[quote]smudboy wrote...
No, the Prothean DNA was right there on Horizon.
My reaction to ME2 is definitely "wtf", not "eureka."
[/quote]
Meant in the context of that nobody thought to do it until now.
[quote]
That does not explain why they were making a human Reaper. Speculate all you want.
[/quote]
Because if you listen to harbringer, when he talks about all the other races... he lists why they are unusable as reapers. The audio clips are in the game, I used gibb audio editor to turn them into .oggs and listened to them.
[quote]
Why? After the Vanguard comes everything else. Why does it need another vanguard? Don't the super intelligent million year old fleet of AI have a plan B? Some other large mass relay port into the known galaxy? No?
Oh, but they got this old race of
organic creatures they made
into slaves. Great. That makes
plenty of sense.
[/quote]
Cause after this sweep they will go back to re-setting everything up as it orginal was? I'm not an reaper, I don't know why, that's speculation. My guess is that they have growned too arrogant.
[quote]
I have no idea what an eco-skeleton is.
Either way, the reason why it's so big, or why it's shaped like a human is farcical.
[/quote]
Not my problem if you see it that way.
Probably used the wrong terminalogy, hell let's just call it an skeleton and be done with it. Skeletons can't do ****. And does the reapers really look like the type to build small unless they have to?
[quote]
How do you know the Collectors were the Reaper's plan B? That's ridiculous. Their main plan was to use the Citadel to port into the known galaxy, and then win.
[/quote]
Cause they soon appeared after sheppard kicked Soverign's ***, and slaughtered the old normandy.
Well their main plan certainly didn't work now did it?
Got any other explanation? Cause when you wipe out the collectors it does seem like harbringer is now coming after you right? It means that you just wreaked their plan... again. Whatever it was, we just disrupted the reapers plans. We probably won't know what it is until ME3.
[quote]
The fact that ME2 didn't explain why the Collectors weren't involved in the battle of the Citadel is jarring. I'm not saying there can't be an excuse or line of reasoning/scenarios, but we get no explanation as to why a 50k year old race of slaves with superior technology specifically built by the Reapers was doing nothing, when during the first game Sovereign recruited an existing force of Geth. Now that makes sense, because they dislike organics, and that was one of
the themes of ME1
[/quote]
Cause Soverign hates organics idk? Collectors don't have an military arm, they got one ship! you gonna invade the citadel with one ship and a reaper? There is plenty of tactical reasons why the collectors are held back. Many of which involve not sending all your eggs in one basket. The reapers are far from dumb. The collectors could be just used primarily as slaves to gather humans/whoever for the next reaper to be built.
Besides, using the collectors like that would have been an waste of man- eh collector power.
[quote]
. ME2 throws this all away and doesn't tell us wtf happened to this plan in favor of some ridiculously unknown inefficient one.
[/quote]
Except that we find out the geth that were used in ME1 are only an small fraction of the total population of the geth. Personally I think you are judging an book before it's finished. We are not suppose to know every gritty detail of the reaper's plan. that is plainly ovious to leave the fans guessing.
[quote]
So you're pointing fingers not at the Big Bad Guy, but his minions? That's ridiculous.
Let's play that game in ME2. It wasn't Harbinger's fault for being
unable to stop Shepard from attacking the Collectors successfully, it
was clearly his mindless slaves.
[/quote]
Yes, cause an 3km long ship is going to be able to re-activate the keepers on his own by manuallying typing out the commands, O WAIT, his "arm" is how big? .5 km? Yeah, sorry.
No I am not pointing fingers at the big guy cause soverign's job was to secure the citadel and activate the relay, Saren's job was to activate the keepers. He failed by shooting himself in the head. Sure Soverign... husked him, but can husks even use computers assuming he managed to kill sheppard and his two squadies?
As for the collectors, yeah that's harbringers fault.
[quote]
Why would Reapers not usher in the Master Plan that's been going on for millions of years? That's even more ridiculous speculation. Keep it up. I might have to use my brain here.
[/quote]
At least I enjoyed ME2, you clearly didn't. Not my problem. And master plan? If i recall, their "master" plan was as you put it. was to bumrush the citadel, activate the relay, 100s of reapers zoom into the citadel and murder everything. O wait, keepers didn't work, ah damn. their master plan didn't work now didn't it? They now have to come up with something different.
