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As an RPG, Mass Effect 2 is kind of disappointing. I hope ME3 doesn't diappoint as well.


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#376
BaladasDemnevanni

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Nightwriter wrote...

Oh, how I love it when we all start to argue pointlessly about what "fact" means.

Essentially we're all trying to impose our subjective opinions on what the definition of objective is. Isn't that magical?

"Prove your proof is provable!"


In the end, isn't all this bickering pointless, one way or another? We're not providing constructive criticism, just flaming each other. I'm personally just curious to see how people respond. Image IPB

Edit: But just to be constructive, there are certain objective statements we can pull out. Like it or not, it is 'true' that Bioware has said a dead Shepard cannot be imported. It is also true they are the ones developing ME3. Whether that decides how things play out is still in dispute.

Modifié par BaladasDemnevanni, 12 avril 2010 - 11:58 .


#377
Nightwriter

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BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

In the end, isn't all this bickering pointless, one way or another? We're not providing constructive criticism, just flaming each other. I'm personally just curious to see how people respond. Image IPB

Edit: But just to be constructive, there are certain objective statements we can pull out. Like it or not, it is 'true' that Bioware has said a dead Shepard cannot be imported. It is also true they are the ones developing ME3. Whether that decides how things play out is still in dispute.


When it comes to proof, it doesn't get much better than Bioware's personal say so. If they say you can't import a dead Shepard into ME3, I'm inclined to think you can't import a dead Shepard into ME3.

But again, that's my opinion. :P

Modifié par Nightwriter, 12 avril 2010 - 12:11 .


#378
Andrew_Waltfeld

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Dudeman315 wrote...

@Andrew
1) Your arguments lose validity if you have to hack the files off the disk that are inacessable in-game to prove your point.  Remember this also an Xbox game.

2) Please stop using dlc that has a cost beyond the game price to justify things. If you really like dlc thief chick that is ok, but she should not be considered when talking about the plot of ME2, since she never existed for a large portion of the player base when they played it the first time.

Thank you




It's not an hack. It's unpacking data files that are clearly in my programs folder already. I am not the only one who have discussed them and only viewed after someone else mentioned them on the forums. If you look at the reaper techno video on this forum board, there is examples of this audio that go along these lines.  It is not my fault you have an 360.

"Asari... not considered because of their relience on other speices."
"Turians, considered too primitive." etc etc.

Smudboy, my final response this is -

I am sorry that you did not get an climatic clash with the reapers, but ME2 was far from saying we're facing reapers, in fact, if you want to count disrupting the military might of the reapers killing an human reaper is kindof doing it is it not?

Secondly, I have stated. This is an Sequel, an MIDDLE CHAPTER of an trilogy. An side adventure about agents of the enemy doing X, Y, and Z. We have to stop them. We assemble an team we think we will need when we go on said sucide mission. The fact that you hate the word speculation is not my problem nor my concern. The fact that you think everyone is an bunch of 6 year olds that can't think for themselves and connect plainly ovious dots... is not my concern. It is not my problem if you don't speculate, it is also not my problem if you think specuating is bad for an story. I like using my brain and going "ah ha! I think I know what it is" and later finding out I was only half-right.

You would have Miranda, Jacob and mordin with you on your suicide mission and that's it with your clear line of logic. No thousands upon thousands of probes in space, no trying to hit the collectors outside their base. Have fun with your land war in asia with your four squad members raiding an collector ship/base/homeworld/whatever.  Cause when you need shoes or prime rib or any thing else, I am sure the collectors are going to let you leave to go back to get your pair of shoes and prime rib dinner. That is absurd and stupid in the context of the plot.

On that note -
I do not mind having 12 pairs of shoes as long as they do their job I intend them to do. Actually, on second thought, no they wouldn't be shoes, they would be hacking tools, cloaks, an variety of guns and biotic implants if you want to be equivlant about it because I ALREADY have an decent pair of shoes and I wanted an prime rib dinner as well and I migiht NEED those things on my sucide mission.

