this.

You can not rip 1/3 of an book out - IE the middle and say the main character is unimportant/replacable. It's a game that is suppose to link ME1 and M3 together and at the very least, link ME1 and ME2 together. By not putting this into the main picture, you are missing the overall big picture.

But we can evaluate a single chapter, or scene, or series of events.  And see, that the actions done by Shepard, within ME2's plot (2/3), are easily replaceable by anyone else.

I do not state the "main picture", or "over arching plot", which is to "Stop the Reapers", doesn't exist.  I am merely stating, the actions that Shepard takes are not integral to ME2's plot.  To say that they are, because Shepard was in the previous chapter, is completely illogical.

ME2 is an subplot of the main plot sure, but it's not like it has strayed from the farm here as after-all, you just forced the reapers to give their lazy dark energy butts to destroy you. How is that NOT part of the overall general plot? How does sheppard not fit in? The Reapers killed him for an reason and TIM bought him back. To make matters worse, they were not able to complete their human reaper and sheppard, yet AGAIN wreaks their plans. Sheppard is the lynch pin that holds everything together, otherwise things just fall apart.... like when sheppard dies.

ME1 left us lots of interesting questions about the Reapers.  None of which are addressed in ME2.  Instead, we get their organic puppets that came out of nowhere, that have no relation or existence to ME1, considering the Reaper's view of organic life.  The continuation of a story is to continue a tale, to increase intrigue with exposition of it's pre-existing themes and characters, by providing new insight into their motives and desires.  Now, if Harbinger is just one rogue-mad Reaper, things make sense, and ME2 was broken AI gone nuts.  If not?  ME3 has some explaining to do on wtf the Collectors were trying to accomplish in building a human reaper, in the manner they did, while disregarding the build up from ME1.

Again, show me one action that is integral to the plot of ME2 that only Shepard could've done.

Sheppard Kills Sovereign, Stops the invasion of the Citadel from the reapers

Sheppards kill the Collectors - Agents of the Reapers who are making ANOTHER reaper. And after destroying them, makes the reapers all start heading for our lovely milky way.

Sheppard. Is. not. Replaceable.

1. That's ME1.  That is true.  Shepard is integral to that story.
2. That's ME2.  Please explain to me how Shepard is integral to ME2's plot, since you haven't told me yet.
3. Prove it (in ME2's.)

[smudboy]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

smudboy wrote...
Again, give me one thing Shepard did that no one else could've done in ME2, that was integral to ME2's plot.

This. www.youtube.com/watch



No one else would have surivived the beacon more than likely let alone even made sense of it.

This is true.  However, this is an N7 mission, and is not integral to ME2's plot.

[kraidy1117]

Guys just stop arguing with Smudboy, he never listens and when you prove hes wrong he continues. Just drop it, you won't win this argument. Smudboy just likes to be a troll.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

smudboy wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
Change "Stop the Collectors" to "Stop the reapers" and it is the same thing. Yes it is. THIS IS ABOUT ME1. It's a sequel to ME1's plot. Cerberus got Shepard back, because what he did in ME1. ME1 events made even death by the Collectors not an obstacle (at least in the beginning of ME2 lol) to the continuation of Shepard's story.

I'm quite sure the plot is to "Stop the Collectors, (as in that organic race of slaves) from taking human colonies."  Not "Stop the Reapers, (that million year old AI machine race), from taking human colonies."  So no, you can't really do that.  Again, relationships between things of any type, their motivations, reasons; this is not what I'm arguing.

I'm arguing that the actions of Shepard, within the confines of ME2s plot, could've been done.  By anyone.  Let alone more efficiently, and sooner and with less cost to Cerberus.

Sure, Shepard's a great candidate for being the person to Fight the Collectors.  Shepard's got experience and skills.  However, none of these skills or experiences are shown to be relevant within ME2's plot, no matter what someone thinks or says about those skills (TIM, Miranda, Harbinger, etc.)  Anyone could've done what Shepard did in ME2.

Again, give me one thing Shepard did that no one else could've done in ME2, that was integral to ME2's plot.