It's not ridculous if it's an possiblity.
[quote][quote]
Well it certainly poses a problem when you enter an collector ship and see enough space to fit how many billions of humans? Either way that was an worse case scenario of an speculation I might add, or are we allowing speculation as clues now?
[/quote]
I think EDI estimated millions. Billions is a bit too unbelievable.
No it was a stupid remark. How would anyone know that by looking at the ceiling? "Oh they must be going after earth?" Yes, one lone ship, no matter how reasonably big and powerful, slowly collecting colonies on the edge of the Terminus system will slowly make their way over the decades to collect severeal million colonies, making pit stops, and eventually hit the human home world, all by themselves, with no opposition from anyone?
No. That is stupid.
[/quote]
I already told you that it was an worst case scenario that could happen, but not given the details of HOW. Gee this ship is able to contain millions of humans, seriously, the comment was made for an worse case scenario and give you an idea of just how friggin big the ship was, nothing more. Your reading into that comment way too much.
[quote][quote]
My thoughts are that the reapers were going to move in eventually but were going to wait till the human reaper was an little bit more done. Earth would have been ****ed after 20 reapers showed up and wiped out any defense, then little old collector ship comes in and claims the billions of humans.
[/quote]
Speculation.
[/quote]
At least I gave an viable solution to your problem of "a lone collector ship visits earth". Because you are not using your brain, your not even thinking about how it could be done. Ain't my problem though.
[quote][quote]
and last part is speculation. Sadly, I highly doubt the council/alliance would have caught on in time to do anything. Unless it truely threatens the galaxy... O wait... this does, but they are shoving things under the rug and can't face facts. Either way, the council is more like the UN which means by the time anything gets done, they are ****ed.
[/quote]
Speculation.
[/quote]
your point? you responded with speculation and I responded with speculaton.
[quote][quote]
I don't see it that way. Why should you wait to build your team? Why?
[/quote]
Because we don't know their role or utility?
[/quote]
You do have their dossiers don't you?
[quote][quote]
you already know your going to need them,
[/quote]
Oh did you read the script beforehand too?
[/quote]
O gee, no i didn't, but ya know, for that sucide mission that goes somewhere I don't know where I'm headed... I MAY want to have everyone I could possibly need for it. Nah, your right, I don't.
[quote]
No, that's
exactly how it works.
If you're going to make a prime rib steak dinner, you're going to the supermarket, not the shoe store.
Are you going to fight a land war in Asia, in
space?
[/quote]
No, it doesn't. God, you would be so screwed with your line of thinking. Your being provided with dossiers of people you will probably need that other people have thought up. Gee... maybe you should listen to them?
and According to ME2 clues... yes.
[quote][quote]
why not grab all of them while your out and then pick
and choose who you need?
[/quote]
Why pick up useless things if you already know what you need? You're answering your own question.
[/quote]
Because I prefer an new pair of shoes as well as prime rib dinner? While your at it, I would like a kevlar vest, some M-4's, 10 crates of amunition, raincoat, an OMNI tool upgade, an cloak, an hunting knife, 6 glocks. An singularity gun, A new biotic upgrade, O and just for fun, this hat.
at least I don't have to worry about anyone interrupting my streak dinner.
[quote][quote]
Becuase when you need Tali, o wait, she got tried for treason and is exiled and is somewhere else in the galaxy, sorry. O wait, you need an trained thief to sneak in? O sorry, she's an bit busy during the heist, I am sure the collectors will wait.
[/quote]
What? No one knows why you need anyone, save Mordin.
[/quote]
You really should clump groups together so you can realize that perhaps I put things in an single paragraph because they relate to one another? I was refering to the fact that when you do go face omega IV relay, O wait, you probably WONT be able to make back. You know those collectors, they always let you back to grab your OMNI tool just so they can have an fair fight.
[quote]
Apparently preparing for the worst case scenario involves recruiting soldiers for a land war in Asia,
in space.
[/quote]
station. Or a battle on an planet... or hallowed out asteriod. Need I countinue? Reason why it's called being prepared for every occassion. The fact that you don't think you need troops when in prior game as well this game requires you to battle how many dozens of merc's? Gee... I might need troops to invade that ship or station. O wait, I forgot to recruit them. Just me and mordin.
[quote][quote]
Your goal is to stop the collectors. We stopped them did we not? You tactical pulsed or blew them into an black hole. Can't get any better result then that.