I am sorry that you do not like the fact that sheppard is pretty much passive in this chapter, I would have liked if they had certain things added and changed some of the background stories of the characters, but I am not the game creators and I can not go and re-write an part of the story. This is how the chapter was written, you can either like it, or you don't. If you don't like it, you may continue sproutings things about how the characters aren't important to the story when the entire story is written about this ONE main character going off and doing these things. Of course other people are going to be able to do this sucide mission except for fact that nobody believes in the collectors or the reapers, so I am sure other people are going to be lining up for it.


That is all I have to say... sorry to be blunt Dudeman.

and  Smug,  I am not going to listen and argue with another turian councilor  becuase he refuses to see things in plain sight and actually puts forth the effort/brain power to connect an few dots and make an few leaps and bounds. It's not unhealthy and it's fun to do especially when you later find out you were correct.

#379
smudboy

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Andrew_Waltfeld wrote...
It's not an hack. It's unpacking data files that are clearly in my programs folder already. I am not the only one who have discussed them and only viewed after someone else mentioned them on the forums. If you look at the reaper techno video on this forum board, there is examples of this audio that go along these lines.  It is not my fault you have an 360.

"Asari... not considered because of their relience on other speices."
"Turians, considered too primitive." etc etc.

I don't recall hearing it.  If it's randomized, possible dialog from the antgaonist, it's a horrible way to tell a story.  Let alone all of it being stupid one liners that mean virtually nothing.

Smudboy, my final response this is -

I am sorry that you did not get an climatic clash with the reapers, but ME2 was far from saying we're facing reapers, in fact, if you want to count disrupting the military might of the reapers killing an human reaper is kindof doing it is it not?

Dude, I just want whatever's going on to make sense.

Secondly, I have stated. This is an Sequel, an MIDDLE CHAPTER of an trilogy. An side adventure about agents of the

The only thing that this has to do with the plot from ME1 is the protagonist is the same.

enemy doing X, Y, and Z. We have to stop them. We assemble an team we think we will need when we go on said sucide mission. The fact that you hate the word speculation is not my problem nor my concern. The fact that you think everyone is an bunch of 6 year olds that can't think for themselves and connect plainly ovious dots... is not my concern. It is not my problem if you don't speculate, it is also not my problem if you think specuating is bad for an story. I like using my brain and going "ah ha! I think I know what it is" and later finding out I was only half-right.

You do not assemble a team you think you need, you assemble a team TIM tells you to.  In ME1, you find Garrus: you don't have to bring him along.

I think the player should be treated like 6 year olds for this kind of story, since there are no dots to connect.

Also, you're not supposed to have the viewer speculate.  It's not their story, it's the writer's; they have to tell us what's going on in an alien world with an undefined goal.  It has to be clear.  It helps if you know the motives of the antagonist, clearly.  It also helps if the main characters care about what's going on, and know and understand what's going on.  Because if they don't even know what's going on, or understand, then why should I?  The more reasons for explanation for things going on, the more the characters would have reason to care, and thus, so would I.  Which makes the story not only more believable, but also more interesting.

I still don't know why they were building a human Reaper.  I know that the process is bad, because it involves human life.  I also don't know what happened to the plot of ME1, which is why I can't see how this is a sequel to it.

I also like using my brain: but to deduce, not induce.

You would have Miranda, Jacob and mordin with you on your suicide mission and that's it with your clear line of logic. No thousands upon thousands of probes in space, no trying to hit the collectors outside their base. Have fun with your land war in asia with your four squad members raiding an collector ship/base/homeworld/whatever.  Cause when you need shoes or prime rib or any thing else, I am sure the collectors are going to let you leave to go back to get your pair of shoes and prime rib dinner. That is absurd and stupid in the context of the plot.

I'm having a bit of a problem understanding you with all these analogies you just summarized.  What you described is essentially the plot of ME2: add everyone else to Miranda, Jacob and Mordin, only don't have any satellites from my scenario of intel gathering, don't attack the Collector ship when its' disabled, and deduce that because we get characters there's going to be a land war in Asia.  Congrats!  It is absurd and stupid, because that is the plot of ME2.

On that note -
I do not mind having 12 pairs of shoes as long as they do their job I intend them to do. Actually, on second thought, no

1) You don't know what their job will be.
2) You have little control over that job.

they wouldn't be shoes, they would be hacking tools, cloaks, an variety of guns and biotic implants if you want to be equivlant about it because I ALREADY have an decent pair of shoes and I wanted an prime rib dinner as well and I migiht NEED those things on my sucide mission.