And yet you are again leaving the reapers out of question, and you're ignoring the fact that Shepard himself would want to go after the Collectors as they are connected to reapers, and you've been just following his story. Again, you could say Bioware screwed up by killing him, making him get out of the game and the story could just follow up (psst: Bioware and the Illusive Man said it can't, lol) with you controlling another errr Shepard wannabe. But Bioware just slaped you in the face and you can't as Shepard can die in ME2 and you're not gonna able to take that save to ME3.

I'm well aware the Reapers are the masterminds behind the Collectors.  However, it makes no difference to ME2's plot.

Shepard IS Irreplaceable as you can't continue your story to the point of Shepard's death in ME2 and this way you can assume the reapers came somehow and obliterated all life of the galaxy. Like it or not, Shepard will be the one to stop the reapers, not Miranda or anyone else, they will fail.

This is not about stopping the Reapers.  This is about ME2's plot.

I AGREE with you that Shepard is not decisive to the continuation of ME2's story AFTER his death, but there are REASONS that made him get back. Cerberus found Shepard irreplaceable to stop the reapers and made him cheat death. It was a bad plot decision and your posts made me realize it, but there are REASONS why it happened, and that, you can't continue ignoring. Well actually you can I'm gonna assume you will.

Cerberus had reasons to bring Shepard back.  I am not disputing this.  I could dispute their reasons for their Lazarus Project are flawed, or hilarious, but I don't care 'cause that's not what I'm trying to explain.

I CAN do that. Dude, you are seriously denying information from the game and what I'm saying. This is my last post discussing with you. Try to see the big picture just once, for god's sake. Saying that the reapers being the masterminds about the Collectors makes no difference about ME2's plot is just being stupid and you're just making fun of yourself.

ME2's plot is basically stop the Reapers too. "Stop the Collectors, (as in that organic race of slaves) from taking
human colonies" is basically "Stop the reapers" like "Stop Saren and fing the Counduit" was to ME1. You're missing the whole point of the story denying this and showing lack of interpretation skills. Everything in ME1 and 2 plots remain about the fight on the reapers. You can't deny that. Do you want me to write here the dialogs on the game here so it makes it clear for you?

Before the whole suicide mission got started, Shepard's mission (I know he was searching geth, but I'm talking about it in a bigger scale) and why Cerberus got him back, was to stop the reapers. I DARE to say that Cerberus wouldn't get Shepard to bother about the Collectors if they weren't related to the reapers. TIM had suspitions about it, that's why he put Shepard to retrieve information on Freedom's Progress and everything about the suicide mission started.

You can't say anyone could do what Shepard's did on ME2 LOL. Hahaha, it's funny you argue so much that you're writing stuff like that. You're not the damn writer of the game, you didn't participate on ME2's scripting, or write something offical about. If you like so much to develop that idea, write a fanfic, I might read. However, you can't deny he was the best for that mission, wasting a bazillion credits or not. Think about like Shepard never died (which I've telling you 2 posts ago), who better than him to investigate the Collectors? That's what TIM thought, but he wasted money, for the best or worst, like hell to put him on that.

I quite have agreed with you about the Lazarus Project, I'm not gonna discuss it. The thing is: TIM decided to do it. If you don't agree and wanna show to him why this is a waste of time and credits (lol) argue with Mac Walters and Drew Karpyshyn, not with me.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...

1. Because you don't take the guy who discovered it off the case and give it to a bunch of people who have no knowledge of it prior. You may be willingly to send them to help said person, but you do not just randomly assign them an assignment that you discovered and bought forward. That is an ***** slap to the face.

2. Each of your background is basically an paragon - renegrade type deal, or how you handle situations

Thresther maws - You are an Surivior, you know how to surivive the worse of the worse. It means your friggin hard to kill which means as long as your alive, you get the job done.

Slaves and pirates - You show excellent courage against superior forces.

Ruthless leadership - you aren't afraid to do dirty things to get the job done or send men to their deaths. You have one singular focus - the misson. That's it. 

1. But every situation involving criminal activity doesn't work like that. The person who discovered it is not going to be the person who necessarily finishes the investigation, especially if they are under qualfied. I could see the Council sending another Spectre to aid Shepard as you said. But between the possibilities of sending a rookie Spectre or a more experienced group of Spectres (who may have prior affiliation with Saren as Nihlus did)? I think the latter is far more likely. Nothing so overwhelming happened that another group of Spectres could not have been filled in.