[/quote]
They were stopped because the illogical plot demanded it.
[/quote]
illogical plot? Made sense to me. But then again, I don't PICK apart the entire story for plotholes and tend to sit there and ENJOY my game. If you don't like it, don't buy ME3, simple.
[quote][quote]
Gee, I don't know, I could speculate that it's more than likely an space station surronded by an mass field then a planet considering the galactic core is full of super massive black holes and nasty things. But there is also the possiblity of an mass effect field that is big enough to encompress the surronding area of an planet.
[/quote]
Thank you Mr. Universe. I'm glad you could induce the spatial size of a planet in relation to "massive black holes" and deduced that "nasty things" could only exist there in a certain XYZ scope. The rest of us mere mortals need it spelled out or shown.
[/quote]
I will be a wind that sweeps all before me... like an wind. A great biotic wind. - O wait, wrong line.
More serious note -
Why, do you want me to list all the nasty things in the galactic center? I can if you want, I decided that super massive blackholes was the big thing there considering they showed it in game. Guessing is half the fun you know... or you not an puzzle person? I enjoy puzzles and games, puts my reaction time and works my brain at work at the same time. A little speculating never hurts is all I am saying.
I am sorry, but there was plenty of plot for me to get a grip on what was going and some reasonings of why.
Some of which had to speculate on, others is an bit more concrete. Some require some base knowledge which they do give you, like the galactic center being full of blackholes and stuff. Others, you going to have do some thinking on.
[quote][quote]
I am sorry, but that is so blanantly ovious. You did not like how infomation was handled in ME2, I am sorry, but it was easy enough for me to speculate on what I was facing to be reasonably sure that I was correct means that it was an failure on your part, not mine to predict what might happen.
[/quote]
It was easy enough for you to speculate?
[/quote]
Yes. Simply knowing how blackholes operate is enough to speculate that reapers may have developed technology to counter it... which is said 10 seconds after you seeing an dot appear on the center of the galaxy. Which apparently they have. there was more than enough material to make you speculate to the correct conclusion which is revealed later.
[quote]
Wow. The day a story requires a player to speculate the point of the details of the plot, and is considered good, is the day I burn all my books.
[/quote]
To quote princess bride:
Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it
means.
===
This is the second chapter of an story. Not everything is goign to be laid out bare for you. There is going to be some loose ends. There is going to be "wtf is going on moments." cause it links up in ME3 for the conclusion. You are trying to judge the middle chapter of the book based on the fact that it should have it's own conclusion and everything is wrapped up pretty. It's not because it's suppose to be left hanging.
Also what is your definition of speculation? Do you speculate who the murderer is in an game of werewolf? Or do you speculate in mystery novels of who the murderer is before the conclusion? I do.
I'm also guessing you don't read mystery books that are an series then. Also - can I have your books? I hate books that are burned. Such an waste. Or at least donate them to an middle school libaray.
[quote]
Oh so you knew we were fighting a land war in Asia, in space? Wow. I wonder how you could've guessed that.
Intel in any form is something telling or showing us that what is there, is there. Not some character going "I think it's going to be x." Either way, this intel should have been gotten before the recruitment stage, so we know what to prepare for, EVEN IF the intel is false/wrong. It gives the viewer a sense of understanding of why the plot is going the way it is, why we're doing this series of actions, why we believe this to be the best most efficient, logical course.
[/quote]
No, but I was prepared for the occurence. To be honest when I entered the sucide mission, I was expecting 3/4 of my team to die just because of the way the story was building up, kindof dissapointed with it. Wished the sucide mission actually forced you to kill off characters instead of, loyality and stuff. I like the Virmire, it provided you with choices, drastic choices that were missing from ME2. Having 2-3 of those choices in the last mission... people would have been like OMG OMG who do I choose?
Kindof wish there was some false intell in there as well. Might have been good, but the way they did everything was
everything beyond the omega IV relay. Another cool thing they could have done was have it send you to the galactic core, which acts another relay point that sends out on the corner edge of the galaxy. That would be sweet plot twist.
[quote]
Please explain or list the "plenty of information" that was gathered. I seem to have missed it.
No, lack of information makes it an unknown. You can't label something "suicide" if you don't know what is there.
If we know we're up against a fleet of Reapers, that is a suicide
mission.