Yes but you don't even know you're going to be eating a prime rib dinner, because you've just collected 12 pairs of shoes.

I am sorry that you do not like the fact that sheppard is pretty much passive in this chapter, I would have liked if they had certain things added and changed some of the background stories of the characters, but I am not the game creators and I can not go and re-write an part of the story. This is how the chapter was written, you can either like it, or you don't. If you don't like it, you may continue sproutings things about how the characters aren't important to the story when the entire story is written about this ONE main character going off and doing these things. Of course other people are going to be able to do this sucide mission except for fact that nobody believes in the collectors or the reapers, so I am sure other people are going to be lining up for it.

I didn't bring up that Shepard is an active/passive character, nor is it my immediate concern.  I just want whatever was going on to make sense, or at least have the characters be believable, by going "gee, it's a good thing we scouted the area beforehand, or setup all those surveillance drones", or whatever.  Because that's what a secretive terrorist organization would do: be experts at intel.

and  Smug,  I am not going to listen and argue with another turian councilor  becuase he refuses to see things in plain sight and actually puts forth the effort/brain power to connect an few dots and make an few leaps and bounds. It's not unhealthy and it's fun to do especially when you later find out you were correct.

I'm guessing you meant "smud".

I wish I could see the things in plain sight that you do.  Again, this is not a muder-mystery story, there shouldn't be anything to deduce.  All I could deduce was that there was going to be a land war in Asia, because there was no cause, explanation, exposition, or clear reason why we're getting these people, save Mordin.

#380
Atrumitos

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I also agree with the OP. Other than that, judging from the last page, it's a good thing I never read the other 14 of the thread... lol

#381
Dudeman315

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Nightwriter wrote...

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

In the end, isn't all this bickering pointless, one way or another? We're not providing constructive criticism, just flaming each other. I'm personally just curious to see how people respond. Image IPB

Edit: But just to be constructive, there are certain objective statements we can pull out. Like it or not, it is 'true' that Bioware has said a dead Shepard cannot be imported. It is also true they are the ones developing ME3. Whether that decides how things play out is still in dispute.



When it comes to proof, it doesn't get much better than Bioware's personal say so
. If they say you can't import a dead Shepard into ME3, I'm inclined to think you can't import a dead Shepard into ME3.

But again, that's my opinion. :P




Restarting a character, with all of his attributes, weapons and perks, at
the beginning of the game is sometimes called "new game plus." Mass Effect had
it, but Mass Effect 2
won't.
Preston Watamaniuk, the lead designer for Mass Effect, addressed the
question today on Bioware's forums, and the explanation has as much to
do with Mass Effect 3 as it does with Mass Effect 2.

Posted: Saturday, 27 June 2009 05:46AM

The short answer is no.
The reason is progression. We have been working very hard to make
sure we design the abilities system to offer smooth progression into ME3
from ME2. Allowing double progression on characters makes that almost
impossible. We have to have reasonable knowledge about where a character
could end up finishing all content on a playthrough. We also want to
offer choice of character build within specific classes.
We replaced that feature with playing after you were done because it
preserves progression and allows for smoother downloading of PRC.

I'd say "smooth progression into ME3," means that whatever happens to
your character in this game, you'll have the option of inheriting him or
her in the next. Otherwise, being able to play after completion will
have to suffice if you're looking for replay in Mass Effect 2.

ME2 has a new game plus so no bioware's word this far out is not good enough, since they have already gone back on it in ME2.  Only when ME3 comes out if it comes out can we define a fact.  People can say that they will do anything and even intend to do it but for some reason not do it.  I'm going to buy food tomorrow is not true unless I actually buy food tomorrow if I for some reason get free food and don't buy food the above statement  is not true.  Facts are true statements. Why do I even have to have this argument? This why so much science has theories, because they are not provable as facts just the best most supported guesses.

Thanks for at least realizing it's an opinion!

Edit 1: Place quotes in their proper places

Modifié par Dudeman315, 13 avril 2010 - 12:50 .