2. Hmm, perhaps I should have been clearer. It's not that I don't think your 'background' accomplishments had no value. But when we consider Shepard's initial 'call'  to action, I found ME2's motivations more logical between the two. Considering how instrumental Shepard's role in the destruction of Sovereign was and the fact that he's had previous contact with the Reapers, it made sense that Cerberus would want his expertise/abilities. In comparison while they are important, Shepard's background options in ME1 struck me as 'generic soldier # 5,012'. They were useful, but didn't strike me entirely as unique.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 11 avril 2010 - 12:13 .

[BaladasDemnevanni]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

1. I agree on the Kaidan's part, but this is very different if you assume Miranda taking Shepard's role in ME2. In this way they would have VERY different paths to the point of the beginning of the suicide mission. Miranda shouldn't have taken the path "Kaidan Shepard ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png" had in ME1, they would have very different paths and knowledge of the reapers. Having information about something is very different from facing it and stopping it, but most importantly they would have very different backgrounds and because of this you can't assume that just because they both have military abilities they would ended up with the same result.

2. I agree and I'm not sure about this but didn't the Council treated it like a test for Shepard abilites? If not, the
Turian Councilor says that Spectres aren't made, they are chosen and this way couldn't we say they treats Specters equally about their abilities? Just a theory.

1. Haha that's true. I'm not denying the details would have been different (Kaidan is not Miranda is not Samara, etc). I'm just saying that the general plot out-line as Smudboy seems to be referencing it is still possible.

2. This is possible and it's exactly why I hate over-examining plot lines. You will find a plot hole if you search far enough. This didn't bother me in ME1 either, but when I see people criticize ME2 this in-depth, I'm forced to produce counter-arguments which could be applied to ME1.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 11 avril 2010 - 12:14 .

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

[quote]BaladasDemnevanni wrote...
1. But every situation involving criminal activity doesn't work like that. The person who discovered it is not going to be the person who necessarily finishes the investigation, especially if they are under qualfied. I could see the Council sending another Spectre to aid Shepard as you said. But between the possibilities of sending a rookie Spectre or a more experienced group of Spectres (who may have prior affiliation with Saren as Nihlus did)? I think the latter is far more likely. Nothing so overwhelming happened that another group of Spectres could not have been filled in.
[/quote]
Except that more than likely, other spectres might be implicated with Saren..... so really, it was just sheppard left to do it. Hell of an road test for first human spectre though. When you have possible corruption, you leave it very very modular. Very few know about the investigation and only top level officals and the select few know about it. Including other spectres that have ties to Saren is bad leadership and is in general - a bad idea.


[quote]
2. Hmm, perhaps I should have been clearer. It's not that I don't think your 'background' accomplishments had no value. But when we consider Shepard's initial 'call'  to action, I found ME2's motivations more logical between the two. Considering how instrumental Shepard's role in the destruction of Sovereign was and the fact that he's had previous contact with the Reapers, it made sense that Cerberus would want his expertise/abilities. In comparison while they are important, Shepard's background options in ME1 struck me as 'generic soldier # 5,012'. They were useful, but didn't strike me entirely as unique.
[/quote]
Well to be honest, We're assuming major conflicts like space pirates/slavers, thresher maw attacks and wars don't happen. They just don't happen every day of the week. So techinacally... the only generic is the earth-born, colony-born, spacer. The other issues are more individual since how many people surivive thresher maw attacks on foot for example. Or the act of holding off the pirates/slavers on your own while your squad retreated is an act of bravery. While Ruthless Commander I believe it is called, means that you put the mission above everything else, you get the job done. Period. It's more of a what you are bringing to the table, surivialability, courage to stand against many while looking out for your squad, or give up everything for the mission no matter the odds.

As I Am sure the other candiates for spectre status was just as good, I doubt any had "Surivive thresher maw attacked, or held off an whole crapload of pirates/slavers on my own or I lost my entire team, but i did get the mission done.



[/quote]

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 11 avril 2010 - 12:22 .