If we don't know what we're up against, we can't label
it
anything.
[/quote]
1) Collectors, basically unknown race, thought to be an myth since they have been seen so rare. <= unknown enemy that cooked your ass.
2)They go beyond the OMEGA IV relay, any ship that has followed has not returned. <=== instant sucide mission.
3)They are associated with the reapers <=== highly dangerous
4) and are apparently in the galactic core surronded by blackholes, and other nasty things. <=== highly dangerous
You discounting the infomation given to you, which is stupid and crazy. TIM gives it to you. . Two highly dangerous infomation tidbits, another dangerous tidbit about ships not returning and an unknown enemy. IF the above reasons don't classify it enough to be an suicide mission
then I don't know what your smoking or
thinking Your assuming you have no infomation when you have plenty of infomation given to you right off the start.
[quote]
The Suicide Mission was labeled as such only because anyone going into the relay doesn't return. That's all. We learn the Omega-4 relay points to the galactic core, and requires a certain piece of technology for it to work properly, or else drift from the relay ports ships into a blackhole/star. After we learn that, you may as well call it the "wtf is going on, still?" mission.
[/quote]
It's called beyond that point is the collector base/world that you have to destroy. Perhaps you trying to get something complex when it's simple?
[quote]
Except we know it's a room, of a building With people in it. And they might have guns, too. We can measure the size of the room from
orbit or get blueprints of the layout of the building. We can ask around to see if there are any merc activity in there.
With the Omega-4 relay, all we know it's in the galactic core, and we might encounter the Collector Cruiser ship.
[/quote]
Not too different from an room full of mercs then. After all you know the galactic core has blackholes in it etc, you need reaper IFF to get thru the relay, that's infomation you get from doing recon like you suggested with my analogy of the mercs.
[quote]
How does he make comments in regards to the mineral scanner or fuel?
[/quote]
He doesn't, it's an example of an upgrade. I am talking to you on his response of he says your ready or not.
[quote]
How does Jacob know these people are "loyal"? Did he go around talking to everyone? Did he talk to Kelly? Is that even Kelly's job? What does having professionals solving their personal problems suddenly make them "more bulletproof"? Or how a fireteam leader may/may not get a tech expert hit by a rocket? Or how Grunt is more buff than most people and should "hold the line"? Nevermind how Jacob has 0 idea wtf these questions mean because he has no clue what's going to happen past the relay.
[/quote]
The ship crew is only an few dozen at most, word goes around fast. Perhaps because they aren't worried about anything but the mission. Actually Tech expert is based on loyality and the fire tream's leadership qualities. Grunt is the toughest member there becuase he's an krogran with multiple redudent organs etc etc. He's the hardest one to kill. Jacob has zero idea past omega IV, he is jsut giving you his opinon. Don't ask me what, cause I don't know, don't care. More than likely, speculation on his part.
[quote]
The Loyalty is just a game play mechanic, and has nothing to do with trust (save maybe Tali's mission.) Either way, professional soldiers aren't going to suddenly get each other killed because they have a warm fuzzy feeling for Shepard. Apparently it makes Garrus or Jacob bulletproof. Miranda's just naturally bulletproof. Woo! Relationships stop bullets. Or was that spandex? Either way,
amazing.
[/quote]
Miranda is an unexplainable occurence and i really wish it was easier to kill her so i dont have to do it in such an pain in the *** way to do it. Loyality is not na warm fuzzy feeling, its trust and the fact their minds are purely focused on the mission, that is it.
[quote]
No, I'm quite sure the TIM didn't try. Nice try.
[/quote]
Actually yes, He sends people to an reaper knowing fully well the likeihood of the reaper might indocuate them but considered it an acceptable risk. He is an renegrade sheppard in the way that he wants results, and is not afraid to send people to gain infomation. I would not be surprised if he tried sending some probes though the omega IV relay before then.
[quote]
Days to get from one mass relay to another? Wow. I seem to be able to teleport all over the known galaxy in a matter of seconds. "TIM give me the damn spy satellites. I'll drop them off for you."
[/quote]
That is just retarded... At the very least it takes an few hours to get there.. O wait, the collector ship got everyone and left 30 minutes before you arrived, o poor boy. Also, you sure those probes are meant for those use? hmm? looks like they are mineral scanners/markers to me.
[quote]
The Collector ship attack on horizon worked because it was traveling at the speed of plot.
[/quote]
See this is why I really really wish Mass effect had time stamps like halo series. Makes things so much simpler in terms of speed/distance traveled. To think that there is almost no travel time when TIM informs and the mission occuring is absurd at most.
[quote]
Everything you posted here has been speculation, I think.
[/quote]
At least my speculations have basis in reality and could actually occur other than faster than light just cause the game lets me.
[quote]
I'd be surprised if Alliance would help out. Actually that'd be pretty good! They got off their ass. That would at least mean we can go back and place a new satellite. Might tell us that something happened to that satellite. No signal is not as important as a signal, but it's still a good notification.
[/quote]
Yes meanwhile New Canton gets raided.
[quote]
It's called game play. Completionists tend to like doing that, going everywhere, doing everything. Some of them even like to scan planets. I know, its' scary. Now they could drop off satellites everywhere. God, they'd want to light up the CIC map like a Christmas tree.
[/quote]
Crowded as is. Etiher way that is gameplay out of the realm of ME2, and is speculation.
[quote]
Yes, because when we do port over to the Collector ship to attack it, I'm sure we'll casually dock with it so we can have a land war in Asia with our badass team of 12. Or maybe they'll just shoot us out of the sky because we didn't think we'd fight them in space, in our spaceship. Hmm.
[/quote]
What team of 12? you didn't recruit them. You have Jacob and Miranda and Mordin. Also, more than likely, your not upgraded ship will duke it out with the collector ship and die.
[quote]
No I didn't agree. I wrote there were no clues. Clues are not speculation. Clues are actual things, like pieces of evidence that help solve a problem.
I'm all for mystery. My favorite genre is detective fiction. ME is not a detective story. Now that's not to say it can't have mystery, but when we don't even know the motivations of our antagonist,
[/quote]
I don't know if it was me, I was be wanting to get revenge on the collectors for frying my ***. Plus defending human colonies that are getting taken away etc. Enough Motiviation for me.
[quote]
when we don't know the goal of the plot, we have serious problems with the narrative.
[/quote]
Goal of the plot is to stop the collectors. You enter the base and you kill the giant energy reading in the center of the base and use the power core to either send tactical pulse or overload and blow it up. Heck the general plot is to throw the monkey wrench in whatever plan that is reapers. Since they pretty much ordered the collectors to kill you, there is motive and goal.
[quote]
The whole plot is up in the air. This is literally a story about space
aliens capturing humans for no explainable reason, and it is our job to stop them, but we know nothing about them, and what we discover doesn't assist us in stopping them, which is the
whole point of the story.
[/quote]
Actually it's quite clear why they are capturing humans, they are turning them into an human reaper. Um, we do stop them? Reaper IFF? Finding out where the Omega IV relay goes to? Remember blowing up that base or tactical plusing it? You killing the human reaper? You kindof did stop them. They are dead and thus can not kidnap more humans to turn into genetic paste. I want to say the dead can not return, but that be an lie since... sheppard did return from the dead.
[quote]
We go from point to point in the story, and we go "wtf was that all about? Why did that happen? Why didn't we do x instead of y? Why didn't the narrative tell us what's going on, or why the main opposing force are doing this? When are we going to find out what our goal is? Why do we need so many people?"
[/quote]
I admit, I wish there was more options in terms of doing things, that was extremely lacking. There was like 5 diferent ways to kill Wrex in ME1 for example. most of the time you had four options for almost every convostational response.
[quote]
Clarity is the #1 quality in any good story of any genre or style. For a sci-fi space opera, you have to imagine your audience are 6 year olds, because they need to understand the motives and behaviors of a completely alien universe. It needs to be explained, clearly, preferably with details, why things are happening the way they are, especially when it doesn't make sense. If not, then it has to be labeled a mystery by the characters involved, or else it becomes nonsense, and the suspension of disbelief is completely gone.
[/quote]
I totally agree. Perhaps I'm an simpleton when it comes to plot or something, but the story was concise and clear to me. A little dry, but clear. I used what the story gave to me and it formulated an decent plot, not stellar, but still good. A plot hole here and there, but most stories has plothole or two.
Dear god, it took me almost 2 1/2 hours to write out this reply.
Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 12 avril 2010 - 02:41 .
Retour en haut
